Gigz Learning the Bark & Hold (Oct 2)

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby furever_pit » October 3rd, 2011, 8:06 pm

14 month old American Bulldog working on the bark and hold.

video:
http://qik.com/44755608/b1b2d063

bark and hold for no equipment:
Image

going for the pocket:
Image

Image

Image

Thanks for looking! :D
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Postby plebayo » October 3rd, 2011, 10:58 pm

I'm on my phone and it wouldn't load for me. Thanks for sharing pictures!! It looks like he's having fun!
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Postby furever_pit » October 4th, 2011, 9:21 am

Thanks. :)
Ah that stinks. Qik is sometimes a slow loading website, I have trouble with it on my phone sometimes too.
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Postby Malli » October 4th, 2011, 2:18 pm

he is the same with the sleeve as Oscar is with any of his toys he has high drive for :)
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Postby plebayo » October 4th, 2011, 2:32 pm

Finally saw the video. Very cool!!! I so wish I could do this with Seth it looks like tons of fun and it looks like Gigz was having a blast!
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Postby furever_pit » October 10th, 2011, 11:00 am

It is tons of fun! I wish I could say that Gigz is tired after training...but I would be lying. lol
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Postby babyreba » October 24th, 2011, 9:36 pm

is your helper rod davis? if so, he used to work dogs up in maryland with us sometimes. well, back when i lived in maryland anyway. :)
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Postby furever_pit » October 24th, 2011, 10:13 pm

Yes, that is Rod Davis. I also work with another group in MD. Who did you train with there?
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Postby babyreba » October 24th, 2011, 10:15 pm

Commonwealth Working Dog Club, and sometimes at WAG and the DC Club. I moved to Florida in May 2010, so it's been a while.
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Postby furever_pit » October 24th, 2011, 10:39 pm

Oh okay. I normally meet up with Ron and sometimes Butch when I head up there. I don't make it often enough to become a true club member but that's okay.
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Postby mnp13 » October 24th, 2011, 10:42 pm

Looks like it's coming along.

Just a quick observation - there is equipment in the first picture. Scratch pants are as much of a cue as a jacket or a sleeve, especially since many decoys always have them on.
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Postby babyreba » October 24th, 2011, 10:51 pm

furever_pit wrote:Oh okay. I normally meet up with Ron and sometimes Butch when I head up there. I don't make it often enough to become a true club member but that's okay.


Ron and Butch were the guys I worked with most when I was there. Also, Matt Ford, who you may have met if you know those guys. Super nice guy. And Mark Bednaryzyk, who's also really good guy and was great with my dog.

I miss training up there. I was just up last weekend, got to see some old club members. Was nice.
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Postby furever_pit » October 25th, 2011, 8:01 am

I don't think I have met Matt, but I have met Mark. He hasn't worked any of my dogs yet tho I am sure he will in the future. I love those clubs, the people are so great. They are my favorite of any place I have trained. If u were up there this weekend you probably saw my pups father, Bruno.

Michelle, you can count scratch pants as equipment, what I meant was no bite equipment was on the decoy. Rod is actually the only guy Gigz works on who wears scratch pants and regardless, Gigz has and will perform protection behaviors with no suit, sleeve, or scratch pants present. Gigz was actually started with no equipment before moving onto the suit and sleeve. He totally recognizes that someone in jeans and a tshirt is as much fun as someone with a sleeve.
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Postby furever_pit » October 25th, 2011, 8:04 am

Those are actually carhartt overalls, not scratch pants. But the cut is similar, yes.
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Postby DemoDick » October 28th, 2011, 7:42 pm

furever_pit wrote:Those are actually carhartt overalls, not scratch pants. But the cut is similar, yes.


The equipment is on the ground. And the dog, unless you handle him in a harness all the time.

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Postby furever_pit » October 31st, 2011, 7:40 pm

:rolleyes2: As I've already clarified, what I meant with that comment on that picture is that there was no bite equipment on the decoy. That doesn't make overalls into scratch pants tho.

Also, as I have already said (and as many people have seen), Gigz will perform with no equipment present. No suit, no sleeve, no scratch pants, new decoy, new location, no harness, and no back tie. If you ever want to see it or to test it, you can meet me in NC, VA, or MD.
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Postby mnp13 » October 31st, 2011, 10:26 pm

Well, on that I will disagree. A pair of heavy car heart overalls being worn in the same photo as two people wearing shorts and tshirts is a relatively clear indication to me that even if they are not "scratch pants" they appear to be functioning as such unless your decoy just enjoys roasting??

There is a TON of equipment in that picture. Harness, back tie, prong collar, agitation collar, overalls-that-protect-the-decoy-from-getting-scratched and a jacket on the ground. Anyone who does a "bark and hold" in shorts and a tshirt in front of a dog on a normal collar and loose leash would be an idiot, since the whole point is the dog nailing you if you move.

I'm not saying the training isn't coming along, but there are many many cues to the dog that it is a training scenario. Just like the "hidden sleeve" in the PSA carjacking - that people get in the car, put a harness on the dog, then to through the exact same scenario that the do does every time. There's no reason to use a hidden sleeve in that scenario. All of the dogs know exactly what's coming from the list of cues they are given. If a judge really wanted to screw up every dog at a trial, they would make the off leash surprise scenario the same thing as the car jacking but with no bite. The dogs would never think they weren't getting a bite because they always do in that setup.

We find that a lot in obedience training. The dog gets used to cues and patterns (intentional or not) you can use them to your advantage, but saying they aren't there isnt exactly accurate.
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Postby DemoDick » October 31st, 2011, 10:44 pm

furever_pit wrote::rolleyes2: As I've already clarified, what I meant with that comment on that picture is that there was no bite equipment on the decoy. That doesn't make overalls into scratch pants tho.


Well overalls are scratch pants but that's not the issue. None of the pictures show a B&H for "no equipment". They show a B&H with equipment everywhere.

Also, as I have already said (and as many people have seen), Gigz will perform with no equipment present. No suit, no sleeve, no scratch pants, new decoy, new location, no harness, and no back tie. If you ever want to see it or to test it, you can meet me in NC, VA, or MD.


Next time we're in MD I will look you up. Until then you could post video testing the dog with no training cues.

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Postby furever_pit » October 31st, 2011, 11:34 pm

For the third time, by the caption I meant there was no bite equipment ON the decoy. I've seen plenty of dogs that will not even bark at a decoy in scratch pants if they do not have the sleeve on. Dogs that will take a dropped sleeve or jacket as punishment. This is not that dog. And for being young as he is with probably a total of a dozen protection sessions under his belt, I think that's pretty good.

As for the "agitation collar" that is the collar I keep my dogs in all the time. I use 2" collars as my standard collars once dog are big enough for them. Look at any picture of my dogs, including my Malinois. Prongs are also not exclusively used in protection.

I never denied that this was a training video. I think the title learning the bark and hold makes that pretty clear. I should have captioned the picture differently, obviously.

Dick, I don't live in MD. If you want to meet up with me there you will need to schedule it with me. And I will gladly share video when I am able to get some. All the video I have up to this point has been taken by other people as I don't have a video camera.
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Postby DemoDick » November 1st, 2011, 7:17 am

furever_pit wrote:For the third time, by the caption I meant there was no bite equipment ON the decoy.


Except the scratch pants.

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