Savagem needs Help with Mother and pups

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby Maryellen » May 17th, 2006, 4:32 pm

Here are some pics of Susie and some of her babies. Image
Image

Image

So, I was asked to take Susie and pups in, even though I have NO experience with young puppies. And I was given ZERO info on how to care for them ahead of time. Susie was loaded with hookworms and roundworms. She has been wormed once, and will be wormed again in another week or so. She is on Wellness Puppy kibble. She has watery diarrhea, and I'm not sure what to do to get rid of it. A raw diet was suggested, but I don't know if another change in diet is the best choice right now? Poor Susie is gonna be hard-pressed to put on weight when the food goes through her so quickly her body doesn't have time to absorb the nutrients. :( Also, her pups are around 5 weeks now, and eat both soaked kibble and canned Wellness puppy without a problem. I'm wondering if they should be weaned, as nursing can't be helping Susie either. Susie is actually going back to my vet on Friday, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice until then?
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Postby a-bull » May 17th, 2006, 4:46 pm

I'd try not to change the Mom's food, unless you think she is having bowel issues as a result of what she's being fed.

"Spritz Fingers" (lol---is that her name on here, I hope)---had oodles of pups at her home and can probably offer some good weaning advice.

I've never had a mom w/pups---just pups . . .

The pups are mad cute---lot of work, though, I know. Hang in there. You'll be glad you did. :)
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 17th, 2006, 4:50 pm

Combining the two threads :wink:



savagem wrote:This is Susie Image

She came from a shelter in Georgia and went to a foster home for a rescue in Buffalo, New York. Two days later the foster home had personal problems and Susie and her pups needed to be moved. So she came to me with her 8 pups. The pups are now about 5 weeks old and are doing great. Susie is still pathetically thin and has horrible diarrhea. She went to my vet about 1 1/2 weeks ago, where she was vaccinated and found to have a HUGE load of hookworms. After I wormed her I saw roundworms as well. She was given Panacur for three days about 1 1/2 weeks ago. I had her on Canidae all-stage kibble when she first came, and her stools were fairly normal. The vet told me she needed a puppy food, so I put her on Wellness Kibble. Since then she's pretty much had watery diarrhea. The "other" rescue recommended a raw diet, but I don't know if I want to get into that right now. Should I put her back on Canidae kibble?

I've been chasing Susie around with a bottle of 1 part bleach to 2 parts water. Her stools are so watery that I cannot possibly pick them up from the lawn, so I pick up as much as I can and then soak the area with the bleach solution. I hope I'm killing whatever might still be in her stool? Puppies have been wormed with Nemex, and will continue to be wormed on a regular schedule. Puppies will accept canned Canidae, canned wellness, and kibble soaked in Esbilac equally well. What is the best diet for them? And since they are eating so well, would it be healthier for Susie if I weaned them now? I know that nursing them is taking huge amounts of calories from her right now. I've gotta go out for the evening, but I'm hoping that I'll have some great advice when I check back in? I hear there are some very knowledable folks here. :) This is the very first time I've ever fostered puppies, so please forgive my ignorance. And I'll be damned if I'm going to turn these sweet babies and their mama back over to the rescue they came from.
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Postby a-bull » May 17th, 2006, 5:02 pm

Here you go . . . I'm going to beat Linky Lindsay, or whatever she was called, lol to a link for you. :) Scrounge around this site for other info. I have found tons of good info. on here.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/whelping.html

Maybe the wormy girl that just joined can help you with your wormy issues?? Yo, wormy girl---Where are you?? Lol . . .
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Postby Patch O' Pits » May 17th, 2006, 6:27 pm

The stool being soft is most likely from the worms if she is otherwise healthy. make sure the pups are wormed asap too because if mama has them so do the pups. Have the pups had a wellness check yet?

How long has she had diarrhea? Is she staying hydrated?

How often are the pups still nursing? I'd call the vet and ask what he thinks about completely starting to completely wean them if mama doesn't start being able to hold food in long. Her getting ill won't be any help to the pups.

Personally I like to let the pups nurse longer , but many seem to totally wean early. 5 weeks isn't too bad especially since you said they are already somewhat weaned off of her. A mama with the runs often passes it to the babies and then you'll literally be in the crap house... so weaning may be the best opotion. I'd give the vet a call and ask his opinion as well

How much are you feeding her now? How often? If she isn't holding the food well mix some PLAIN unsweetened canned pumpkin with the food ... give her small meals 3-4 x a day and see if she holds that better or try boiled chicken and rice also with the canned pumpkin to see if that helps her any.

Here is a link to help you with the other aspects of raising a litter:
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=696

Hope this helps you
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Postby SisMorphine » May 17th, 2006, 6:34 pm

Wally, who normally has an iron stomach, had very bad liquid diarrhea for weeks when I first got him. It all boiled down to the Wellness. Once I switched him from it his stool began to firm up pretty quickly. I spoke with a lot of people and it seems to be half and half as to if their dogs to well on the food. Obviously there's some ingredient in there, or something in the processing, that just doesn't agree with all dogs.

As much as I'm not a fan of Eukanuba, for a few weeks I would feed her the Eukanuba Low-Residue formula to firm up her stools and keep at least some nutrients in her. And once she seems to be balanced out slowly introduce a different kind of high end food. The Low-Res I think is only carried by vets. I really don't support Eukanuba in general, but I'd found this to be the only bland diet food that is fool-proof (more so that Hill's I/D and/or rice and boiled hamburg even).
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Postby a-bull » May 17th, 2006, 6:36 pm

Oh, "Patch-O'-Pits"---I didn't know that thread was here, lol. Thanks. :)
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Postby Patch O' Pits » May 17th, 2006, 8:24 pm

a-bull wrote:Oh, "Patch-O'-Pits"---I didn't know that thread was here, lol. Thanks. :)
I have to ask the mods to make it a sticky for the fosters who have pups and the new puppy owners on the forum :|
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 17th, 2006, 8:32 pm

Patch O' Pits wrote:
a-bull wrote:Oh, "Patch-O'-Pits"---I didn't know that thread was here, lol. Thanks. :)
I have to ask the mods to make it a sticky for the fosters who have pups and the new puppy owners on the forum :|


I'll ask the others what they think! :)
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Postby Patch O' Pits » May 17th, 2006, 9:11 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
Patch O' Pits wrote:
a-bull wrote:Oh, "Patch-O'-Pits"---I didn't know that thread was here, lol. Thanks. :)
I have to ask the mods to make it a sticky for the fosters who have pups and the new puppy owners on the forum :|


I'll ask the others what they think! :)

Thanks :bowDown:
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Postby Hoyden » May 17th, 2006, 11:27 pm

Melanie - Check your PM's. We got worming and vac taken care of for you.
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Postby savagem » May 17th, 2006, 11:35 pm

What? I'm confused. Don't see anything in PM's about the wormings and vaccs? :|
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Postby savagem » May 17th, 2006, 11:40 pm

Just got it. Absolutely awesome! Yes, this would help immensely. Thank you!
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Postby Hoyden » May 17th, 2006, 11:52 pm

The Vet said that is okay to wean the puppies now.

Keep Susie away from the Puppies food as that can contribute to her diarrhea and feed her the Eucanuba Low Residue food to firm up her stools.
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Postby LindsaySF » May 18th, 2006, 1:27 am

Wormy girl and Linky Lindsay are one in the same. And here I am. :) Link theif!! :P

And thankfully the pups are being treated for the hookworm too. The first vet Mel went to wanted to wait to treat them, even though momma Susie was infected. Ummm... hello? The larvae are passed in the breast milk! But I mentioned it to Mel, and she set them straight. :D

I've exchanged emails with Mel on this a little about possible causes for her loose stool, but I think she was hoping that those of you that have fostered a mom and pups before would some additional advice.

Melanie, one thing I forgot to ask you, when did Susie's loose stool start? I just remembered that her stool was nice and solid when I dropped her off with Jenn, even though she was infected with hookworms. So the hookworms probably did not do any permanent damage to the intestines or anything.

Being wormy girl, I was all about the hookworms, but maybe her loose stool is just the result of the food change and not the worms at all? :|


~Lindsay~
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Postby LindsaySF » May 18th, 2006, 1:28 am

Oh, and how are the pups? Any more coughing?

Are you still giving them that filler-laden food that will rot out all their teeth?! You horrible foster mother!! :D


~Lindsay~
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Postby msvette2u » May 18th, 2006, 1:30 am

She has watery diarrhea, and I'm not sure what to do to get rid of it. A raw diet was suggested, but I don't know if another change in diet is the best choice right now?

I wouldn't do that to her right now. Her immune system is too far down to tolerate that.

Has she been checked or treated for either Giardia or coccidia? Watery stools could be a result of either of those infections.

The puppies will be fine weaning at 5 weeks. Of course ideal is 6 weeks or so but this situation isn't "ideal" and if they're eating gruel they'll be fine!

Worm them too, at 6 weeks, which is when they can also be vaccinated.

I just raised a litter who is leaving this weekend (7 weeks old today).
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Postby LindsaySF » May 18th, 2006, 1:54 am

Here are the pics I took of Susie's puppers on Saturday. There are 3 fawn ones, 1 black one, and 4 brindles. Aren't they cute??

I'm a little pissed that I can't access pbsmiles though, because I don't remember who is who! Well, I remember a few anyway... :)

Image Image


Here is little Hammie. Because he looks like a hamster (I don't know, ask Joyce...) You may admire him from afar all you like, but he is MINE!! *evil cackle*

Image Image


The only black puppy, Louie. (Should we change the name Mel? I just don't want you to have bad memories everytime you see him :().

Image Image


I think this one is Sadie (I always get her confused with Spike. Spike's head is bigger and his face is darker right?) Sadie is the only girl in the litter.

Image


Here is Spike (unless this is Sadie? LOL). He is the biggest puppy, and was named by Melanie's son.

Image


And here's the rest of them. I have no clue who is named what! :D

Image Image Image Image



~Lindsay~
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Postby LindsaySF » May 18th, 2006, 1:59 am

Susie already had a fecal exam done and they found hookworm eggs. She was put on Nemex.

Mel, I think you said roundworms came out too. Did they see roundworm eggs in the fecal sample, or just hooks? If the first vet is the one that did the fecal, I'm not sure I would trust his/her diagnosis...

Let me know if you want me to do a fecal for you. I'll look for giardia and coccidia.


~Lindsay~
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Postby LindsaySF » May 18th, 2006, 2:01 am

The second pic at the top of this page is my little Hammie!! :D


~Lindsay~
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