Obedience FAILURE! (She bit the Trainer!!)

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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 7:43 pm

We took Jaida (and Charlie) to her first obedience class tonight. It was a complete failure. It was a small group class, Charlie was so well behaved and got along with everyone (including other dogs) perfectly. Jaida and I had to stay in the corner the whole time. We tried walking in a circle around the classroom, and she wouldnt walk, but lunged forward as if she was ready to attack the people ahead of us, all the way around. She got close enough to one dog and lunged at it and nipped its snout. She got close enough to a dog behind us and went for its leg. I am not confident that she was doing this in a playful way, it just seemed alittle more tense than it is when she plays with Charlie. I really dont know how we will ever socialize her if we can trust er within feet of another dog.

The trainer realized that we were having some problems and came over to speak to us, as soon as she went to acknowledge Jaida.. Jaida lunged up and BIT HER! There wasnt blood, and the trainer took immediate control of her.. but it scared the crap out of me, and Im sure everyone else in that room.

I was so stressed over this whole ordeal when we walked out, my husband and I were on the verge of divorce! We argued the whole way home, he kept telling me it could have been a 'freak' accident.. and when I snapped back.. He said.. "shit happens". I was smurfing IRRATE! I kept asking him if he'd think the same thing: "shit happens" if she REALLY got ahold of someone next time and his ass was charged for it. If this was anyone else she would have bitten.. we wouldnt have been walking out of there without a lawsuit on our hands.

As most of you know.. we just got Jaida a couple of weeks ago. We know she was set to be euthanized 2x in the past, and has been through 9+ homes in the past year. We dont have any other background information on her, so Im not sure what to do at this point. What if she's been known to bite before?

I know the first response to a dog biting is 'it needs to be put down'.. but Im not sure if I can live with that guilt. Not to mention, I signed one hell of a contract when we adopted her.
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Postby SisMorphine » August 1st, 2006, 7:48 pm

Find a trainer who has had plenty of experience with dogs who have bitten, or dogs who have been bounced around the way she has, and rehabbing them. Your normal pet dog trainer most likely won't be able to sufficiently help you out.
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Postby BigDogBuford » August 1st, 2006, 8:17 pm

I have no good suggestions for you. A dog like that would scare the crap out of me, too. She's a pitty, right?
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Postby Romanwild » August 1st, 2006, 8:18 pm

I don't know what to say....

Didn't you get rid of your last dog because you didn't want a dog aggressive dog? Or something like that? Now you have one that might be human and animal aggressive?

You've got a situation on your hands now.

Listen, I'm in your backyard. We have a club full of people that would be willing to help you. I offered when you joined the board.
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Postby Magnolia618 » August 1st, 2006, 8:20 pm

was it possible that it was an accident? That she was excited and lunged and the hand got in the way? :|

I'm really no help either :| What did the trainer say?
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 8:46 pm

Yes, she's a pit. (full we think, can never tell these days without papers)

Romanwild wrote:I don't know what to say....

Didn't you get rid of your last dog because you didn't want a dog aggressive dog? Or something like that? Now you have one that might be human and animal aggressive?

You've got a situation on your hands now.

Listen, I'm in your backyard. We have a club full of people that would be willing to help you. I offered when you joined the board.


We rehomed Brock for a couple of different reasons. Mostly because we were advised that having 2 males in the home might become a problem down the road. We didnt want to chance aggresion being so unexperienced with the breed (at the time), so we decided to rehome him with the inlaws as an only dog.

Ive been interested in your club, I dont believe you ever got back to me with details on how to join and what it is exactly. Ive thought many times, to invite you out and use you for your experience with my dogs.

Magnolia618 wrote:was it possible that it was an accident? That she was excited and lunged and the hand got in the way? :|

I'm really no help either :| What did the trainer say?


Oh yeah, its possible that it was an accident, but there wasnt any playing or anything to initiate it. The trainer came over, sort of leaned over to acknowledge Jaida, and she lunged up (jumped, feet off the ground) and bit her. The trainer went into dominance mode, grabbed her snout and said NO until she was in a down. Then told me Id better stay in the back corner, and we were lucky it was her and not someone else. :sad2:

Afterwards she did suggest we bring Jaida in for one on one training with their trainers, but god forbid this happens again! They do deal with pits, infact a couple of the trainers told me they own pits themselves.
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Postby msvette2u » August 1st, 2006, 9:15 pm

9 + homes!? :shock: It sounds like you just took on someone else's (9 others!) problem, I'm sorry to say that.

Just kind of an aside, and to let you know how this can happen to anyone, I took a border collie/aussie type dog who "bit", but I also knew it was in that breed to nip. I listened to them describe how she bit and it did sound like the "normal" heel nipping and yes she did that. But she also bit the garbage collector one day when I was at work and I had to buy him a new pair of boots.
Long story short, when you have a dog with a history of biting, you can get into alot of trouble very fast. Back then, biting dogs were not a huge thing so nobody sued me. But it could have been alot worse.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 1st, 2006, 9:17 pm

Anissa, call me. PM me if you need my # again.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 9:33 pm

Ive been calling you all night Liz.. you havent picked up :P

Call me.
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Postby mnp13 » August 1st, 2006, 9:46 pm

anissa wrote:Afterwards she did suggest we bring Jaida in for one on one training with their trainers, but god forbid this happens again! They do deal with pits, infact a couple of the trainers told me they own pits themselves.


I don't know if it was aggression or lack of manners, but you need to get this under control now. First - where are you taking her for training and what credentials do the trainers have?

I know the first response to a dog biting is 'it needs to be put down'.. but Im not sure if I can live with that guilt. Not to mention, I signed one hell of a contract when we adopted her


I'm not, and never have been, on that particular wagon. You adopted this dog knowing that she had been through 9 homes in a year. Did you think that she was going to be an angel? You took her on with all the information you needed, and it is your job to take care of the problem now.

You got rid of your puppy because of aggression that may or may not have ever surfaced. Jaida may have plenty of dog aggression herself - you're going to have to accept that and find a trainer qualified to teach you to deal with it.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 9:46 pm

msvette2u wrote:9 + homes!? :shock: It sounds like you just took on someone else's (9 others!) problem, I'm sorry to say that.

Long story short, when you have a dog with a history of biting, you can get into alot of trouble very fast. Back then, biting dogs were not a huge thing so nobody sued me. But it could have been alot worse.


My biggest question now is.. why was she in so many different homes? Why was she scheduled to be euthanized (besides the obvious, of not having any homes left to go to). Unfortunately, both Liz and the lady who rescued Jaida, cant get any information/history out of the previous rescue, so we're unsure of her past, whats happened in other homes, if she is known to bite, etc.
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Postby mnp13 » August 1st, 2006, 9:48 pm

anissa wrote:My biggest question now is.. why was she in so many different homes? Why was she scheduled to be euthanized (besides the obvious, of not having any homes left to go to). Unfortunately, both Liz and the lady who rescued Jaida, cant get any information/history out of the previous rescue, so we're unsure of her past, whats happened in other homes, if she is known to bite, etc.


your biggest question now????

I'm assuming you knew that she had been bounced around this much before you took her in?
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Postby SisMorphine » August 1st, 2006, 9:56 pm

mnp13 wrote:
anissa wrote:My biggest question now is.. why was she in so many different homes? Why was she scheduled to be euthanized (besides the obvious, of not having any homes left to go to). Unfortunately, both Liz and the lady who rescued Jaida, cant get any information/history out of the previous rescue, so we're unsure of her past, whats happened in other homes, if she is known to bite, etc.


your biggest question now????

I'm assuming you knew that she had been bounced around this much before you took her in?

Don't forget, part of the job of someone who is trying to place a dog (rescue, shelter, original owner) is to play up the good and leave out the bad . . . sell the dog. Some of these people have an amazing way of making a dog like that sound all rosy and sweet and that the rehoming was all just unfortunate coincidences, or unfit homes, but they don't address the real issue for fear that A) no one would want the dog or B) they would actually have to make the decision to put the dog down.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 9:57 pm

mnp13 wrote:I don't know if it was aggression or lack of manners, but you need to get this under control now. First - where are you taking her for training and what credentials do the trainers have?


We are taking her to 'A Doggie Doo' near the base. I am sure Charles knows and/or can vouche for them.

You adopted this dog knowing that she had been through 9 homes in a year. Did you think that she was going to be an angel? You took her on with all the information you needed, and it is your job to take care of the problem now.


No.. I absolutely didnt expect her to be an angel. I fully expected to deal with many problems she'd have, especially considering she's been through so many homes and probably never properly trained. I knew that she was a very vocal and hyper dog.. those ARENT the immediate issue.. the issue is her biting humans!


You got rid of your puppy because of aggression that may or may not have ever surfaced. Jaida may have plenty of dog aggression herself - you're going to have to accept that and find a trainer qualified to teach you to deal with it.


At no point have I ever mentioned that I do not accept that she is or may have dog aggression, those are issues I can work with, and keep under control. But like I said.. my issue is with her being human aggressive!
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 10:04 pm

mnp13 wrote:your biggest question now????

I'm assuming you knew that she had been bounced around this much before you took her in?


Yes.. my biggest question now.

Honestly.. I had no idea she was placed in so many homes, until a couple of days before she arrived. I read her rescue page that said she was in ONE home where the owner was arrested and Jaida was rescued before being euth'd. Then I was told that she was through a couple of homes. THEN I was told she was through 9 homes in the past 6 months (all by different people). At that point, we had already agree'd to take her in and assumed based on the information we were given, that she was set to be euth'd again ONLY because there were no more homes for her.

Ive never questioned her being through so many homes, even with having to deal with her reactive behavior, her hyperness.. or her barking. These are ALL issues I can work with, and these being the reasons she was passed through so many homes, either didnt cross my mind.. or I didnt care that someone else probably just didnt have the patience to work with her. But after watching her BITE someone.. you bet that the question of why she's been passed around so much.. could be because she has biten before.
Last edited by anissa on August 1st, 2006, 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 10:09 pm

SisMorphine wrote:Don't forget, part of the job of someone who is trying to place a dog (rescue, shelter, original owner) is to play up the good and leave out the bad . . . sell the dog. Some of these people have an amazing way of making a dog like that sound all rosy and sweet and that the rehoming was all just unfortunate coincidences, or unfit homes, but they don't address the real issue for fear that A) no one would want the dog or B) they would actually have to make the decision to put the dog down.


Exactly!

However.. I do not believe that Liz or Shana were 'playing up' Jaida to fool someone into adopting her. Unfortunately they have tried getting as much information on her from the previous rescue, to no avail! The previous rescue wont even give Shana Jaida's rabies certificate and tag. So they gave me the only information they had.

If you read the original post on Jaida (Domino) you'll read that there has been alot of political drama between the two rescues.. It is because of this that we cant get ANY previous information on her.

Now.. please dont come at me with: "why did you take her in if you didnt know anything about her" because the answer is simple.. she deserved a chance, and a chance is what we have been giving her.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 10:17 pm

mnp13 wrote:your biggest question now????


I'd like to rephrase...

my question now is: is human aggresion the reason she was bounced around?

Which Id like to add, that had we asked this question before we took her in, we would have gotten a solid answer 'NO' for the exact reasons Sis mentioned.
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Postby mnp13 » August 1st, 2006, 10:18 pm

How do you know she's "human aggressive"? She jumped up and nipped the trainer who bent over her. She didn't lunge at her snarling and snapping.

I've been nipped/bitten by Riggs more times than I can count. Most recently was this past weekend at the DSO when he got me in the face, arm and boob. All were results of a dog in drive and handler error. They had nothing to do with "human aggression".

I would suggest you find out the credentials of the people you are going to now - and if their experience is not what you need, you need to find another trainer.
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Postby anissa » August 1st, 2006, 10:24 pm

mnp13 wrote:How do you know she's "human aggressive"? She jumped up and nipped the trainer who bent over her. She didn't lunge at her snarling and snapping.


I don't know if she is human aggresive. I havent labeled her as so either, so please dont put words in my mouth. I am more concerned that she MIGHT be.. and finding a way to deal with it.. than stamping her as such and getting rid of her.

And you may want to reread what I originally posted.. She DID lunge up at her (feet off the ground), growled and snapped right onto her!
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Postby SpiritFngrz » August 1st, 2006, 10:28 pm

Is it possible she nipped because the trainer got in the way and Jaida was re-directing at her because she wanted those other dogs? That could be way off, I'm just thinking- I wonder if this would've happened if she wasn't so driven by the other dogs being in the room.
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