click click click click click

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Postby mnp13 » September 9th, 2006, 9:41 pm

Ruby has almost learned her FIRST real trick! We spent training time today with her learning to spin around. I haven't introduced the command yet though.

It was REALLY funny because up until now, all of our clicker work has been for her to touch things - hats, the touch stick, whatever. So she ran all over the living room trying to figure out what to touch to get me to click. She was pouncing on cat toys, yanking on the clothes that are hanging on my bike, bumping into my coffee table and camera bag. She was a mad woman. She didn't get the "turn" part for a while. She kept running at whatever she looked at last when I clicked. The funny part was the head whip turns. She goes up on her back legs and throws her head around to make her spin. She spends the entire time barking at me. she inhales her hotdog pieces - literally - and then coughs them up while she's barking. Occasionally they go shooting across the room. Such a lady.

Riggs and I are only working on the stand. He and I had a serious "misunderstanding" almost three weeks ago and now have one hell of a fear/dominance issue going on. I stack him, click treat. Adjust his feet, click, treat. Reach under him, click, treat. Touch his belly, click, treat. Lift him up, get growled at, bonk the snot out of him, put him down, do it again, click, treat. Re-adjust his feet, click, treat. He sits, I re-stand him, he gets mouthy, he gets bonked, he shuts up, I straighten his head, click treat. ... Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat. We are just reinforcing behavior, not shaping it, so it's one click one treat, no jackpots. I don't want him offering anything up. He got much better, but that's going to be our training for a couple of days until we can stack with no talking back and no hackles.

He didn't get my hand a single time either. I think we may just be past that particular hurdle, with food anyway. Toys are a different matter and will be addressed separately, though we made some excellent strides last weekend at the seminar.
Last edited by mnp13 on September 9th, 2006, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Marinepits » September 9th, 2006, 9:45 pm

Pretty cool -- sounds like you're making some good progress!
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Postby Romanwild » September 10th, 2006, 11:46 am

I have been getting D&D to do variable things. Just for fun. Diamond has learned down this week. She knew beg but now I have her stand all the way up like a human. lol

Wilkes told me to click and treat Dreyfus's monkey dog cries. It was far out enough that I knew it would work. He told me it would take a few sessions of clicking and treating the whines then it would diminish. When it got down to a very low frequency then bonk him and it would go away.

Well....

I did one 3 minute session and it has stopped! :o No more crying when I leave. No more crying when he's in the crate and I'm at my desk working. It just stopped. It's been 6 days now. It's incredible.

I've been going out at night when I walk them and I bring the bonker. No prong. A couple of sessions and they walk on a loose leash. I have been working on that for 3 years. A couple of bonks and Dreyfus walks next to me.
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Postby call2arms » September 10th, 2006, 12:18 pm

This is very interesting, but what the hell is a bonker?
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Postby Romanwild » September 10th, 2006, 12:39 pm

A rolled up towel held together with rubber bands used for corrections. Mark the behavior with a stern "NO" then deliver the bonk. Either throw it or bonk them with it.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 10th, 2006, 2:28 pm

Is there a video of that anymore? I read how he taught a dog to stop jumping in just three bonks...that would be a dream for me!
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Postby mnp13 » September 10th, 2006, 2:38 pm

It took about 10 for Riggs to stop lunging for the toy in my hand... but he's 75% better now.
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Postby Romanwild » September 10th, 2006, 6:11 pm

I don't know about the video but I'm even happier since this morning.

I don't enjoy the act of bonking but I love the results.

I guess I bought into the PP thing morte then I thought. :| PP isn't fair to a dog. Like Gary said PP has killed more dogs then anything else.
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Postby Pitcrew » September 10th, 2006, 7:42 pm

I have to say...
Its very interesting the different things the two of you have gotten from the same seminar and how you have applied it.
The different ways to positively create and stop behaviors... and a simple, fair, and safe way to correct difficult problems. All of his suggestions have helped to solve different problems. Even though both of you were skeptical (and I have to admit I didnt think you would do some of the things he said) but you both committed, and did it... and it worked... or is in the process of working. Huh. :o
Thats a nearly 100% success rate. :| Is this, or is this not a really fun and interesting way to train? (said with extreme bias)
Dont cha love it?

Its really fun watching people learn... Dogs too. :D
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Postby mnp13 » September 10th, 2006, 9:47 pm

yes, it's interesting... though it can get very frusterating as well.

watching Ruby charge all over the living room was really funny. If it didn't look like a tornado hit it, I would video her antics and post them. lol
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Postby Romanwild » September 11th, 2006, 10:51 am

On September 10 2006, Lisa wrote:I have to say...
Its very interesting the different things the two of you have gotten from the same seminar and how you have applied it.
The different ways to positively create and stop behaviors... and a simple, fair, and safe way to correct difficult problems. All of his suggestions have helped to solve different problems. Even though both of you were skeptical (and I have to admit I didnt think you would do some of the things he said) but you both committed, and did it... and it worked... or is in the process of working. Huh. :o
Thats a nearly 100% success rate. :| Is this, or is this not a really fun and interesting way to train? (said with extreme bias)
Dont cha love it?

Its really fun watching people learn... Dogs too. :D


You're refering to Michelle and Patrick, right?

I've always been on board with Gary and marker training. You know that though.
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Postby mnp13 » September 11th, 2006, 11:01 am

Connor isn't taking to clicker training at all. Once her realizes where the food is coming from he sits and tries to jedi mind trick you in to giving it to him. We're going to try a few different things, but we'll see.
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Postby Pitcrew » September 12th, 2006, 8:57 pm

Yea Charles, but Michelle is learning a DIFFERENT training method... YOU are learning to really understand it.
I think you really have to commit to this method and practice it for awhile before you really start to understand its complexities. You are getting there.
You also knew about "bonking" before... but now you have a better understanding of the effective use of it.
We all took different things away from the same seminar, based on our experience, and understanding of these methods.

Cool. :wink:

Michelle, try carrying Connor's food around all the time. Training or not. He needs to learn that obsessing gets him nothing. But the opportunity to be rewarded can happen at any time. NOT just training time. Rewards need to become a little less novel. Start rewarding him for behaviors performed only in a calm focused way. Dont think of his excitement as drive... think of it a an inappropriate obsession.
He thinks the best when he is calm and focused on the task. He CANNOT focus when he is excitable.
When you are training any animal anything... you are either sensitizing, or desensitizing to rewards (its nice for a dog to be sufficiently motivated by something, without being obsessed to distraction)... or sensitizing or desensitizing to punishment (responsive to correction without shutting down). Some people think these traits are partially or completely hereditary or inborn in temperament. But these things can be, and are, constantly affected by the talent and experience (or lack there of) of the trainer. For better, or worse.
You can chose the perfect working dog for you, based on those traits and how you shape them. You are limited only by your comitment. What an ideal working dog would be to an enthusiastic but inexperienced novice trainer... is not the same that a very experienced competition trainer might look for, or need.
A dog I might choose to work with might be a very difficult animal to keep happy as a pet, to an inexperienced owner. Another nice mellow pet might prove to be a brilliant untapped worker, if motivated properly.

I own a variety of temperaments (all GOOD) ... I like to dabble. :D
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Postby rockermom » September 12th, 2006, 10:32 pm

Great to hear that you are having fun with it Michelle. I got the idea that you hated the clicker training idea. I enjoy playing the box game with Rocky. Have not done it in a while but with winter comming we will probably get back to it to keep him busy. ROcky has learned many tricks with clicker. I have not done the bonking thing. But he is scared poo of pilows flying through the room (kids tossing pillows to each other).
And yes there is a video my dad has gary wilkes videos was suppose to bring home with me last time I visited with him in the spring. So next time I see him I will try to remember and let ya know how it is. I would love to post article about the box game from clean run agility magazine. but It is on my computer not on a website so if anyone is interested I can email it jus let me know.
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Postby mnp13 » September 12th, 2006, 10:41 pm

On September 12 2006, 22:32, rockermom wrote:I got the idea that you hated the clicker training idea.


I hate "clicker nazi's' and far too many clicker trainers fall into that catagory.

Marker trainer is fine. The clicker is a marker. It's the stigma that goes with the little plastic box with a metal tab that makes me nuts.
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Postby rockermom » September 13th, 2006, 6:29 am

Ahh I get ya. I sure dont over use it cause Im a spaz and could not handle it and tended to click at wrong moment.
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Postby Malli » September 15th, 2006, 5:44 am

Aren't tricks fun michelle?!

I have SO much fun with Oscars because I don't really correct, he'll either get the treat or not, and sometimes I reposition him or guide him; so its pretty well all fun.

We'll start to run through our repetoire of tricks and he'll start to anticipate and get blinders on for the actual trick commands I give him (its our constant neverending battle :lol3:) then he'll start madly flailing about doing any number of tricks he thinks I might want. Last time I ran him through some of his tricks, he had a slow death(bang, "dead dog"), barked a ton, circled instead of rolled, and I almost fell over laughing. We are SO out of practice, but it was too cute, and it wouldn't take long for us to freshen up on his trick skills.

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Postby katiek0417 » September 15th, 2006, 5:52 am

On September 12 2006, 9:41 PM, mnp13 wrote:
On September 12 2006, 22:32, rockermom wrote:I got the idea that you hated the clicker training idea.


I hate "clicker nazi's' and far too many clicker trainers fall into that catagory.

Marker trainer is fine. The clicker is a marker. It's the stigma that goes with the little plastic box with a metal tab that makes me nuts.


I'm with you Michelle, though I will be using some clicker training with the new puppy coming (soon, hopefully). Nothing crazy, just basics so he has some house manners (and doesn't drive me nuts)....I like the idea of the bonker, but what are the chances that Greg will actually let me use it?
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Postby mnp13 » September 15th, 2006, 11:01 am

On September 15 2006, 05:52, katiek0417 wrote:I like the idea of the bonker, but what are the chances that Greg will actually let me use it?


um... whose dog is it again? :wink:
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Postby katiek0417 » September 15th, 2006, 9:14 pm

On September 15 2006, 10:01 AM, mnp13 wrote:
On September 15 2006, 05:52, katiek0417 wrote:I like the idea of the bonker, but what are the chances that Greg will actually let me use it?


um... whose dog is it again? :wink:


who lives at my house? (and yes I owe you sushi) :wink:
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