Cuda's sessions this weekend. Video (Dial-Up Beware)

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby Cuda » June 5th, 2006, 11:21 am

Thanks alot all. The compliements are REALLY appreciated.

Sis- I know you heard "No" a few times. And i have to say as much as i learned from Chris's seminar i think im going to continue using my "No" as a negative marker in a way. When Chris asked me to define "no" as it would mean to my dog i was dumbfounded. But after thinking about it and after using it for so long i think i have an idea of what it means to him. I am going to continue cleaning up the rest of my commands though and make the communication alot cleaner and simpler. Ill throw him a hug for ya.


Kymn25- Thank you very much ill give him a huge hug for you too.

Hoyden - Yeah i have been practicing a little passing the leash around my back but i still go alot over my head. Especially when the sleeves are around. When the sleeves are around i dont want to take a chance on the leash getting free. And one millisecond of the big boy pulling and the leash if its not held tightly is gone. Also thats a good idea with the squirt gun.

Malli - Thanks. Oh my GOD does he want that sleeve. The bitch for him was though is he didnt get the sleeve too much in those sessions if at all. I wanted him to realize that the sleeve doesnt always mean you get a bite (Thanks Chris).

Roman - Thank Bunches man.

Maryellen - We're trying :) Thanks :) seeya soon at some of our local events.

pitbullmamliz- Thanks. You should see the k9-sts problem solving seminar video. Then youll see him lunging. What you see in the video i posted is a passive dog comared to what it was. Yeah him tripping was quite cute. one thing it did show was his attention to me rather then the sleeve though.

Chris- Thanks bro. Cant wait to get up there for some more training.

Blitzkrieg - Yeah well you know.. I have this little guy complex i have to kick the crap out of my dog on a regular to feel good about myself.

Had you known how the dog was trained up till this point and really how 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections. Maybe you would understand. Otherwise you are more than welcome to kiss my heiny.

Patch - Thanks alot. Yeah he is huge. And yes i plan on competing with him.

Ellie - Thanks.

Miakoda- He truly is a beast. Right now with a little bit of winter weight which we are wokring off hes about 97lbs. Were working a few pounds off though.

Thanks again all. Much appreciated..

Seeyas around.

Bryan and Cuda
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Postby dogcrazyjen » June 5th, 2006, 12:33 pm

Hey Cuda, nice job on the video.
He is a very handsome dog! And I liked the do-se-do leash flip :twisted:

I have a question. Do you consider the sleeve an object of play drive which needs to be used as a distraction to get control? Do you ever use it as the reward for good behavior in these exercises (like after the vid let him have one since he did so well trying to ignore them?)

When you corrected for looking at the sleeve, but sitting in heel position, and saying HEEL, do you consider heel to be in position AND looking at you?

Thanks, Jen
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Postby Blitzkrieg Staffords » June 5th, 2006, 1:33 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Blitzkrieg Staffords wrote:Way to choke the s!@# out of your dog! :clap: A classic sign of some really excellent training. :wink:


Oh look, a classic sign of a forum troll.

I though you left and were never coming back?


Yeah well...this place is like a car accident, ya know? People don't really want to look, but sometimes you just can't look away. Besides, the amount of ignorance posted here is extremely entertaining.
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Postby Blitzkrieg Staffords » June 5th, 2006, 1:35 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
mnp13 wrote:
Blitzkrieg Staffords wrote:Way to choke the s!@# out of your dog! :clap: A classic sign of some really excellent training. :wink:


Oh look, a classic sign of a forum troll.

I though you left and were never coming back?


Don't you LOVE it when people post these drama queen, leaving in a huff, stomp, stomp, stomp posts.............then come back. Bwahahahaha!!


Don't you love it when obese women laugh at their own jokes. :wink:
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Postby Blitzkrieg Staffords » June 5th, 2006, 1:39 pm

Cuda wrote:Blitzkrieg - Yeah well you know.. I have this little guy complex i have to kick the crap out of my dog on a regular to feel good about myself.

What an fanny you are. Had you known how the dog was trained up till this point and really how 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections. Maybe you would understand. Otherwise you are more than welcome to kiss my heiny.


Blitzkrieg - Yeah well you know.. I have this little guy complex i have to kick the crap out of my dog on a regular to feel good about myself.


That much is obvious. :D

What an fanny you are. Had you known how the dog was trained up till this point and really how 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections. Maybe you would understand. Otherwise you are more than welcome to kiss my heiny.


So, let me get this straight, 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections, so you just toss in 2% of hey let's choke the crap out of the dog to make it a complete 100%? Fantastic! :clap: What an excellent handler you are, and what an exceptional trainer you must be working with. :|
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Postby cheekymunkee » June 5th, 2006, 1:40 pm

Blitzkrieg Staffords wrote:
cheekymunkee wrote:
mnp13 wrote:
Blitzkrieg Staffords wrote:Way to choke the s!@# out of your dog! :clap: A classic sign of some really excellent training. :wink:


Oh look, a classic sign of a forum troll.

I though you left and were never coming back?


Don't you LOVE it when people post these drama queen, leaving in a huff, stomp, stomp, stomp posts.............then come back. Bwahahahaha!!


Don't you love it when obese women laugh at their own jokes. :wink:


ALright cutie pants, you have been warned for the LAST time. You are now gagged.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

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Postby Maryellen » June 5th, 2006, 1:52 pm

for those that never met cuda and his dog, i met them last year at a shelter event.. the transformation that has been done with his obedience from last year to this video of him looking at his owner is amazing as far as i am concerned. now i dont know how he got him the way he did, but from watching them at the shelter event a year ago to this, i am very impressed at the attention and heeling.. i dont know what he did, or how, but being someone who saw him at the event, watched him being walked around, i can say that he has improved DRAMATICALLY from last year.
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Postby a-bull » June 5th, 2006, 1:54 pm

Did the angry guy get banned? :?
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Postby mnp13 » June 5th, 2006, 2:01 pm

a-bull wrote:Did the angry guy get banned? :?


Stafford has a history of trollish behavior on every board that I have ever seen him on. He is not banned, however he can not post at the present time.
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Postby a-bull » June 5th, 2006, 2:09 pm

Got it.

Just trying to understand "the system" here . . .
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Postby mnp13 » June 5th, 2006, 2:13 pm

a-bull wrote:Got it.

Just trying to understand "the system" here . . .


I'll explain it this way - Stafford has been on a couple of boards I have been both a member on and on the staff of. He tends to say nothing unless it is rude and nasty, including vicious attacks in PM's.

We let him join, just like everyone else he came in with a clean slate. Then he left in a huff, and now he only returns to make snotty comments on random threads.

He is no longer welcome here.
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Postby cheekymunkee » June 5th, 2006, 2:16 pm

mnp13 wrote:
a-bull wrote:Got it.

Just trying to understand "the system" here . . .


I'll explain it this way - Stafford has been on a couple of boards I have been both a member on and on the staff of. He tends to say nothing unless it is rude and nasty, including vicious attacks in PM's.

We let him join, just like everyone else he came in with a clean slate. Then he left in a huff, and now he only returns to make snotty comments on random threads.

He is no longer welcome here.


The ONLY contribution I have EVER seen him make ( and I have run across him on about 5 other boards) is name calling & insults. That's it.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

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Postby Cuda » June 5th, 2006, 4:13 pm

Jen- I wish it was as simple as just play drive when it comes to the sleeve. He has tons of drive period not so much prey as the others but its there. But when it comes to the sleeve he's driven out of his mind, its outrageous. He has some serious fight drive. He doesnt just hit the sleeve and tug on it. He wraps his front paws around the decoy and fights for all hes worth. add in alot of play drive, and some defense (which i didnt want introduced so early in his training but the first decoy he worked with was inexperienced and went right to defense.) and you have him when he see's the sleeve.

As for using the sleeve as a distraction and reward yes we use it for both. being that the sleeve gets him soooooo worked up using it for a distraction works wonders. theres nothing else he wants more than the sleeve. and as for the reward side, i would like to use it as a reward more often but i do not own a sleeve and wont until i have a clue about using one correctly. so im kinda at the mercy of the other trainers and helpers i work with. when he does get to hit the sleeve thought it is as a reward for obedience. In those couple of clips you saw i was showing him that just becuase the sleeve around doesnt automatically mean he gets to bite it.

All my commands include the looking at me part of it. Heel to us means in position right at my left leg and looking at me. Teaching him to look at me all the time was done by not rewarding ANY behavior unless he was looking at me. Wheter that meant waiting a few more seconds for him to finally look up at me or waiting a few minutes for him to get confused thinking he had done the excersies and was waiting for a reward or another command and would look up at me for instruction or reward. Be it a heel, sit, down anything, doesnt matter he must look me in the eye before reward or praise is given. (I know you know this stuff jen i was posting this for the people who may be looking for advice on such a thing). The corrections he was given during the heel excercies we not for not watching me in the heel it was for focusing on the sleeves although you can only see a few scattered around in the crappy vid there had to be at least 20 of them around the area where we were working.

I cant correct him for not eyeing me in the heel becuase of my inconsistancies as a trainer. I KNOW that sometimes ill verbally praise him or reward him without him looking at me. And thats just beucase sometimes i reward too late, or im not paying complete attention to what im doing, and on top of that sometimes im just an idiot. I created that problem so i have to deal with it not the dog.

Adios for now
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Postby Cuda » June 5th, 2006, 4:16 pm

Blitzkrieg Staffords wrote:
Cuda wrote:Blitzkrieg - Yeah well you know.. I have this little guy complex i have to kick the crap out of my dog on a regular to feel good about myself.

What an fanny you are. Had you known how the dog was trained up till this point and really how 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections. Maybe you would understand. Otherwise you are more than welcome to kiss my heiny.


Blitzkrieg - Yeah well you know.. I have this little guy complex i have to kick the crap out of my dog on a regular to feel good about myself.


That much is obvious. :D

What an fanny you are. Had you known how the dog was trained up till this point and really how 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections. Maybe you would understand. Otherwise you are more than welcome to kiss my heiny.


So, let me get this straight, 98% of his obedience was truly done WITHOUT any corrections, so you just toss in 2% of hey let's choke the poop out of the dog to make it a complete 100%? Fantastic! :clap: What an excellent handler you are, and what an exceptional trainer you must be working with. :|



umm yeah i wont be responding to this.. Not worth my effort.
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Postby dogcrazyjen » June 6th, 2006, 8:46 am

I cant correct him for not eyeing me in the heel becuase of my inconsistancies as a trainer. I KNOW that sometimes ill verbally praise him or reward him without him looking at me. And thats just beucase sometimes i reward too late, or im not paying complete attention to what im doing, and on top of that sometimes im just an idiot. I created that problem so i have to deal with it not the dog.


Don't be so hard on yourself- we all can miss things and screw up timing on occasion! I don't think you HAVE to correct for no eye contact-just reward well FOR eye contact, and you should eventually get it.

I did see a difference in how we train, which I found interesting. You put the dog in the middle of lots of distractions, and correct the mistakes. I would have put the distractions far enough away that I didn't have to correct, then work slowely towards the distractions. Both work, just different approaches.

Great explainations. I am really trying to get other people's ideas on how their dogs work in protection, few are able or willing to give good explainations as you did. Thank you.

I have done the same as you with attention during heel. It makes it a lot easier long term to not have to spit food at the dog and such if heeling simply means both position AND eye contact.
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Postby mnp13 » June 6th, 2006, 10:31 am

dogcrazyjen wrote:I have a question. Do you consider the sleeve an object of play drive which needs to be used as a distraction to get control? Do you ever use it as the reward for good behavior in these exercises (like after the vid let him have one since he did so well trying to ignore them?)


I wouldn't give him a sleeve reward at the end for ignoring the sleeve during the training. He focused for five minutes on the dog not looking at the sleeves, to end the lesson with the dog getting the sleeve makes the last thing in the dog's head going after the sleeve.
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Postby dogcrazyjen » June 6th, 2006, 10:57 am

Or it teaches him that good things come to those that wait.


I use that method with discs for Jack, we do obedience or agility around the discs, then as a reward he gets to play disc. Keeps the drive going, teaches him that yes I want him to want the disc, but i want him to be able to ignore them as well. Of course I do not correct heavily like Cuda did, I set my dog up to be able to work within his limit so that small corrections if any are needed only occasionally, but we work differently.

I then use this skill (to leave the eventual reward) to be able to do sports like agility where I cannot bring in the reward. He has learned that we leave it, work, then come back to get it. I can put the disc on a fence or car near the course, then after we are done take him out to play. I get consistant, enthusiastic, fast performances.

I do not see how this is counter productive, if you give the dog permission to get the sleeve at the end.
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Postby mnp13 » June 6th, 2006, 11:17 am

dogcrazyjen wrote:I do not see how this is counter productive, if you give the dog permission to get the sleeve at the end.


It all depends on the dog and the training. Cuda is training though serious distraction, giving a reward of the object that he is being told quite strongly to ignore puts that as the last thing in his head. that day (I am guessing) Cuda didn't touch the sleeve.

This is different than teaching "leave it, leave it, leave it, get it, leave it, leave it, leave it, get it" which is fine in its own right but not in this application.

The difference is the focus of the exercise. Cuda appeared to be learning heeling with distraction, not leave it.

On a side note, I agreed with what you were saying until we got into this exact discussion with Chris and he presented it to me the way I put it just now. I hope he'll correct me if I am off base in my interpretation of the "lesson"
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Postby dogcrazyjen » June 6th, 2006, 11:26 am

I can buy that.

I think they are the same thing, but focusing on the positive (heel with distraction), vs the negative (leave it, ie no), but in the end it is -leave the toy and heel with me.


I would think that doing both at different training sessions would give you the most well rounded dog.

Good point.
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Postby mnp13 » June 6th, 2006, 11:33 am

dogcrazyjen wrote:I would think that doing both at different training sessions would give you the most well rounded dog.


I definately agree.
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