Pit♥bull wrote:I was referring to this.Hoyden wrote:
I rarely clip the leash to the prong collar
mnp13 wrote:The way you are both using them is based on management, not training.
TheRedQueen wrote:My goal is always to have my dogs work on a buckle collar, or on no collar...I don't want to depend on training tools, regardless of how they work (aversive or not).
TheRedQueen wrote:Just because your dogs enjoy putting the prong on does not mean that it doesn't work via positive punishment. If your dogs respond to the prong collar tightening, you are using the collar as an aversive. So even if you don't hook it up, the dog remembers the feeling, and becomes "collar smart".
My goal is always to have my dogs work on a buckle collar, or on no collar...I don't want to depend on training tools, regardless of how they work (aversive or not).
Maybe I'm trying to justify it to myself ( ), but if a tool that CAN be used aversively ISN'T being used aversively, is it aversive or just another piece of equipment on the dog? Erin (not singling you out, but you said it!) said that because it has to be used originally with positive punishment (can't argue with that - I used it as they're made to be used) that it will forever be associated with positive punishment. I can go with that. However, I've seen people yanking dogs around on plain buckle collars, too - major leash corrections, hanging, etc. Does that mean buckle collars will forever be aversive as well?
Not being argumentative, just encouraging discussion.
amalie79 wrote:Just a quick note on the GLs-- Suzanne Clothier has an interesting take on them that's worth reading...FWIW
DemoDick wrote:Prong collars are not always an aversive when they are popped. There is a prong technique that *many* dogs respond to that does not diminish a behavior, rather it loads the dog into drive.
What it really comes down to is how the human handling the dog feels about the training tool.
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