Thoughts anyone?

Postby Patch O' Pits » May 19th, 2006, 8:46 pm

That is really horrible. I think like others have said you should document everything keep any e-mails send it all to the rescue and take yourself out of the picture after that . It is really very sad for the pup. He is the one who loses in the long run. :x
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Postby luvmyangels » May 19th, 2006, 9:18 pm

I understand but am sorry you have to go through this. You have a good heart and wanted to help and in the end you are not receiving the respect you deserve. Sorry. Hope things will get better.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 21st, 2006, 12:30 pm

WTF? This is just ridiculous. That foster mother should be smacked. How dare she put her kids in danger like that? How could she not watch the kids with the dog? The dog gave a warning the first time by not drawing blood, the fact that this woman ignored it is her own fault. Too bad it was her kid that got bit and not her, maybe then she would have wised up.

Tell her to contact the rescue directly, and that you will not keep entertaining these phone calls from her if she can't listen to your advice. And I would contact the rescue and scream at them. Tell them this woman is going to get her kids killed if she isn't careful. Maybe the rescue will get scared and listen to you then?

I don't know if I would put the dog to sleep if it is only resource guarding. Is it aggressive in other situations? Does it resource guard with everyone, or just the kids? I have never had a dog that liked kids, so it is hard to say.... Either way, that dog should NOT be with this woman. This is just insane...


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Postby msvette2u » May 21st, 2006, 12:40 pm

I don't know if I would put the dog to sleep if it is only resource guarding. Is it aggressive in other situations? Does it resource guard with everyone, or just the kids?

Well it would have to be NILIF'ed to the HILT - problem is, who will be able to do this with the dog? Most people don't have an idea of the concept. If this can't be done the dog could be a serious danger to the public.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 21st, 2006, 12:44 pm

msvette2u wrote:Well it would have to be NILIF'ed to the HILT - problem is, who will be able to do this with the dog? Most people don't have an idea of the concept. If this can't be done the dog could be a serious danger to the public.

Oh I agree with that. If he can be placed with someone that can start him on NILF, then he probably can improve greatly. But if no such place is available, and he is allowed to continue as he is, then he will become even more dangerous. If the foster he is in now is the only place that can take him, he should be PTS... :(


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Postby rockermom » May 21st, 2006, 5:13 pm

Definately should have never happened. In fact I met this foster and when I saw she had such a little girl, I commented to her... God I always wondered how someone with young children could raise a puppy. With Rocky's energy and tendency to be nippy at 4 mos even sometimes at the face. I could never imagine having a young children and a puppy. I have 11 yr old and 16year old. And that was a challenge. I would never recommend a puppy for families with children under the age of 10. Especially if it is first family dog. I do not condone my 10 yr old getting down on the floor with Rocky. Plain and simple. As a parent I recommend, A FOSTER RESCUE DOG SHOULD NOT BE IN A HOME WITH YOUNG CHILDREN.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 21st, 2006, 5:20 pm

houlabulla? wrote:Definately should have never happened. In fact I met this foster and when I saw she had such a little girl, I commented to her... God I always wondered how someone with young children could raise a puppy. With Rocky's energy and tendency to be nippy at 4 mos even sometimes at the face. I could never imagine having a young children and a puppy. I have 11 yr old and 16year old. And that was a challenge. I would never recommend a puppy for families with children under the age of 10. Especially if it is first family dog. I do not condone my 10 yr old getting down on the floor with Rocky. Plain and simple. As a parent I recommend, A FOSTER RESCUE DOG SHOULD NOT BE IN A HOME WITH YOUNG CHILDREN.

Totally agreed on all counts!

When I volunteered at an animal shelter and people came in looking for puppies for their kids, I would do my absolute best to talk them out of it. Many times it worked and they adopted a docile adult instead.


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Postby satanscheerleader » May 21st, 2006, 5:30 pm

msvette2u wrote:At 4.5 mos. of age, and guarding to the extent that people are getting bit, that dog needs to be PTS. It is my belief that there's too many good dogs without such issues that can be rescued. Why waste your time on one that's got these dangerous tendencies. But that's just my opinion as an ACO. :|


I agree. There are a zillion dogs dying for a chance, literally. It's not worth the risk in my opinion.

There are some foster homes that are capable of handling small children and a puppy. In the right environment it can be a great learning experience for the children and the pup but you have to have someone who is not only experienced but dedicated. Puppies do very well in my home with small children but I am 100% focused on the situation.

I would be reconsidering my involvement with this particular rescue if I was in your place.
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Postby Maryellen » May 21st, 2006, 7:20 pm

once arturo is adopted i am done with this rescue, i only took him as a favor to them, they asked for my help .. if i had known what would go about i would have never offered my home to arturo..

i told the foster to use nilif, and to keep the kids away from the dog when he had toys/bones.. but it fell on deaf ears...
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Postby msvette2u » May 21st, 2006, 7:22 pm

Maryellen wrote:once arturo is adopted i am done with this rescue, i only took him as a favor to them, they asked for my help .. if i had known what would go about i would have never offered my home to arturo..

i told the foster to use nilif, and to keep the kids away from the dog when he had toys/bones.. but it fell on deaf ears...


That is so sad. The dog will pay with it's life in the long run, if not now. I hope the child doesn't lose an eye or worse. :x
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Postby hoagiesmomma » May 21st, 2006, 7:35 pm

whether the foster is negligent or not...

children should NEVER be forced to be the victims.



and I agree...a pup that young challenging and biting children?

not good. particularly if he is mastiff mix and is going to be gargantuan.

if he challenges children now...

who will he challenge when he weighs a buck eighty?

the resources and time expended to MAYBE make this dog safe as a pet could be put to use to save how many others?

awful situation all around.

:(
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Postby Maryellen » May 21st, 2006, 8:10 pm

arturo's brother is EXTREMELY dog aggressive, it took me alot of work to get him to behave with my dog present.. he guards toys and bones and has no problems snappig at the children,, he bit the 3 year old girl 3 weeks ago, and the 6 year old son he drew blood.... unfortunately , since the rescue doesnt believe a word i said about mosley and they are listening to the foster mom he will probably be adopted out.. which is very sad....
now arturo has no guarding issues at all, and is good with kids age 6 and up..
as far as a foster home having small kids and fostering, i think it truly has to do with the foster home.. i know stellar foster homes that have small kids, and do great fostering... and i know foster homes that cant disipline or watch their kids who suck at fostering.. its the rescues responsibility to access the foster home prior to the dog going there.. in this case the foster home that took mosley has NO DOG experience at all....

and, to work with a dog that has a number of issues that would have to be strict disipline, nilif, etc is hard enough to find, let alone a forever home.. why let sound dogs die in shelters over one unsound pup?
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Postby msvette2u » May 21st, 2006, 8:15 pm

That's so sad. It's harsh but it is reality. Only the best should make the cut. Too many risks otherwise.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 21st, 2006, 8:24 pm

Maryellen wrote:since the rescue doesnt believe a word i said about mosley and they are listening to the foster mom he will probably be adopted out.. which is very sad....

This particular dog should not be adopted out under any circumstances...

I would report this "rescue" and this foster home to the authorities...


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Postby rockermom » May 21st, 2006, 8:57 pm

I am not saying no fosters should have young children. I am saying I would not recommend puppies to homes with young children. Especially if they dont know what they could be getting into. Better for Rescues to try not to risk placing pups or unpredictable dogs, or unknown how they intereact with kids in homes with small children. Unless they are sure of the home is quite experienced. This particular foster, I believe was thinking of getting a dog and wanted to try fostering first. I hope she has changed her mind about getting a dog untill the kids are older.
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Postby ccc2006 » May 24th, 2006, 7:40 am

Maryellen wrote:because the foster mom is telling the rescue that everything is great.. and the rescue told me that due to conflicting stories from me and her, they are calling everyone involved to get the true story... even the vet and the techs told the rescue that the foster couldnt control the dog or the kids at the visit...and since i have arturo, i have to wait it out w/ the rescue until he is adopted.. mosley can go to a kennel, but right now he is quarantine at the rescue vets office for 10 days due to the bite..and i found out they dont like euthing dogs that bite either.. which i am not saying should happen to mosley, i just want him into a better foster home. to reevaluate him..

The rescue is "calling" everyone to get the true story? What the hell? In a situation like this, whoever is in charge of that rescue should have gotten off their butt and went over there immediately to pull the dog out. This isn't something to toy around with and just make calls to verify stories.
The fact that a resource guarding dominant dog is in with young children is an absolute nightmare. They knew this before placing there? If so, that is completely irresponsible.
The right way to handle this would have been upon evaluation by experienced top members of the rescue and if the dog showed any propensities towards questionable temperament, the dog should only have been placed with one of the members of the rescue that was equipped to handle it and assess from there or pass over the pull altogether.
Now they have a 10 day quarantine bill to foot and the dog is housed with a vet that doesn't like to euthanize? That's just great. No one likes to euthanize but certain conditions warrant it.
On a personal note, I don't fancy the idea of a 4 1/2 month old pup showing such tendencies and a bite under their belt now. Placing that dog is seriously risky and the rescue needs to realize their ass is on the line for any dog they place. The knowledge of a previously recorded bite with quarantine lumps further liability on the rescue. The dog should not be adopted out...that is, unless the founder of said rescue wants to put their house and everything they've ever worked for on the line. With so many in need, that's not a choice I would make.
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Postby Maryellen » May 24th, 2006, 8:14 am

the dog showed no issues at his initial test at the owners house.. the rescue placed him not knowing he would have resource guarding issues, but once they were notified they said they tried to find a new foster home.. but it never happened.. i tried for 3 weeks to get that dog out of there, and i have my emails tothem to proveit.. once arturo is adopted i am done with this rescue, the worst part is they asked me for my help... when i told them what was going on, they didnt believe me because the foster parent LIED and said the dog was doing WONDERFULLLY.... when arturo is adopted i am going to ream them all new assholes, and fully let them know how i feel and what the ramifications are. and the vet has no problem euthing the dog, its the RESCUE that is not wanting too... i found out alot about this rescue in the past 2 weeks, which is not what i like, but to be fair to arturo i have to bite my tongue for now until he is gone.. then, look out , i will show the bitch in me and let them have it
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Postby ccc2006 » May 24th, 2006, 8:30 am

Maryellen wrote:the dog showed no issues at his initial test at the owners house.. the rescue placed him not knowing he would have resource guarding issues, but once they were notified they said they tried to find a new foster home.. but it never happened.. i tried for 3 weeks to get that dog out of there, and i have my emails tothem to proveit.. once arturo is adopted i am done with this rescue, the worst part is they asked me for my help... when i told them what was going on, they didnt believe me because the foster parent LIED and said the dog was doing WONDERFULLLY.... when arturo is adopted i am going to ream them all new assholes, and fully let them know how i feel and what the ramifications are. and the vet has no problem euthing the dog, its the RESCUE that is not wanting too... i found out alot about this rescue in the past 2 weeks, which is not what i like, but to be fair to arturo i have to bite my tongue for now until he is gone.. then, look out , i will show the bitch in me and let them have it

Oh I see. So, it's the rescue that has a problem with euthanasia, not the vet's office. Well, I don't understand that position given these circumstances, but that's their risk to take I guess.
Why in the world would the foster home want to lie about it? That's bizarre considering they were putting their children at risk. Maybe they just can't handle the idea of the possibility of euthanasia, and if so, their opinion on the dog shouldn't count at all. I can't believe you're being questioned over it. Talk about a kick in the ass.
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Postby Maryellen » May 24th, 2006, 8:49 am

the foster home never had a dog or a puppy before ever.. when another rescue member told the sister of the foster home that mosley would be euthe'd if he showed any human aggression , she told her sister who was fostering mosley.. so the foster mom felt bad that mosley would be euthed.. thats why...

the one rescue member agrees with me 100%, as she is the one who asked for my help in the first place..

after dealing with this idiot of a rescue i think i am done with rescueing for a while if not for good.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 24th, 2006, 9:25 am

Maryellen wrote:after dealing with this idiot of a rescue i think i am done with rescueing for a while if not for good.

Nooo! Don't let this one bad place put you off of rescuing! The dogs in need can't afford to lose a foster home like you. :(

Is the vet where the dog is now? Was the bite ever reported to animal control? (I think it has to be if there were injuries?) I would talk to the vet's office yourself and tell them what you know. They might only be getting the story from the rescue's side, and they don't know what really happened. No vet in good conscience should let a dangerous dog go back with this rescue.


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