How do I stop this?

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby Mind_doc » July 5th, 2006, 4:51 pm

My 1 yr old Boston Terrier and 9 mo old ABPT get along like brother and
sister, laterally. They play together, sleep together, and seem lost
with out each other. We always thought is was so cute how they would
tug, chase, and play ruff and how my ABPT would be so careful and gentle
not to hurt his little sister. Last week I began to notice cuts on his
neck and a nice gash on his face. She is starting to play a little TOO
ruff, and still, he is so gentle and careful with her. I think its
great that he recognizes that its play and has not become aggressive at
her, in fact his tail waggs and he keeps looking for more. I would like
to hear opinions on this. On one hand, do I let "kids be kids" and accept
the bumps and bruises? On the other, should I try to stop a potential
problem before he does get fed up and start bitting back? If I do need
to stop this, how would I go about doing it?
User avatar
Mind_doc
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 71
Location: North Carolina

Postby Big_Ant » July 5th, 2006, 5:19 pm

OK, First thing.

Wagging Tail DOES NOT mean that the dog is happy. It's just a bodily function. If you've ever seen a dog fight (any breed) you will usually see one or both of the combatants with tails wagging crazy.

This is a huge misconception by a lot of people, and leads to tons of problems. "Oh, he's not mean, he's wagging his tail, LOOK!"

Second. Seeing as you have two dogs of extremely differing sizes, I would say that you need to get a handle on them and not let this continue. All it takes is for the Boston to take a good nip at your APBT and him/her think it's business, and you will be one dog less.

As for a solution, I think that making sure the dogs have a solid DOWN is the key, along with them having a SPOT. Whenever I've had dogs that liked to get a little rough, and I didn't want it to continue, I would always yell for them to GET TO YOUR SPOT and they would separate, go to their spot, and go into a DOWN. Once they've calmed themselves down and aren't figgity (sp?) then I let them back up. If they go right back to it within the next few minutes or so, I immediately crate or remove them into a place where they can't interact with each other or anyone. Sort of a form of TIME-OUT

Just as a side-note, I do let my APBTs get a little rough. When both are APBTs that is. Only supervisored, and nothing must escalate. Just my personal way of doing, and definitely not for everyone.

- Anthony
User avatar
Big_Ant
Enlightened Bully
 
Posts: 1743

Postby mnp13 » July 5th, 2006, 6:48 pm

good post Anthony.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby katiek0417 » July 5th, 2006, 6:48 pm

Big_Ant wrote:OK, First thing.

Wagging Tail DOES NOT mean that the dog is happy. It's just a bodily function. If you've ever seen a dog fight (any breed) you will usually see one or both of the combatants with tails wagging crazy.

This is a huge misconception by a lot of people, and leads to tons of problems. "Oh, he's not mean, he's wagging his tail, LOOK!"

Second. Seeing as you have two dogs of extremely differing sizes, I would say that you need to get a handle on them and not let this continue. All it takes is for the Boston to take a good nip at your APBT and him/her think it's business, and you will be one dog less.

As for a solution, I think that making sure the dogs have a solid DOWN is the key, along with them having a SPOT. Whenever I've had dogs that liked to get a little rough, and I didn't want it to continue, I would always yell for them to GET TO YOUR SPOT and they would separate, go to their spot, and go into a DOWN. Once they've calmed themselves down and aren't figgity (sp?) then I let them back up. If they go right back to it within the next few minutes or so, I immediately crate or remove them into a place where they can't interact with each other or anyone. Sort of a form of TIME-OUT

Just as a side-note, I do let my APBTs get a little rough. When both are APBTs that is. Only supervisored, and nothing must escalate. Just my personal way of doing, and definitely not for everyone.

- Anthony


Anthony, you make some great points in your post, and is exactly how I handle things in my house.

I let my lab and my malinois play together....and, yes, they get rough with each other....but as long as it doesn't escalate too much (no blood drawn, my lab yelping too much), I'm okay with it.
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby Big_Ant » July 5th, 2006, 6:58 pm

You own a lab and a malinois? Oh . . . You poor child!

LOL
My wife mentioned last night that she seen someone selling PitXMal pups. I told her that those pups have got to be some of the ugliest and most loveable, bite your ear off pups in the world.

I actually despise Labs, Goldens, and Germans, but the Malinois is a little more appeasing to me, but they are a toss up from what I've seen. You've either got an excellent dog, obedient, great attitude, loves to work, OR . . .

You've got a dog that will do what it wants, not release a sleeve until you drag it to the parking lot, get out a break stick, have two people hold the dog, and pry it's mouth open, while smacking it with a stick (TRUE STORY FROM A SCHUTZHUND GROUP I WENT TO)

- Anthony
User avatar
Big_Ant
Enlightened Bully
 
Posts: 1743

Postby Magnolia618 » July 5th, 2006, 7:26 pm

One of my pit bulls and my shih tzu get along great! The shih tzu (who is up in Vermont at the moment) was basically raised by the pit bull, so he can put up with alot. They wrestle all the time, and they both get rough. Just make sure that you supervise them very closely.
“Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated.â€
User avatar
Magnolia618
I live here
 
Posts: 2435
Location: Onion, VT

Postby pocketpit » July 5th, 2006, 10:00 pm

My wife mentioned last night that she seen someone selling PitXMal pups

Not to get off topic but I've seen two dogs of that cross and suprisingly enough both were quite attractive. My favorite was the one that favored the Pit in looks but both were nice looking and good workers. The Pit Bull must have mellowed out the Malinois because neither one was a whacko.
User avatar
pocketpit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1201
Location: WA

Postby katiek0417 » July 5th, 2006, 10:58 pm

Big_Ant wrote:You own a lab and a malinois? Oh . . . You poor child!

LOL
My wife mentioned last night that she seen someone selling PitXMal pups. I told her that those pups have got to be some of the ugliest and most loveable, bite your ear off pups in the world.

I actually despise Labs, Goldens, and Germans, but the Malinois is a little more appeasing to me, but they are a toss up from what I've seen. You've either got an excellent dog, obedient, great attitude, loves to work, OR . . .

You've got a dog that will do what it wants, not release a sleeve until you drag it to the parking lot, get out a break stick, have two people hold the dog, and pry it's mouth open, while smacking it with a stick (TRUE STORY FROM A SCHUTZHUND GROUP I WENT TO)

- Anthony


Anthony,

You'd be surprised if you saw my lab. She's all heart. She does bitework (and she's not too bad at it)...not because she particularly WANTS to...but because it makes ME happy. She has awesome obedience. Her problems are ME...NOT her. Even my trainer says I have something very special in her.

My mal is, well, a mal. She's 11 months old...and pure energy. She jumped a 6-foot fence yesterday. She, too, though is all heart. And a sweetheart....

I have another mal on order, but I don't think he'll be around until next year....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby muse » July 6th, 2006, 10:44 am

Big_Ant wrote:
Just as a side-note, I do let my APBTs get a little rough. When both are APBTs that is. Only supervisored, and nothing must escalate. Just my personal way of doing, and definitely not for everyone.

- Anthony


Well said. I do the same.
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
User avatar
muse
Confident Young Bully
 
Posts: 544
Location: Maryland

Postby toomanypitties » July 6th, 2006, 1:05 pm

I have 2 Pits (Bastian and Bella) and a Boston (Boscoe).
I worry about this as well. Boscoe the Boston chases after the big dogs when they are running and he bites on their ears. If my aim is on and I hit him with the squirt bottle that will usually snap him out of it.

One time Bella must have accidentally hurt Boscoe because he bit her for real on the face. It was only a split second, but I heard his growl, looked over, Boscoe was attached to Bella's face and she was just looking at me like "what the hell does this little dog think he's trying to do". She has no reaction to it whatsoever. It still got me thinking about what could happen so I am much more diligent about correcting Boscoe when he's getting out of hand and always closely supervising his play.
We made the mistake of coddling him because he's a small dog and now he thinks he runs the show (with the dogs anyway) so I'm working hard to put him back in his place. It's hard though....cuz he's so freaking cute!!!
Some mistakes we made....letting Boscoe sleep with us....letting him worm closer to us than the other dogs....picking him up too much....just babying him in general.
How we're working to correct it.....stopped doing the things listed above! :D
toomanypitties
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 41
Location: Northeast Ohio

Postby Mind_doc » July 6th, 2006, 4:21 pm

First_ We are right there with you TOOMANY. We often said that they made Bostons so cute so their owners don't kill them.

Now for the update. We started to correct our Boston for playing too ruff. I know this is going to be an uphill battle, simply due to the times we are not around. So yesterday Bella starts getting ruff with Hannibal, I pull her off, give her a stern NO! and notice.. a red ring on her arm???

Could it be the "nice gash" on Hannibal's face could be......TO THE VET!

Took them both in at the same time. The black light on Hannibals face lit- up green, indicating positive for fungus, most likely ringworm. The other spots did not but the vet couldn't rule out they were not ringworm infected spots that were healing. So now they are both on FULVICIN tabs.

The vets conslusion was that the skin from where she was biting him became suceptable to the fungus. As they still play and lick eachother, she did not recommend a topical ointment.

ok..now I'm all itchy
User avatar
Mind_doc
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 71
Location: North Carolina

Postby Big_Ant » July 6th, 2006, 4:56 pm

Just a suggestion, but make sure that you don't rely on NO too much.

You should get this to the point that the dogs' all know the limitations of what you allow, and you shouldn't/don't have to say it. If you never get out of using it, then it becomes more of a 'We can do what we want until she says NO', instead of them thinking, 'Let's not get too rough, cause that's her limit'

The former would cause you to have to always be there to break it up, they should get to the point that they know when to stop.

- Anthony
User avatar
Big_Ant
Enlightened Bully
 
Posts: 1743

Postby cheekymunkee » July 6th, 2006, 5:28 pm

Mind_doc wrote:First_ We are right there with you TOOMANY. We often said that they made Bostons so cute so their owners don't kill them.

Now for the update. We started to correct our Boston for playing too ruff. I know this is going to be an uphill battle, simply due to the times we are not around. So yesterday Bella starts getting ruff with Hannibal, I pull her off, give her a stern NO! and notice.. a red ring on her arm???

Could it be the "nice gash" on Hannibal's face could be......TO THE VET!

Took them both in at the same time. The black light on Hannibals face lit- up green, indicating positive for fungus, most likely ringworm. The other spots did not but the vet couldn't rule out they were not ringworm infected spots that were healing. So now they are both on FULVICIN tabs.

The vets conslusion was that the skin from where she was biting him became suceptable to the fungus. As they still play and lick eachother, she did not recommend a topical ointment.

ok..now I'm all itchy


You aren't leaving your dogs alone together when you are not there are you?
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

Debby
User avatar
cheekymunkee
I Have Your Grass
 
Posts: 28540
Location: Dallas

Postby ParisStreetPitCrew » July 12th, 2006, 9:00 pm

cheekymunkee wrote: You aren't leaving your dogs alone together when you are not there are you?


Exactly what I was thinking
User avatar
ParisStreetPitCrew
Devoutly Bully
 
Posts: 845
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Postby bahamutt99 » July 17th, 2006, 11:36 am

We're watching a wild child mixed breed for a while, and I've been monitoring the play closely. If both dogs are out, I shut them in the bedroom/office area where I'm at 99% of the time. When play gets too rough, I usually say "enough!" in a firm voice. (Firm meaning I holler.) And if that is not enough to tone down the play, both dogs go to their crates. Idea being, if you can't play nice, you can't play at all.
~~~
[b]Lindsay
[i]& the [url=http://www.freewebs.com/bahamutt99/index.htm]Gravity Dogs[/url][/i][/b]
User avatar
bahamutt99
Confident Young Bully
 
Posts: 513
Location: west Texas

Postby Knomad » August 16th, 2006, 2:27 pm

These are only my views from my own experience and knowledge. I offer them only to be helpful and am glad if they are of any use to anyone. Im sure many other people have different views.

For me its time out and a scolding.

To be honest the bitch often plays rough, its in their nature. kaya is the same with Moto from time to time she went through a period with her baby teeth of scraping the hell out of him.

I let them play and I let them roughhouse because its healthy in pups, theu learn limits and they learn bite and agression inhibition. if I even hear things getting too rowdy or the bites a little to bullyish, I say me termination lines and time out both of them.

For me its "ya ta!", in spanish meaning DONE, its over, thats enough. When i say that it means my previous council hasnt been heeded and the game ends.

I have good results with this, they are VERY good playing together, all day long rolling around and its VERY rare now at five months I need to cool them off.

Dont get triwtchy, dogs can play rough as boot nails and sound like they are half killing each other and yet not leave a mark on them.

Tail wagging is a good sign IF you know how to tell a wagging tail from a rigid tail thats wagging with movements. The hipslinger wag of the tail is always playtime. The dogs tail will become ridig when its tense and its ears will pull back. generally this will be acoompanied by some verbal frowling that sounds a bit more like, BACK OFF, in doggy language.

Its a good thing to watch your pups for hours and hours while they play, read their body signs and get to know them very well. After a while you will see the difference. Now if I hear a louder growling I might go through the house and peek at them, see their body language is happy and larry and go back about my business.
With a male and female who have been together a long time, its rare that they will hurt each other really badly. Generally fights break out over little things and they are no more than a scrape and snarl because neither actually wants to hurt the other, just to get them to stop doing what they doing.

You have to let them have their fun, watch for bad manners, snapping over food and bones and that sort of thing and dont allow it. Dogs allowed to be rude to other dogs and people generally develop problems later after a year or two.

So many poeple I know with pits reach 1 year or 12 months and their dog turns into a very different animal. In almost every case its because the dogs hasnt learned to deal with situations properly so when he or she becomes adult he makes bad choices when situations occur.

I see myself as coach and moral guide for them at this age, I council them on the limits and I help them understand whats ok and whats not. I expose them to many many situations and other dogs, I let them rough and play because its vital for them to experience these situations and learn the various ins and outs and what to do when things get rough.

Dont shield the dogs from these scenarios as pups, monitor them and coach them on the limits of how they should respond so when their older, they will realise that "rip him to shreds" isnt the way to deal with an annoying dog.
Knomad
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 47
Location: Argentina


Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]

cron