How necessary do you consider health testing?

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

How important is health testing in a breeding program?

Very important; dogs shouldn't be bred without health testing
26
93%
Not so important; strenous work will show me everything I need to know about my dog's health.
2
7%
If a dog looks good, acts good, and moves good, its healthy enough to be bred.
0
No votes
I don't care.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 28

Postby bahamutt99 » May 22nd, 2006, 12:15 am

Mods, wasn't sure if this belonged here or in the health section. Please move if its inappropriate.

Anyway, there're some interesting discussions going on about this. The prevailing attitude among some is that if a dog can work hard, it is not necessary to run health tests on it prior to breeding. Others -- myself included -- consider health-testing very important to really know what is going on with your dog, aside from what your eyes tell you. (When I refer to health-testing, I'm not just talking about hips. Health-testing can be anything from hips to thyroid, cardiac, patellas, CERF, elbows, etc etc etc.)

What do you think?
~~~
[b]Lindsay
[i]& the [url=http://www.freewebs.com/bahamutt99/index.htm]Gravity Dogs[/url][/i][/b]
User avatar
bahamutt99
Confident Young Bully
 
Posts: 513
Location: west Texas

Postby Romanwild » May 22nd, 2006, 8:22 am

I with you.

The working aspect is just as important though. I don't see why anyone would not health test. :|

I don't buy the arguement that health tests aren't perfect either. Neither is the breeders eye.
User avatar
Romanwild
I live here
 
Posts: 2931
Location: Watertown NY

Postby cheekymunkee » May 22nd, 2006, 12:10 pm

With this breed, I think health testing is a very important tool to be used for breeding and strenous sports such as weight pulling. These dogs are pit bulls, the athletes of the dog world, they will work through pain that would make us roll around on the floor crying for our momma's. Why not use the tools available to you to make sure you only pass on the best?
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

Debby
User avatar
cheekymunkee
I Have Your Grass
 
Posts: 28540
Location: Dallas

Postby Malli » May 22nd, 2006, 12:45 pm

I'm not sure I think any and all health tests need to be done, but definately there are quite a few that seem necessary to me.
I'm 100% that the dog should be able to display great athletic stamina and strength(within their physical capabilities, i.e. brachycephalic breeds etc), I don't care what kind of breed.

Malli
User avatar
Malli
E-I-E-I-O!
 
Posts: 6341
Location: CANADA EH?

Postby babyreba » May 22nd, 2006, 1:01 pm

You know, I still don't understand why people are opposed to doing testing--it's not going to hurt anything to do so. Except maybe your bottom line if your dogs aren't up to snuff . . .

There just aren't any really valid reasons, IMHO, not to do so . . . will they tell you everything? NO. Do they guarantee anything? Of course not.

But they do help weed out some of the dogs that probably should not be bred, they do help ensure that the dogs being bred are not just the prettiest and strongest, but also the healthiest . . .

No matter what argument people use when they explain why they don't health test their stock, it always sounds to me like another way of saying "I don't want to make the time, expend the energy, or spend the money."

Anyone without the time, energy, or money to do so . . . well what the hell are they breeding for?
User avatar
babyreba
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1132

Postby katiek0417 » May 22nd, 2006, 1:58 pm

I will test Sacha before her breeding in November...and will do the same with Nisha when she is 1, and again before we breed her.

While both my girls are being bred for working ability, I want to try to ensure (nothing is 100%) that neither will pass anything on that will cause health problems to offspring (and financial problems for the owner)...

Also, both bitches and studs should have a brucella canis test...it's a bacteria that can lead to abortion of puppies....

I also plan on having a full physical examination on both my girls before EVERY breeding (including a digital vaginal exam to check for vaginal band/stricture)...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby satanscheerleader » May 22nd, 2006, 6:22 pm

I really don't get why someone wouldn't want to use every available tool at their disposal to make sure their line is the best of the best. :|
satanscheerleader
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 692
Location: The Firey Pits Of Hell

Postby DemoDick » May 22nd, 2006, 7:51 pm

Define health testing.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby katiek0417 » May 22nd, 2006, 8:20 pm

satanscheerleader wrote:I really don't get why someone wouldn't want to use every available tool at their disposal to make sure their line is the best of the best. :|


I'm not trying to "make sure [my] line is the best of the best." I'm trying to make sure:

1. I DO NOT put dogs out there with KNOWN health problems;
2. My puppies don't get spontaneously aborted;
3. I DO NOT charge people for dogs that are crap;
4. I DO NOT cause people the heartache of losing a beloved pet because of a health problem I MIGHT have been able to prevent.

That's NOT making "sure [my] line is the best of the best." That's simply being responsible and honest.
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby satanscheerleader » May 22nd, 2006, 8:34 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
satanscheerleader wrote:I really don't get why someone wouldn't want to use every available tool at their disposal to make sure their line is the best of the best. :|


I'm not trying to "make sure [my] line is the best of the best." I'm trying to make sure:

1. I DO NOT put dogs out there with KNOWN health problems;
2. My puppies don't get spontaneously aborted;
3. I DO NOT charge people for dogs that are crap;
4. I DO NOT cause people the heartache of losing a beloved pet because of a health problem I MIGHT have been able to prevent.

That's NOT making "sure [my] line is the best of the best." That's simply being responsible and honest.


My comments wasn't directed at you in any way. Just my outlook on the subject in general. To me, the picture is so much bigger than the here and now, this one litter, this one dog, this one person buying a dog. It's about the breed as a whole, the future of the breed and the hope that dogs 100 years from now are the ultimate testiment to what they should be. Rock solid in body and mind. Health testing can also help with people 50 years from now when they are studying pedigrees. They can actually have documented evidence of the progression of healthy and unhealthy lines. :|
satanscheerleader
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 692
Location: The Firey Pits Of Hell

Postby katiek0417 » May 22nd, 2006, 8:39 pm

satanscheerleader wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:
satanscheerleader wrote:I really don't get why someone wouldn't want to use every available tool at their disposal to make sure their line is the best of the best. :|


I'm not trying to "make sure [my] line is the best of the best." I'm trying to make sure:

1. I DO NOT put dogs out there with KNOWN health problems;
2. My puppies don't get spontaneously aborted;
3. I DO NOT charge people for dogs that are crap;
4. I DO NOT cause people the heartache of losing a beloved pet because of a health problem I MIGHT have been able to prevent.

That's NOT making "sure [my] line is the best of the best." That's simply being responsible and honest.


My comments wasn't directed at you in any way. Just my outlook on the subject in general. To me, the picture is so much bigger than the here and now, this one litter, this one dog, this one person buying a dog. It's about the breed as a whole, the future of the breed and the hope that dogs 100 years from now are the ultimate testiment to what they should be. Rock solid in body and mind. Health testing can also help with people 50 years from now when they are studying pedigrees. They can actually have documented evidence of the progression of healthy and unhealthy lines. :|


I'm sorry...I misunderstood....

I, too, am all for what you suggest...which is why I believe in the health testing....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby satanscheerleader » May 22nd, 2006, 8:51 pm

No prob! :D
satanscheerleader
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 692
Location: The Firey Pits Of Hell

Postby odnarb » May 22nd, 2006, 11:06 pm

babyreba wrote:You know, I still don't understand why people are opposed to doing testing--it's not going to hurt anything to do so. Except maybe your bottom line if your dogs aren't up to snuff . . .



Bingo, it's because people are CHEAP. There is seriously no good reason not to. And if somebody has one, I'm all ears, and probably ready to shoot it down :D
Aimee
Grant the Library Dog
Harry the Hellhound
http://www.odnarb.com
User avatar
odnarb
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 556
Location: Spencer, IA

Postby bahamutt99 » May 23rd, 2006, 12:47 am

DemoDick wrote:Define health testing.

Demo Dick


Bahamutt99 wrote:(When I refer to health-testing, I'm not just talking about hips. Health-testing can be anything from hips to thyroid, cardiac, patellas, CERF, elbows, etc etc etc.)


I don't know how to define better. I was mainly thinking of all the different tests that the OFA offers, but it could also be PennHip. Don't know what else.
~~~
[b]Lindsay
[i]& the [url=http://www.freewebs.com/bahamutt99/index.htm]Gravity Dogs[/url][/i][/b]
User avatar
bahamutt99
Confident Young Bully
 
Posts: 513
Location: west Texas

Postby satanscheerleader » May 23rd, 2006, 1:30 am

vonWillebrands
CERF
Thyroid
Cardiac
OFA/PennHip
BAER for piebald/white dogs
Am I missing anything? :|
satanscheerleader
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 692
Location: The Firey Pits Of Hell

Postby katiek0417 » May 23rd, 2006, 6:49 am

satanscheerleader wrote:vonWillebrands
CERF
Thyroid
Cardiac
OFA/PennHip
BAER for piebald/white dogs
Am I missing anything? :|


Brucella canis....can lead to spontaneous abortions or deformities of the pups...both the stud and bitch should be tested...

I would also just do a blood panel to ensure the health of the bitch before breeding (but that's more for yourself than for people who would buy the puppies)....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby pitbullforever » May 24th, 2006, 1:24 pm

i think health testing and temperment testing among with other types of test should be run if your going to breed.
pitbullforever
Snot Nose Bully Pup
 
Posts: 102
Location: port jervis NY

Postby mnp13 » May 24th, 2006, 1:34 pm

While I agree in theory, I also think that over-dependance on 'health testing' to prove your dog is healthy is a crutch.

"My dog has great hips, OFA proves that" well, does your dog move well? Those are two different things.

I used to be hard line, "you do it this way or no way" on this issue, but I'm seeing more gray area now. Should I ever decide to breed Riggs, I will have some tests done, but probably not the full laundry list. And it has nothing to do with "bottom line" since I don't have the bitch anyway.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby bahamutt99 » May 24th, 2006, 2:44 pm

I don't think our breed has an over-dependence on health testing yet. There are only 800-someodd APBTs in the OFA database (and 3000-someodd AmStaffs). Does anybody know the registration numbers for comparison's sake?

Health testing is an important piece of the whole picture. Ideally, it should be used in conjunction with tests for conformation, temperament, and working ability. Of course, you'll get people who just breed for the show ring saying that working ability doesn't matter since they only breed show dogs. And then you'll get people who breed just for pets saying that temperament is the only important thing. So on and so forth. I don't buy any of that. Give me total dogs or give me... uh nothing.

:poop:
~~~
[b]Lindsay
[i]& the [url=http://www.freewebs.com/bahamutt99/index.htm]Gravity Dogs[/url][/i][/b]
User avatar
bahamutt99
Confident Young Bully
 
Posts: 513
Location: west Texas

Postby Romanwild » May 24th, 2006, 2:55 pm

mnp13 wrote:I used to be hard line, "you do it this way or no way" on this issue, but I'm seeing more gray area now.


What' gray about it.

If you test and don't work the dog. That's not good.

If work and don't test your dog. That's not good.

Work and test. GOOD!

Where' the gray/grey? :wink:
User avatar
Romanwild
I live here
 
Posts: 2931
Location: Watertown NY

Next

Return to Nutrition & Health

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users