Question About Down

by **BigDogBuford** » April 16th, 2011, 5:32 pm

So Dash had his first puppy class today and he did really well! There was a totally overstimulated and almost panicked Goldendoodle (go figure) and a really reactive and under socialized older Boxer pup as well as a Boston and a Frenchie and an adult Pug and Dash was definitely the best behaved puppy. It's a trainer that starts with positive and will work different methods in to suit different dogs. She said Dash was easy to train and wants to please. He already has sit, walk with a loose leash and come pretty much all the time. Down however he doesn't like and I can tell it makes him feel uncomfortable or vulnerable.

SO here's my question. I don't want to 'force' him into the down in any way. I feel like I need to desensitize him and make him more comfortable in a down position and then the command should be pretty simple, right? Does this make sense? And it it does, how do I go about getting him more comfortable in a down position? If this sounds stupid and totally off, what should I do instead? And no, I don't know any clicker training. It's not something I can read about and do, I'll have to do it in person....it's just the way I learn. I tried to find a clicker trainer but it didn't work with my location/schedule at this point.

by **furever_pit** » April 16th, 2011, 9:02 pm

Have you tried luring him with a treat?
I usually introduce down by putting the dog in a sit and then I pull the treat to the ground so it's about in line with their chest - I don't want dogs moving forward to lay down, though that may not matter to you and if it doesn't then don't worry about it. The dogs will typically put their heads down and try to figure out how to get the treat, and I don't let them have it until they lay down. Some dogs are easier than others.

by **pitbullmamaliz** » April 16th, 2011, 9:06 pm

You can also lure underneath your legs or a chair rung or something so he has to duck to get the treat. Or you could just capture it - take him into a bathroom or other boring room and ignore him. As soon as he lies down, YES and toss a treat so he has to get up to get it. Rinse, repeat and he'll start getting it. Once you are willing to bet $100 that he's going to lie down again, start saying down before he does so and eventually the cue will stick.

by **mnp13** » April 16th, 2011, 9:58 pm

If you have the patience for it, and can stand the pawing, put a high value treat in your hand and close your fist. Put your hand on the floor and wait. If he's like my dogs, he'll paw at it, bark at it, jump around and do all sorts of wacky stuff to convince you to give it to him. at some point his butt will hit the floor - open your hand!

I had Riggs for six months before he let me touch him while laying on his side. It was a while before he would even lay down and stretch out while I was in the room - and once he did that if I moved (got off the couch for example) he'd pop up off of his side. It was a long slow process.

Ruby hates the down. She does it, but gives you the death glare or the long suffering "you're beating me" look. She's a prima donna bitch, and the first trainer I worked with was very heavy handed... the two didn't mix well.

If you make it fun, he'll think it's fun.

by **BigDogBuford** » April 16th, 2011, 9:59 pm

Yep, we tried luring with a treat and his butt just pops up off the ground. If you try to hold his butt down then he gets overstimulated and we lose any focus.

I was figuring I'd just have to capture it as he does it. He's a smart guy so I have faith he'll figure it out

by **mnp13** » April 16th, 2011, 10:01 pm

It's ok if it pops up - at first anyway.

After a while, make him wait, so he's in the down a little longer while working at your hand. Then open it.

by **pitbullmamaliz** » April 16th, 2011, 10:04 pm

Just use a marker word (or a click! :wink:

) the INSTANT his butt hits the ground. As long as he understands a marker, he'll know that he got it for butt down. Like Michelle said, once he gets the concept of moving INTO the down, you can work on STAYING in the down.

by **BigDogBuford** » April 17th, 2011, 11:03 am

So I tried the treat in my hand thing and Dash sniffed it, pawed my hand a little and then sat and barked at my hand with the treats.

by **amalie79** » April 17th, 2011, 11:10 am

Have you tried teaching it with no other dogs around? River refused to do it if Simon was anywhere in the vicinity... but if he was outside or behind a closed door, she was happy to do it. Well, not happy-- it's still not her favorite position-- but more compliant.

by **BigDogBuford** » April 17th, 2011, 11:46 am

amalie79 wrote:Have you tried teaching it with no other dogs around? River refused to do it if Simon was anywhere in the vicinity... but if he was outside or behind a closed door, she was happy to do it. Well, not happy-- it's still not her favorite position-- but more compliant.

No, I haven't so I'll give that a shot. Thank you!

by **Malli** » April 17th, 2011, 2:34 pm

I say mark it, he'll nail it

If you have your clicker handy you can mark it when he curls up to relax, too!

by **mnp13** » April 17th, 2011, 11:18 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:So I tried the treat in my hand thing and Dash sniffed it, pawed my hand a little and then sat and barked at my hand with the treats.

Yup. Keep on waiting. I have teased on top of it... open the hand to "remind" them it's there. Keep them working to get it. Eventually it's likely they will flop down all the way to "work" on getting your hand open.

It's annoying, but eventually usually happens!

by **BigDogBuford** » September 25th, 2011, 12:43 pm

Just wanted to give an update. I ended up taking Dash out of that class because the only advice the trainer could give me was to force him into the down which I think is unacceptable. We started a new class three weeks ago with a trainer that I adore so far. There are only two dogs in this class so it's great. Dash did his first down yesterday....twice in a row! Yay! So far he's got sit, walk with a loose leash, stand, come and down. I'm so proud of my boy!

by **amalie79** » September 25th, 2011, 12:49 pm

Yay for good updates!! I agree-- forcing him into a down sounds like ridiculous advice. Glad you found someone you're comfortable with; it really does make all the difference.

by **plebayo** » September 25th, 2011, 3:19 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:Just wanted to give an update. I ended up taking Dash out of that class because the only advice the trainer could give me was to force him into the down which I think is unacceptable. We started a new class three weeks ago with a trainer that I adore so far. There are only two dogs in this class so it's great. Dash did his first down yesterday....twice in a row! Yay! So far he's got sit, walk with a loose leash, stand, come and down. I'm so proud of my boy!

That's excellent! Glad to hear you found a trainer you really like - it sounds like a good situation. Also YAY Dash for learning down!!!!

by **airwalk** » September 25th, 2011, 4:54 pm

Excellent, he's a very smart puppy with a very smart owner - he'll have his basics down in nothing flat.

by **Malli** » September 25th, 2011, 8:52 pm

great!

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