furever_pit wrote:I have seen way too many nice, strong, confident dogs come out of situations where the breeder didn't go above and beyond to expose them to everything under the sun. ALL puppies will get a certain amount of socialization simply because of where they are housed and needing to be led outside to go to the bathroom. Certainly they will wander around outside and climb on things, go under things, etc etc. To me that is "normal".
On the other hand, I have seen people put a litter of pups in a shed and turn on strobe lights, shake clatter sticks, push hula hoops with caution tape on it around. Then there are those who start turning puppies upside down and whichever way before the dog's eyes are even open. I mean seriously? I just don't think it is necessary.
I still don't know why y'all are hung up on presuming that I don't trust my breeder.
furever_pit wrote:I still don't know why y'all are hung up on presuming that I don't trust my breeder. My conversations with him prior to going to get the pup, and while we were evaluating the dogs, has literally nothing to do with the socialization debate. I knew about the pups before I got up there, and I knew he had picked out two that he thought would be a good match for me and for his program. Did it play a part in my final decision? Absolutely. But in the end it was my decision.
furever_pit wrote:I still don't know why y'all are hung up on presuming that I don't trust my breeder. My conversations with him prior to going to get the pup, and while we were evaluating the dogs, has literally nothing to do with the socialization debate. I knew about the pups before I got up there, and I knew he had picked out two that he thought would be a good match for me and for his program. Did it play a part in my final decision? Absolutely. But in the end it was my decision.
I knew about the pups before I got up there, and I knew he had picked out two that he thought would be a good match for me and for his program.
furever_pit wrote: My desire to see a pup in its raw form is not about me not trusting a breeder. It is about me wanting to see the genetics being represented in the dog, not the effects of socialization.
Whether or not you think a breeder who is not going *above and beyond* to do these kinds of socialization exercises with their pups is a good breeder is really of no consequence to me. I have seen enough very nice dogs that don't go through this type of exercise to know that a truly good dog doesn't need it.
Does this mean that I would not consider getting a puppy from someone who does all these socialization exercises? No, because that would be silly.
This kind of has me confused on one hand you have said that you want to see a pups firsts on the other that you are fine with getting a pup sight unseen and taking the breeders word for it. Can you clarify for me?furever_pit wrote:I actually have no problem getting puppies sight unseen. There are two planned litters I am looking at for late 2011 or 2012 that I would not go see. I would lay eyes on the pups for the first time when I picked them up at the airport after they had been shipped in cargo. Now talk about a good test for a pup!
TinaMartin wrote:This kind of has me confused on one hand you have said that you want to see a pups firsts on the other that you are fine with getting a pup sight unseen and taking the breeders word for it. Can you clarify for me?
furever_pit wrote: The breeders I consider are pretty proven. They know full well what they are doing.
furever_pit wrote:Gator was an outcross.
An outcross is even more of a crap shoot than a tighter breeding.
Gator was also the first dog I bought. Live and learn...and I have.
furever_pit wrote:Honestly, I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you guys.
I just don't think that a truly good dog *needs* to be crazy socialized. I've seen enough to prove that to me.
furever_pit wrote:In what litter?
Cairo's litter?
They are all in working homes and I have not heard anyone complain about any sensitivities, environmental or otherwise.
amazincc wrote:furever_pit wrote:Gator was an outcross.
An outcross is even more of a crap shoot than a tighter breeding.
Gator was also the first dog I bought. Live and learn...and I have.
What is an outcross? I'm not a "working dog" person, so most of the time I have NO idea what you're talking about unless you explain it in "regular people" terms.
And, literally, what happened to Gator? I miss seeing his goofy little face around here.
furever_pit wrote:In what litter?
Cairo's litter?
They are all in working homes and I have not heard anyone complain about any sensitivities, environmental or otherwise.
TheRedQueen wrote:I'm not talking specifics...if I did, I'd say "Cairo's litter". I'm talking in general...a litter that is un-socialized heavily as young puppies...what happens with those puppies that aren't fantastic working dogs. As Tina said there are no perfect litters.
mnp13 wrote:Even outcrosses should be planned. And again you either trust your breeder or you don't. Someone evaluated Gator, and didn't do it right or didn't tell you the truth, or didn't bother to see if he had noise issues, or something.
furever_pit wrote:I just don't think that a truly good dog *needs* to be crazy socialized. I've seen enough to prove that to me.
mnp13 wrote:furever_pit wrote:I just don't think that a truly good dog *needs* to be crazy socialized. I've seen enough to prove that to me.
And again... what is crazy socialized??
Loud noises, strange flooring, a little adversity... how is that "crazy"??
It is very well known that puppies have fear stages. Their brain falls out their ear and all of a sudden the couch is a mortal enemy bent on the destruction of that puppy and all it knows. So... if you do your "don't do anything with the dog until I see it" evaluation and it happens to be in a fear stage, how would you know? The next week, that same puppy could be ready to take on a suited decoy... and the week before might have been the same. The ONLY person who would know that is the person who has been socializing and working with the puppy from the first day.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users