dogcrazyjen wrote:I thought that some of the dogs looked like they were working with play drive. The actions were that of a dog which is being controlled through toy drive-smiling, bouncing, wagging the tail furiously, looking furtively at the decoy then back to the handler. The release to bite appeared to be the reward, and the dog was tugging hard. Most bullies I have seen were like this.
Some looked like they were prey motivated, they wanted to hunt down the decoy, upright stance, lunging, stiff, hard glares at the decoy. The dogs when biting were biting forward, not tugging as much. Shepherds tended to look like this.
I am sure there are many drives intermixing, pack drive, protectiveness, prey, play, etc.
But then again, what do I know?
dogcrazyjen wrote:I would be interested in this myself. Corrections on a dog and corrections on a human may feel the same to a dominant dog, but will be labeled corrections on the dog, and aggression on the people.
dogcrazyjen wrote:As I have said before, I do not worry about well trained dogs. I worry about dogs who are half trained and end up in the headlines.
Magnolia618 wrote:Here's a question...
Is a dog who looooves to play "tug" being aggressive? My Maggie sounds nasty when she plays. She growls and tugs and tugs and tugs and whines and snorts and growls some more.
Is she going to attack someone next? She she being an aggressive dog?
My fear with the hitting the dog with the stick during the bite-work is that this is provoking punishment or pain aggression, and that this is therefore not quite a "sport" or "training".
Any thoughts on this?
Nelson wrote:Yes, you are completly off. Learn about it first.
As in all, there is proper training and improper training. Proper training produces a happy, well balanced dog. Seek out the good trainers with proper training techniques and you and your dog will be in good shape.
So what exactly is the purpose of hitting the dog with a stick? Sorry that I'm not seeing it here, and I don't think it is because I am uneducated...
babyreba wrote:I just wanted to add a quick note on aggression, a word that I think a lot of people are stuck on here . . .
"Aggressive" does not always mean violent or vicious. An aggressive dog--a dog that does things forcefully and confidently and without hesitation--is not necessarily a dog that is about to attack.
So Chea's Maggie going to town on a spring pole or a tug toy is tugging aggressively, but it doesn't mean she's doing so in a way that's going to translate into an attack on a human being.
Sis's Wally may be forcefully (ie., aggressively but not violently) correcting another dog in a way that unnerves some people. But that doesn't make Wally a violent or dangerous dogs.
Some level of aggressive behavior--toward prey items, toward work--makes these dogs good at what they do. It's positive aggression, IMHO. If a dog has no aggressive tendency--no desire to get the job done swiftly, forcefully, and efficiently--then that dog isn't going to be good for anything. In my life, I have no need for a violent dog or a vicious dog, but I do want some properly directed aggression to be part of their personalities--it's what makes my old mutt Reba good at protecting her homestead and what makes my terrier/pit mutt pup Tucker good at keeping vermin out of my yard . . .
So let's not deem all aggression as violence. Clearly it's not, and I think a lot of people talking about aggression and thinking about it have a hard time recognizing it as a natural, normal, and healthy part of what a dog is. Violence, viciousness, and unpredictability are what makes dogs dangerous, but aggression not so much.
Nelson wrote:How many dog sport clubs and/or trials have you gone to? Have you seen the type of sticks used in dogsports? Have you seen or read where the decoys or helpers have to hit the dogs?
If you haven't gone and learned at least about 1 of them ..... then respectfully yes, you are uneducated on it as shown in your posts.
LindsaySF wrote:Nelson wrote:How many dog sport clubs and/or trials have you gone to? Have you seen the type of sticks used in dogsports? Have you seen or read where the decoys or helpers have to hit the dogs?
If you haven't gone and learned at least about 1 of them ..... then respectfully yes, you are uneducated on it as shown in your posts.
I know that they hit the dogs. I have seen it. What I don't understand is the purpose behind it. I have asked what the purpose was, and did not get an answer.
It sure seems to me as if anyone who disagrees with this bitework in this thread is labeled as "uneducated" and our questions not addressed...
~Lindsay~
SisMorphine wrote:I think he's trying to say that you're uneducated in bitework, not uneducated in general.
Cuda wrote:The stick used it usually a padded piece of plastic rod in all reality. The sticks are quite flexible and give easily. It really doesnt hurt the dog at all. It really wouldnt even hurt a 10yr old kid. Remeber that the people in these sports have spent TONS of time working and training their dogs. NONE of them want there efforts throw out of the door becuase of an injury that the decoy did with a stick.
In all reality i hit my dog harder slapping him when were playing around. He doesnt mind it, he doesnt even flinch.
Cuda wrote:The stick used it usually a padded piece of plastic rod in all reality. The sticks are quite flexible and give easily. It really doesnt hurt the dog at all. It really wouldnt even hurt a 10yr old kid. Remeber that the people in these sports have spent TONS of time working and training their dogs. NONE of them want there efforts throw out of the door becuase of an injury that the decoy did with a stick.
In all reality i hit my dog harder slapping him when were playing around. He doesnt mind it, he doesnt even flinch.
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