Human medical advice needed

Everything that doesn't fit anywhere else!

Postby amalie79 » February 14th, 2011, 10:39 am

iluvk9 wrote:
I only eat one serving of grain per day. Either an english muffin (wheat type), oatmeal (made from steel cut oats) or 2 slices of 14-grain bread.

I eat lots of nuts, fruits and vegetables.

I do love greek yogurt and can cut back on the dairy in general.

As for fish, I have salmon, flounder or shrimp.

I can up my salmon oil pills. I don't know where else to get more fat from; as you know, I don't eat "meats".


Also, things like legumes-- garbanzo beans are what I'm thinking of in particular-- have a lot of protein and good fats. They are also gluten-free and there's even garbanzo flour (gram flour) that makes a lovely bread. It's not sandwich bread, but it's MORE than enough protein for an entire meal in one serving.

There are also a lot of good dairy substitutes-- no really! When I did the gluten/dairy free thing, I thought I would die. If there are 2 things you'll have to pry from my cold dead hands, it's cheese and beer. But I have to admit, cheese substitutes have come a long, long way. And corn-based vodka is really very good. 8) I love almond milk for my cereal and for baking, and I've heard good things about coconut yogurt and I know that home yogurt-making machines can make soy yogurt and other substitutes. I admit, I didn't stick to this diet, though I kind of wish I had. It was everyone else in the house that had a real problem with it... or was the problem with the OCD-nut control freak that I turned into while reading every label on every single thing and crying in Wal-Mart because everything had gluten or casein or it was too expensive and would require a second mortgage on the house just so I could eat a gluten-free cookie? Hmm...
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Postby DemoDick » February 14th, 2011, 11:46 am

amalie79 wrote:Also, things like legumes-- garbanzo beans are what I'm thinking of in particular-- have a lot of protein and good fats. They are also gluten-free and there's even garbanzo flour (gram flour) that makes a lovely bread. It's not sandwich bread, but it's MORE than enough protein for an entire meal in one serving.


Joyce is engaging in rigorous physical exercise, so her protein needs are not going to be optimally filled by legumes or flour derived from them, as plant-based protein sources are either incomplete or have a low bioavailability when compared to animal proteins. For a lacto-ovo vegetarian, a better option would be egg protein or a slow digesting milk protein like casein, which can be bought as a powder. Raw milk (if you can get it) and other unpasteurized dairy is a fantastic addition to a diet deficient in animal flesh.

Joyce, did this problem with your hands pop up at about the same time you started exercise? It may simply be that you aren't eating enough calories and/or enough protein to allow your body to repair itself, and it sounds like your hands are taking the brunt of the trauma during the activity.

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Postby iluvk9 » February 14th, 2011, 12:02 pm

DemoDick wrote:Joyce, did this problem with your hands pop up at about the same time you started exercise? It may simply be that you aren't eating enough calories and/or enough protein to allow your body to repair itself, and it sounds like your hands are taking the brunt of the trauma during the activity.
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I have had mild pain in my fingers when waking up for a few years, but after 15 minutes it went away.

I will say, I am FEROCIOUS kicking and HITTING the bag during class. 8) The instructor tells us to punch like you mean it, and trust me, I mean it. :wink:

I never know what to eat AFTER the class. I am not really hungry and it is "time for dinner". I tend to graze, so I will have a yogurt with fruit or something simple.

That severe pain has not happened again.
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Postby amalie79 » February 14th, 2011, 12:04 pm

Joyce is engaging in rigorous physical exercise, so her protein needs are not going to be optimally filled by legumes or flour derived from them, as plant-based protein sources are either incomplete or have a low bioavailability when compared to animal proteins. For a lacto-ovo vegetarian, a better option would be egg protein or a slow digesting milk protein like casein, which can be bought as a powder. Raw milk (if you can get it) and other unpasteurized dairy is a fantastic addition to a diet deficient in animal flesh.


I know she can't live on legumes alone-- I was really just pointing out that that's one more way to help get protein, a way to add more protein to a meal or as a protein heavy snack (I know I said it's enough for a meal, but I was trying to emphasize just how much is actually in it). The recipe I use for farinata (gram flour and water) has 60 grams of protein in it. You can eat 1/4 of it as a side dish and that's a 15g boost to your meal-- frankly, I can't ever eat only 1/4; I usually manage to down 1/2 or more. I was also looking at ways that don't involve milk or milk protein. Casein is sometimes pointed to as a culprit in inflammation for some people. Goat's milk is at least better, as the casein in it is closer to what's found in human milk, so it's something to be mindful of when buying a supplement.

I know that plant-based protein is not necessaarily as bioavailable and I love eggs-- they are the perfect protein-- but they can get a little old sometimes. Diet for a Small Planet is a wonderful book that really lays out why the egg is a usable substitute for meat in terms of protein, and it has tons of vegetarian recipes that center around the egg and other protein combinations.
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Postby iluvk9 » February 14th, 2011, 12:06 pm

Uh...can we not talk about Joyce like she is not here? 8)
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Postby amalie79 » February 14th, 2011, 12:16 pm

iluvk9 wrote:Uh...can we not talk about Joyce like she is not here? 8)


Oh hi, Joyce! When did you get here?
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Postby DemoDick » February 14th, 2011, 1:37 pm

iluvk9 wrote:
DemoDick wrote:Joyce, did this problem with your hands pop up at about the same time you started exercise? It may simply be that you aren't eating enough calories and/or enough protein to allow your body to repair itself, and it sounds like your hands are taking the brunt of the trauma during the activity.
Demo Dick


I have had mild pain in my fingers when waking up for a few years, but after 15 minutes it went away.

I will say, I am FEROCIOUS kicking and HITTING the bag during class. 8) The instructor tells us to punch like you mean it, and trust me, I mean it. :wink:

I never know what to eat AFTER the class. I am not really hungry and it is "time for dinner". I tend to graze, so I will have a yogurt with fruit or something simple.

That severe pain has not happened again.


Most people's hands and feet swell while sleeping. My own grip is shot first thing in the morning and my hands feel weak for half an hour so so upon rising. You might be experiencing the same thing to a degree that causes pain, and insufficient recovery from training would only make it worse.

Post workout is an optimal time to eat a carb+protein meal, as your muscle glycogen stores are in a depleted state. This is the one time you actually want to spike your insulin production, so ingesting carbs makes sense. Add in a 40g whey shake (usually 2 scoops from most whey manufacturers) and a couple of bananas IMMEDIATELY after your workout whether you feel hungry or not. Center all your other meals around an acceptable protein source like eggs and eat the protein first. Eat enough fat, too. Fat is good for you, as long as it's naturally occurring and not man-made trans-fat, which is poison.

If your dietary house is in order then it's time to start looking at joint health supplements and calcium+vitamin D. Also, you might be experiencing DOMS which is a real bitch but basically harmless. Try this: ice your hands and forearms after you train. Like get a bag of cubed ice, throw it in a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with cold water. Submerge them for 15 minutes and bring them out for 15. Then back in for 15. It sucks, but if DOMS is the culprit it works like a charm.

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Postby iluvk9 » February 14th, 2011, 7:48 pm

DemoDick wrote:If your dietary house is in order...
Demo Dick

I don't know why, but this line just cracked me up. 8) Maybe you should be called DR. DEMO. :giggle:

I have whey protein so that works for me after class. :)

I hope it isn't DOM. :shock: Never even heard of it and can't see me icing up. I am a bit of a wimp.
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Postby madremissy » February 14th, 2011, 8:55 pm

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Postby DemoDick » February 15th, 2011, 12:18 am

iluvk9 wrote:
DemoDick wrote:If your dietary house is in order...
Demo Dick

I don't know why, but this line just cracked me up. 8) Maybe you should be called DR. DEMO. :giggle:

I have whey protein so that works for me after class. :)

I hope it isn't DOM. :shock: Never even heard of it and can't see me icing up. I am a bit of a wimp.


Oh, I am totally a doctor. You can trust me.

DOMS=Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. A few of us lucky ones get to experience it. It typically hits full force 48 hrs after a traumatic training session. When I train legs, I'm good immediately post-workout, and the next day is okay as well. Two days after the session is when I can't move my legs without severe pain and have to hobble around wincing and grunting. Forget stairs...I look like I have shoe soles made of upturned thumb tacks. It's deceptive because is hits really hard in an unexpected time window and is very intense. I'm not sure that's what's going on with your hands but you should consider it as a possibility.

Everything is on the table at this point. Carpal tunnel, DOMS, arthritis, osteoporosis, etc. Get thee to a doctor, hopefully one who knows what they are talking about.

I will say that most people, especially self-styled martial artists, have zero idea how to throw an effective punch without risking serious damage to their hands. Strikes have a short-term effect on the recipient, but a long term effect on the sender. Pro boxers routinely break their knuckles through those gloves. Maybe try open handed strikes for a while. They can be devastating. I wish you were here so I could show you how to deliver explosive force through your palms instead of your knuckles. It works much better than punches and doesn't hurt the "sender" at all.

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Postby iluvk9 » February 15th, 2011, 6:42 am

This class is really called "total body workout" and it is held at a karate place. It is a lot of cardio, using the stretch bands for resistance, the 6' bag we punch and kick, hand weights, long weighted bars and heavy soccer type balls. They really don't "show us" how to throw punches other than where the 3 main types land on the bag.

I have a well known Dr. used for athletes in my area. I went to him numerous times for when I was riding in fox hunts and my horse dumped me...torn knee and screwed up neck. Also for when I fell down the stairs while trying to "save" the vacuum I was holding. 8)

Thanks for the info, everyone. Dr. Demo I hope you take NYS Empire Insurance.
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Postby iluvk9 » March 27th, 2011, 8:13 am

The kickboxing class ended before I got to the Dr. 8) My hands no longer hurt. I guess all that pounding (incorrectly, I am sure) was the reason. My hand joints are actually a lot better, too, since I consistently take the joint supplement.
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Postby plebayo » March 27th, 2011, 1:38 pm

iluvk9 wrote:The kickboxing class ended before I got to the Dr. 8) My hands no longer hurt. I guess all that pounding (incorrectly, I am sure) was the reason. My hand joints are actually a lot better, too, since I consistently take the joint supplement.



YAY for a positive update :D
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Postby mnp13 » March 27th, 2011, 6:55 pm

Great! What supplement did you decide on ?
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Postby iluvk9 » March 28th, 2011, 5:54 am

"Move Free Advanced". 2 tabs= 1,500 glucosamine, 200 condroitin and 250 "univestin" (which is skullcap root and black catechu).

Now I feel like a Labrador on joint meds. :)
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Postby pitsnok » March 30th, 2011, 3:25 am

Okay okay, so I didn't read through every single reply... (it's late, give me some slack) BUT, I will say that you should definitely eat quinoa if you're trying to up your protein and you don't eat meat. It is DELICIOUS, and can be used for any meal, in place of grains, pasta, or even meats. I'm not a real meat-eater myself, but unfortunately I am more of a 'carbetarian' than I am veggie, so quinoa is a really good substitute for me. I have the paleo book by... rob wolfe (maybe?) and just haven't mustered up the energy/courage/willpower to actually start doing it.
Although I will say, this time last year I did a 'candida-free' diet, which is basically the same as paleo, and I did lose a LOT of weight, but my joint pain never went away. It can often be caused by a food allergy, gluten is the prime candidate, so it is good to cut things out one at at a time (AGAIN, the same way we do our dogs' food! haha!)
I have bad joint problems, just avoid seeing a rheumatologist because then it would become real...So I feel your pain!


Also, Joyce, you make me feel TERRIBLE about myself! healthy, and kickboxing 5x a week! GEEZZZZZZZ! you're making us all look bad!
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Postby iluvk9 » March 30th, 2011, 5:54 am

pitsnok wrote:Also, Joyce, you make me feel TERRIBLE about myself! healthy, and kickboxing 5x a week! GEEZZZZZZZ! you're making us all look bad!


AND I can kick ALL YOUR ASSES!!!!
:neener:

Thanks for the info! :)
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Postby DemoDick » March 30th, 2011, 7:51 pm

Joyce, if you do eat fish, then eat as much of it as you want, especially fatty cuts of salmon. It's good for everything, including your joints.

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Postby iluvk9 » March 30th, 2011, 8:19 pm

I do eat fish, and I love salmon. I don't know if it is "fatty". :? I get the wild Alaskan. Yummy...even microwaved. :giggle:
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Postby mnp13 » March 30th, 2011, 8:38 pm

What happened to using your George Forman grill??

Oh, and fatty salmon has more white in it.
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