Dog temperments ..

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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 12:11 pm

Ok , i'd liked to be explained to in the different temperments ...

Ok to me Dottie was shy and timid when I first met her , which to me is that she was not sure of herself, you could tell she had a lovely personality but due not not being treated correctly as a tiny pup and showed how to do things ..

I was able to hand feed her when I first got her...

Oh she was just a joy to teach hehe


To me a dog with not so nice temperment should be reconsidered ....

Maybe in my mind what I think one way is , is another ....

Also I think her first Foster should not be allowed to be a foster ... :shock:
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 12:44 pm

If we are talking strictly about evaluation of dogs going into adoptive homes or rescue programs, the evaluator has to make recommendations based on what behavior is seen at the time of the eval. If a dog is showing generally fearful behavior, that is incorrect and I'd be worried about such a dog developing fear aggression issues, if they didn't already have them.

Just to point to a real-life example, a rescue I worked with had a sweet as pie, adorable, lovable tiny little female who I fell in love with at first sight. However, she was shy, fearful even. Ended up getting placed and fear-bit someone. She was returned just to sit in the kennel for another long period of time. Shy/timid/fearful dogs don't do well sitting in kennels. This dog should never have been put up for adoption to begin with, let alone after she already bit someone and was returned.

You have to weigh everything out: WHAT behavior is the dog presenting with at the time of the eval? Not WHY is he presenting it. Because really, "why" is just all guesswork. If I believe a dog is truly fearful, not a little shy because of a lack of socialization, but truly fearful/timid, I strongly advise NOT to place such a dog in an adoption program. Even if the dog is not out-right fear-aggressive, sitting in a kennel or a crate in a foster home for lord knows how long, is NOT going to help but only make the dog worse. And that's no way to live.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 12:48 pm

Ok ... I see where your coming from now :) thanks for explaining to me ...

I seen a male "Pitbull" down at Petsmart at one of the other rescue place, he was in a crate , and he would lunge every time he seen another dog coming his way ... I called and questioned on that one , to me that male shouldn't even begin to be considered to be adopted out .

And your right that's no way for any animal to live ...

I was rather ticked off when I heard about Dottie's story , to me that 1st Foster should NOT be any where near animals nor fostering ..

When I found out that person wanted to have Dottie put to sleep, I started to cry my eyes out ... but that was after I had her for like oh 6-7 months and Jennifer told me that ... im to soft hearted .. :cry:

I know there is a time and place for them to be put down , but oh boy , if we could start at the grassroots and have dogs spayed/neutered we'd might not have to be where we'd have to decide who needs to be put down ...
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Postby Maryellen » January 27th, 2006, 12:54 pm

having a dog lunge in a crate toward another dog is not disqualification for adoption. some dogs dont show well in crates, or kennels.. once the dog comes out, that is usually how they are tested.. CAN they be managed around other dogs in a normal setting? will they respond to the person holding the leash? will they need alot of training? are they just coiled with energy from crating or are they off the wall dog aggressive? who can manage a dog like that? is the dog after a while easier to manage??? was the dog socialized at all? etc

mary evaluated a pit pup at a local shelter by me.. i went there to help her.. out of the pits she evaluated there were 2 that did not pass.. we were there for about 2 hours .. its a time consuming process that has to be done right so you dont make any mistakes..
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Postby Jp » January 27th, 2006, 12:56 pm

Emi wrote:Ok ... I see where your coming from now :) thanks for explaining to me ...

I seen a male "Pitbull" down at Petsmart at one of the other rescue place, he was in a crate , and he would lunge every time he seen another dog coming his way ... I called and questioned on that one , to me that male shouldn't even begin to be considered to be adopted out .


Why shouldn't that dog be given a chance and adopted out? It sounds like dog aggression, something we have to be realistic about with our choice of breed. If he was doing to that to people I could see your concern.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 12:57 pm

Yes, and oops forgot to say that Carlos said that he's a great dog , great temperment, just he didn't do well in crates, i have to much on my mind .. forgot to add that ...my mind is just all over the place today ...
Last edited by Emi on January 27th, 2006, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 12:59 pm

Goes back into my hole and gives up ...
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Postby Jp » January 27th, 2006, 1:02 pm

Emi wrote:Does back into my hole and gives up ...


no need to give up. I am sure dogs with dog aggression require more work and training so the aggression can be controlled. Most likely, they just need a special owner who is responsible enough to put in the extra effort and time.
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Postby mnp13 » January 27th, 2006, 1:04 pm

In my opinion it all depends on the dog and what you are willing to do with it.

Ruby was very very timid when I got her. she had been kenneled for the first 10 months of her life. She was very afraid of men and shied away from hand contact from any strangers. She warmed up to men before women. When approached quickly she would back up, and on occasion would growl and even more rarely would bark. Loud sudden noises, especially from men (dropped keys, a sudden yell) would send her running backwards.

She picked me out when I met her, she knocked me down and sat on me. Literally. I couldn't leave her behind, but the fear issues started the minute she was in a strange place - my house.

We have worked on confidence and she has made HUGE strides since then. It has taken over 3 years. She's a therapy dog now, but she still has some 'startle' moments.

Would she have become a fear biter in the wrong circumstances? Yes.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 1:06 pm

Dog-aggression and human-aggression are two different things. Remember that dog aggression is normal in Pit Bulls. Also, a dog in a crate isn't in a fair position to be evaluated as far as dog-aggression goes. Lots of dogs are snarky towards other dogs while confined or behind a fence, but are ok once they are taken out.
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Postby concreterose » January 27th, 2006, 2:57 pm

What about dogs that are crate aggressive? At my training club, there is a dog (boxer) that gets highly agitated if someone he doesn't know comes near his crate. He will bark and lunge. Open the door, and he's a total mushball. They just cover up his crate, and are working on desensitizing him.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 3:04 pm

Can I take the dog out of the crate and NOT have it bite me? Or is it so freaked out while in the crate that only the owner/regular handler can remove it? I'm talking about dogs I have to eval, ya know? In shelters or at kennels for rescue. If the dog is bugging out in a crate or a kennel, I certainly won't approach it, and if I can't approach the dog it fails test one, and therefore the whole eval.

I wouldn't tell the owner of a Boxer that is cage-aggro to euth. the dog.
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Postby mnp13 » January 27th, 2006, 3:06 pm

With the exception of me and Demo, Connor will injure anyone who sticks their fingers in his crate. He's been like that since day one. Crate aggression is not unheard of in any breed. The dog knows there is no way out if you try to hurt it. The best defense is a good offense, so they figure if they keep you away they are safe.

A friend of mine had his Pit Bull stolen out of his crate. That was the only thing gone in the house - his pet. It's not much of a stretch to imagine where that dog ended up.

He now teaches extreme crate aggression in all of his dogs. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Postby Romanwild » January 27th, 2006, 3:54 pm

mnp13 wrote:He now teaches extreme crate aggression in all of his dogs. That's not necessarily a bad thing.


Or he could have used a pad lock. :shrug:

Question for the rescue people.

Why try to adopt out dog aggressive dogs when so many non dog aggressive dogs are pts every year?
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Postby Maryellen » January 27th, 2006, 4:03 pm

i have been lucky, every dog i have adopted out has been non dog aggressive.. i have not had any dog aggressive dogs yet.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 4:14 pm

Romanwild wrote:
mnp13 wrote:He now teaches extreme crate aggression in all of his dogs. That's not necessarily a bad thing.


Or he could have used a pad lock. :shrug:

Question for the rescue people.

Why try to adopt out dog aggressive dogs when so many non dog aggressive dogs are pts every year?


That's like asking BC people, "Why rescue the prey-driven dogs that like to herd people if there are atypical, non-drivey dogs available??"

Pit Bulls are a dog-aggro breed. I don't fault normal dog aggression. If dog aggression was a problem for me, I'd have another breed. And so should anyone else.
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Postby mnp13 » January 27th, 2006, 4:20 pm

Romanwild wrote:Or he could have used a pad lock. :shrug:


in which case the crate would proably have just been lifted and removed with the dog. if a dog tries to rip you apart through the crate, I doubt you're going to mess with it much.
Romanwild wrote:Question for the rescue people.

Why try to adopt out dog aggressive dogs when so many non dog aggressive dogs are pts every year?


Because you can't predict if the dog is going to turn on or not. You should not own a Pit Bull if you are not willing to deal with a dog aggressive dog. Frankly you shouldn't own a dog if you are not prepared to deal with dog aggression.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 4:23 pm

mnp13 wrote:He now teaches extreme crate aggression in all of his dogs. That's not necessarily a bad thing.


I don't think my AmStaff would protect himself if someone tried to steal him. I can't imagine teaching him "extreme aggression" so that he'll tear someone to shreds if someone were to try to steal him. That's something that has always been a problem with this breed: they get stolen because they are soooooo people friendly.

BTW, does your friend show/compete? And if so, how does he deal with extremely crate aggressive dogs at events?

It's weird that the two "big" traits in this breed - dog-aggression and human-friendliness - are the two things people always want to change. "I don't want a dog-aggro Pit Bull", or "I want a human-aggro Pit Bull that will protect me or itself". It's just something I could never wrap my mind around.
Last edited by realpitbull on January 27th, 2006, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 4:25 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Romanwild wrote:Or he could have used a pad lock. :shrug:



Because you can't predict if the dog is going to turn on or not. You should not own a Pit Bull if you are not willing to deal with a dog aggressive dog. Frankly you shouldn't own a dog if you are not prepared to deal with dog aggression.


:bowDown:

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby mnp13 » January 27th, 2006, 4:31 pm

realpitbull wrote:I don't think my AmStaff would protect himself if someone tried to steal him. I can't imagine teaching him "extreme aggression" so that he'll tear someone to shreds if someone were to try to steal him. That's something that has always been a problem with this breed: they get stolen because they are soooooo people friendly.

BTW, does your friend show/compete? And if so, how does he deal with extremely crate aggressive dogs at events?


A lot of perfictly friendly Pit Bulls go nuts when someone knocks on the door or rings the doorbell. It's a conditioned response. Connor is very good with people, but not when he is in the crate.

Yes, the dogs go to dog trials, it's not a hard thing to manage - you keep people away from the crates. I don't think it is unreasonable to tell people to leave your dog alone in the crate.

Personally I think people are NUTS who even approach a strange dog in their crate. It is a disaster waiting to happen.
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