Diesel dog aggressive

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Postby donnynannette » November 10th, 2011, 1:12 am

I was not going to take him there because i know how he would act. Like i said its very hard to find trainers willing to work with him. I have talked to many trainers in the area who have said hes a pittbull its a lost cause. I do not believe this because 1. He does not just charge at other dogs to attack them. 2. He will only act aggressive with another dog if the other dog starts it for example if another dog growls at him first or goes to bite him first. I was actually wondering why petco was using a remote collar when i thought their programs were strictly positive reinforcement. I know that some people do use remote collars instead of prong collars when prong collars are not working but was just very surprised to see it there.
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Postby Tubular Toby » November 10th, 2011, 3:14 am

I know you said you're not going to take him there, I just thought that I would add my experiences about Petco.

I worked for Petco for over two years.

Now, while there are some rare individuals in the dog training program that truly KNOW their stuff and are equipped to help you with this type of training, they are few and far between. I can't even stress how UNLIKELY it is for you to have found one. Not only that, but while they aren't allowed to offer classes to you outside of Petco, any knowledgeable dog trainer wouldn't recommend working on this type of behavior in the store for the exact reasons Michelle highlighted.

Anyone, ANYONE, can become a dog trainer at Petco. There is no experience required, no true testing required. They are given a script and told exactly what to say during training classes and how to respond to questions. Now I doubt very many of them follow their script but point is, they're supposed to. That's how manufactured the dog training can be. Any of these larger behavioral problems (where you realistically can't afford one slip up), should be handled in a controlled environment with a trainer equipped to handle it.

As far as the trainer approaching you, this is what their job is. They're supposed to sell you a product- a training class. And on that note, no, it is strictly against Petco policy to train a dog using anything that is not covered in their notebook and e-collars are not covered. They also aren't supposed to deliver any corrections even with a regular flat collar (and the dogs shouldn't be in anything other than a regular flat collar/ no chokes or prongs).
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Postby TinaMartin » November 10th, 2011, 10:03 am

donnynannette wrote: The trainer was very nice. I also noticed they were training all the dogs using positive reinforcement except one german shepard the dog was back in the corner and any time a dog would come near her she would raise her lip and snarl. The owner had a remote collar on her and would zap her when she misbehaved.

This disturbs me. It sounds like he was correcting the dog when the dog is telling him that she is uncomfortable with how close the dogs are. Yeah it may make her stop snarling but when she feels her space is being invaded and he has removed the warning sign and she may simply decide to act instead.
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Postby amalie79 » November 10th, 2011, 10:49 am

What Kristen said. :)

The trainer at our PetCo first of all, has a huge chip on her shoulder, so no matter where she was, I wouldn't go to her. But that's beside the point, here.

As far as the trainer approaching you, this is what their job is. They're supposed to sell you a product- a training class. And on that note, no, it is strictly against Petco policy to train a dog using anything that is not covered in their notebook and e-collars are not covered. They also aren't supposed to deliver any corrections even with a regular flat collar (and the dogs shouldn't be in anything other than a regular flat collar/ no chokes or prongs).


The trainer in our class teaches old-fashioned heeling on a flat or martingale collar-- dog strays, sharp yank back to your side and release. That's not positive, no matter what they say. I have also heard the trainer tell the owners of an 8 week old St. Bernard that the dog was trying to dominate them and proceeded to demonstrate an alpha roll. Not only is that NOT positive training, it's bad science. (The Cesar Milan connection is my one real qualm with PetCo-- otherwise, they carry good food, good supplements, and a lot of good equipment.)

What they're doing often looks like positive training-- they use treats, and some will "use" a clicker. But oftentimes (most of the time) the trainers don't really know what they're doing. It's unfortunate, especially because their classes are affordable, but you really, REALLY get only what you pay for there. And just to reiterate what's already been said, it's barely the right environment for an easy dog-- definitely not the place for one struggling with behaviors.

And about the WalMArt chickens-- at our store, the tuck them off to the side in the cold deli section-- be sure to get the traditional seasoning. If you don't see them, though, just ask the Deli workers if they have any cold rotisserie chickens. I've noticed that not all WalMarts or Neighborhood Markets do this, and it just may have to do with store volume, location, etc. But it's worth a try!! We took our lab to an obedience trial this weekend, and she sort of spazzes in a new place; but chicken most certainly gets her attention!! And the one time I forgot to take chicken to my puppy's training, class, it was the one time that she was so overstimulated by teh other dogs that we had to put up barriers so she could work. The next week I brought chicken and she was the star of the show :| Go figure-- they aren't stupid. They know what they like lol
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 10th, 2011, 11:15 am

The Mars supermarkets here in MD sell the ends of the deli meats in chunks...for a low per/pound price. That's where I get my dog meat treats...it's usually sold in little containers: poultry chunks, ham chunks and "deli ends", which I call "random meat". Not sure what people do with them...the deli ends are all sorts of meats mixed together: bologna, olive loaf, pastrami, etc. Weird.
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2011, 1:50 pm

TinaMartin wrote:
donnynannette wrote: The trainer was very nice. I also noticed they were training all the dogs using positive reinforcement except one german shepard the dog was back in the corner and any time a dog would come near her she would raise her lip and snarl. The owner had a remote collar on her and would zap her when she misbehaved.

This disturbs me. It sounds like he was correcting the dog when the dog is telling him that she is uncomfortable with how close the dogs are. Yeah it may make her stop snarling but when she feels her space is being invaded and he has removed the warning sign and she may simply decide to act instead.

And that is sooooo fun!
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Postby donnynannette » November 10th, 2011, 4:46 pm

I felt so bad for the german shepard. I have watched a ton of training videos and alot of them say that if they trust you and a dog comes over to them they look to you for protections. When another dog would come over to her she would hide her tail between her legs try to get behind her owner and then if the dog would still bug her she would snarl her lip and jump at her owner as if to say please save me. The owner would shout Midnight fooey. And then shock her. She would then sit down next to him but looked so scared and honestly in my opinion she was not doing anything wrong the other dogs were right up in her face and pushing at her.
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Postby ArtGypsy » November 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

donnynannette wrote:I felt so bad for the german shepard. I have watched a ton of training videos and alot of them say that if they trust you and a dog comes over to them they look to you for protections. When another dog would come over to her she would hide her tail between her legs try to get behind her owner and then if the dog would still bug her she would snarl her lip and jump at her owner as if to say please save me. The owner would shout Midnight fooey. And then shock her. She would then sit down next to him but looked so scared and honestly in my opinion she was not doing anything wrong the other dogs were right up in her face and pushing at her.



:mad2: :mad2: What the Hell....this is so sad.........
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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby TinaMartin » November 11th, 2011, 8:52 am

donnynannette wrote:I felt so bad for the german shepard. I have watched a ton of training videos and alot of them say that if they trust you and a dog comes over to them they look to you for protections. When another dog would come over to her she would hide her tail between her legs try to get behind her owner and then if the dog would still bug her she would snarl her lip and jump at her owner as if to say please save me. The owner would shout Midnight fooey. And then shock her. She would then sit down next to him but looked so scared and honestly in my opinion she was not doing anything wrong the other dogs were right up in her face and pushing at her.

I don't think she could scream any louder that she is looking to her owner to correct the problem. That problem isn't with her its with other dogs and owners being rude about her comfort zone. Sadly I see a huge mess down the road and it clearly isn't the dogs fault.
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Postby amalie79 » November 11th, 2011, 10:25 am

Our trainer is getting a list of positive trainers in PA-- but in the meantime, I hadn't realized it-- Leslie McDevitt is only an hour away from Reading. She is amazing-- you guys would be so lucky to get to work with her, and in turn, I would be sooo jealous ;-) . She does phone/video consults as well. I don't know what her rates are, but here's her site:

http://controlunleashed.net/

The book Control Unleashed has been absolute required reading for many of us here with reactive dogs. She is most definitely worth checking in with. She might even be able to do a couple of consultations to get you set up with a plan to continue with on your own. I know Kathy Cascade did something like that for Kristen...
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 11th, 2011, 10:33 am

Oh...you're in PA? I've got a ton of R+ trainer friends in PA that are pit bull friendly! Shoot me a PM!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby amalie79 » November 11th, 2011, 10:41 am

TheRedQueen wrote:Oh...you're in PA? I've got a ton of R+ trainer friends in PA that are pit bull friendly! Shoot me a PM!


I was a little surprised that you hadn't jumped on that... ;-)
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 11th, 2011, 11:10 am

amalie79 wrote:
TheRedQueen wrote:Oh...you're in PA? I've got a ton of R+ trainer friends in PA that are pit bull friendly! Shoot me a PM!


I was a little surprised that you hadn't jumped on that... ;-)


I missed that completely... :|
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby furever_pit » November 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Sounds like you guys are already making progress. That's great!

For a bait bag, I have also used the home depot canvas pouches that go around your waist. I like them at times because I can keep treats on both sides of my body and I don't always have to reward from the same hand. I'm also known to just shove treats in my jean and jacket pockets and go from there. You can also try the ammo pouches that you can get at any outdoor store. They work well for treats and can also hold a kong if you choose to go to toys for your rewards later.

I'm not sure if Philly is too far of a drive for you but there is a trainer there who gets great obedience out of his dogs with positive reinforcement foundation. He's experienced with the bully breeds too. If that's a doable distance for you, I'll shoot you his number and information.
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Postby donnynannette » November 11th, 2011, 7:16 pm

I emailed leslie so far. I asked her about the phone consults she also said because im not that far that she could meet face to face but she is pregnant so she wouldnt be able to handle diesel as much. She said she could stil help me out so i emailed her and asked how long it usually takes when we do it in person im just worried because of traveling in the winter with the snow. She also mentioned a trainer in philly so it might be the same guy. But philly is a pretty far drive for us.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 11th, 2011, 7:35 pm

I'll keep asking around...
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"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby ArtGypsy » November 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Oh...you're in PA? I've got a ton of R+ trainer friends in PA that are pit bull friendly! Shoot me a PM!



MY FRIENDS ROCK... :confetti:
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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby donnynannette » November 11th, 2011, 8:49 pm

Hope this works trying again lol. This i Diesel with scrappy and areena my neighbors dog and diesels best buddy.
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Postby donnynannette » November 11th, 2011, 8:50 pm

yippie now that i figured it out i will post more
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Postby ArtGypsy » November 11th, 2011, 9:27 pm

donnynannette wrote:Hope this works trying again lol. This i Diesel with scrappy and areena my neighbors dog and diesels best buddy.
Image



ADOR-ABLE!! :D
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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