What Has The Breed Become?

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby AmericanSuprDog » March 3rd, 2011, 12:30 pm

furever_pit wrote:Yep. As someone who has recently started a training club and is hosting my first seminar this weekend, there is a lot of stuff that I didn't think about needing to be done until I had already jumped in. Doesn't mean it's not awesome, just that it is a lot of work. I have found that delegation to other club and organizational members is a must.

I will also say that one way to cut down on overhead costs is to use land that you (or a friend or someone interested in your endeavor) actually owns. This is the case with my club and we will be making more money from the seminars and events that we host because of that, it also allows me to pass on savings to those who are attending.


First I wish you best of luck in your endeavor. I hope this post has helped in some way. There are a few here with experience that have provided good input. It is alright to be new at something. Everything has a first time and sometimes you just have to jump in. For those who are negative to your cause use it as inspiration.

I hope your event went well unless you meant this coming weekend then I hope it goes well. Please feel free to provide input and suggestions to the post for others who may also be considering getting more active with their dogs and the community.

Your point on delegation is very well taken. Being new I think it is good if you can set this type of environment early in development. One of the things I have seen at shows is people who have a "lost" look in their eyes because they do not either know what is going on or are not participating often times because they do not understand the event(s). This is an opportunity to get them involved while at the same time encourage them to learn and help. The more people feel a "part" of a club/event the more apt they will be to participate in the future and for your efforts to grow.

Also you point on location is well noted. It is obvious that clubs can struggle with their finances and that this has led to diminished activities and participation. I think it is imperative that clubs look at ways they can generate revenue - not being afraid to think outside the box - and to take advantage of natural cost efficiencies that are available such as through using member owned land and taking advantage of volunteer help.

If you can provide at least one video of a Pit/Am Staff working or training to our site at http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com let us know and we will be happy to also place a free banner for you as a community resource. While the tv series will have a focus on the Pit Bull/Am Staff the resources we will be making available will not be limited to these breeds as they will be more all encompassing for pet owners to encourage them to also get out and get active.

DemoDick wrote:
If seeking sponsorship is not a part of pre-production, then you are financing it personally or have investors, correct?

What is your experience in the field of TV producing? Do you know what is involved with actually producing, marketing and airing a television show? Can we see some of your work? If I remember correctly, your initial post claimed or inferred that you were looking for dogs for "America's Got Talent". What happened with that?

Demo Dick


The show for the most part will be financed through commercial sponsorship handled through the production company and network. We are not the production company. We are using a production company as this is the standard in the television industry and most accepted through tv networks.

I will not share my personal work as I will not risk my efforts being poisoned. I am not making an accusation of you but highlighting that it is obvious not everyone has good intentions.

In regards to my initial post you are 1/2 correct. The first objective is for the American Super Dog tv series we are working on. Thus far we have surpassed 10% of our goal for content review for the series. We are working with a representative from America's Got Talent as well for the recruitment of talented Pit Bulls/Am Staffs. The American Super Dog website is where she is reviewing submissions through as this is the most efficient means for her to review related material. Those who are interested to be included should upload talented videos of the Pit Bull/Am Staffs. Direct recruitment of individuals will be handled directly through their profile on the site by both us at American Super Dog and AGT.
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Postby furever_pit » March 3rd, 2011, 1:29 pm

AmericanSuprDog wrote:If you can provide at least one video of a Pit/Am Staff working or training to our site at http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com let us know and we will be happy to also place a free banner for you as a community resource. While the tv series will have a focus on the Pit Bull/Am Staff the resources we will be making available will not be limited to these breeds as they will be more all encompassing for pet owners to encourage them to also get out and get active.


Thank you for your well wishes.
My dogs train in protection work. As far as I understand you are not accepting videos of those activities at this point?
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Postby Pit♥bull » March 3rd, 2011, 3:34 pm

AmericanSuprDog wrote:The American Super Dog website is where she is reviewing submissions through as this is the most efficient means for her to review related material.
I'll bet she's really impressed by your half ass attempt to provide an acceptable website. :crazy2:
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Postby dlynne1123 » March 4th, 2011, 11:22 am

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Answered in order of importance not in order of post.

dlynne1123 sorry I am going to cut up your quote but I wanted to be sure to answer each issue of importance.

dlynne1123 wrote:In Maine we don't have UKC WP events at all! At least that have been advertised to All Breed.

Given that Weight Pull is primarily focused on the Pit Bull I do not find that too add. I appreciate your perspective coming from a multi-breed club and see the unique individualities and hurdles multi-breed clubs have and how there are definite differences with single-breed clubs.

It's not mostly bullies. There a lot if sled dogs too. The majority of my sudents want to keep training their working dogs in the off season. The biggest mis conception is exactly what you are saying. We have poodles, spaniels, jack Russells and herding dogs too. But this thread is exhausting! If what you are going by is your opinion(not fact) then why bother with us? This is clearly a more 'working dog' site than you expected


dlynne1123 wrote:I have been to non sanctioned events but none UKC in Maine. Every Weight Pull I've attended has been in CT or Very Southern Mass. And all were All Breed. Anywhere from 3 to 6 hours drive for my clients.


This also underscore some of my points in my initial post. It is also these hurdles that generate opportunity for other organizational structures to exist. For example I would highly encourage you to look into the IWPA as an all breed club that is not registry affiliated for WP info. Being in the NE I would think they are there or with your assistance could see the viability. It would make sense, since they deal in WP and have two different winter divisions Snow and Snow and Wheeled pulls here is a link to their rules: http://www.iwpa.net/Rules.html

Many Pit Bull clubs are reassessing their relationship with registries and are wondering if it is this relationship that contributes to their lack of growth or member participation. Examples of this is how many are now having what they call “fun shows” where registry affiliation is not important. Organizations like IWPA are filling in what they perceive as a doughnut hole in the pet industry. Other organizations are stepping up for all kinds of more specialized events like Agility, Flyball, Obedience, Shutzhund, Disc Dog and many other activities. These organizations are seizing the positive aspects of focused singular events that fully embrace greater participation and more dynamic involvement.

dlynne1123 wrote:As for ADBA, I've heard was mostly bullies. I can't find them in Mass or Maine anymore.


If you are asking it depends on who you ask. Many people are die-hard registry brand oriented. ADBA enthusiasts will deny that statement flat out. Their pride is in the “idea” of a well-conditioned game Pit Bull. Many will also want to deny the change happening in the ADBA since it has changed to an All-Breed club now focusing on over 300 breeds. The brand loyalty that many have given the ADBA is based on 100 years of focused attention on the Pit Bull breed. Now that it is multi-breed and their focus will have to involve more show inclusion it will be interesting to see how they address the new unique hurdles they face while at the same time maintaining their brand loyalty.

To be fair however on their behalf of all types of Pit Bull specific shows they sanction theirs do seem to be more representative of the APBT in its original game standard. Many Conformation participants do not meet the old standard but still more do than other registries.

For more bully oriented shows if this is what people are interested in then ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) events are definitely where a person should go. In fact one of their bragging points is their goal is to eliminate aspects of “game” and this is represented in the many examples of Pit Bulls they represent. Her is a direct quote from their home page. “but traits ….. gameness were bred out of the breed because the breed had no future and purpose for those traits.” http://theabkcdogs.org/

American Super Dog does not agree that there is no purpose. Given the diversity of the Pit Bull community there is room for individuals who wish an active game Pit Bull and those who just want a champion couch warmer. The travesty is/will be when those do wish to be more active do not have the opportunity. This begs the very first original question of the post. “What has the breed become?” and is very relevant to the points within the post of where accountability lies.

dlynne1123 wrote:As a trainer and a competitor, I want to offer this to clients and get the same eagerness to try. But pushing a club that has never been to one, or even interested is tough. For two years we have had only several fun pulls in Maine b/c not one club offers it. Every event has been held by motivated but not supported 'training' clubs. Theres been a couple held by the BullDoggers in Central Maine. Thats it.


dlynne1123 wrote:You tell a local club 'Hey, me and my friends do this sport called WP. You heard of it? Yeah, that sport. We want to have competitions here locally so people learning, don't have to travel to Conn. and hopefully we can get the sport more readily available up here. Yeah its a UKC sport, really! Well, we would all join your club if we could offer this to you. We offer UKC Protection/Police competitors, Rally, and Agility too! We can bring lots to your club." We've been trying for a while now. I am beginning to think its not going to happen! And we have 3,000 lbs in weight, a UKC certified cart and only have classes for fun. But, our dogs don't 'look' pretty so we aren't taken seriously.


Wow that really underscores this point in my original post:
“Is it the fault of local clubs who have failed to market themselves well enough to pull in more members? Who have failed to offer more opportunities of sporting events despite registries lack of sanctioning these? Who have failed to educate their members in the activities available? Who perpetuate a fear of failure by not embracing more participation through training?”

If you have the support and weight equipment you may want to see about starting a local WP and other activity related club. It is not necessary to have registry affiliation. Such comes with perks but also has drawbacks. You may also want to assess value in working with other clubs that are non-registry affiliated such as the IWPA or decide if you wish to be a totally independent club doing your own thing. If you can manage the hurdles of independence you may have a very eager and captive audience and significant potential membership in your area. Independence has the most to offer in terms of opportunity and control whereas affiliation has the benefit of established membership and referrals. It is a classic risk vs. reward scenario for you to consider exploration. If you would like to advertise your training or would like to advertise for yourself as an independent club we will be happy to provide you a free banner on http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com we will be happy to help spread the word for your services as a resource. The only thing we require is that you upload one video as proof for consideration in the series and since the series will be breed specific that the video be of a Pit Bull/Am Staff. The banner itself does not have to be breed specific.

It is posts like yours that are GOLD.

I look forward to your continued input.

mnp13 wrote:And again, posting on forums is not "research". The general forum population is already apt to be doing more with their dog, or at least more engaged
with outside input than the "average" owner. This forum is more "pet orientated" than some but I still think the members are well above the norm.

I have been going to dog events for the last eight years, most have been multi-breed I have never attended one that had sport events after conformation. There are not enough hours in a day to run any sport after conformation even at the small shows I have been to/competed in.


Internet forums are an excellent way to research a topic. In fact research and learning is why people for the most part are involved in forums. They make the perfect vehicle for such individuals due to their ability to ask questions and receive answers and present ideas and receive both positive and critical feedback. In your own words: "apt to be doing more" "more engaged with outside input (than the "average" owner)" and "members are well above the norm."

In regards to dog events if you will recall my original post has been about single breed events not multi-breed. Since the original post I have opened up discussion on the mutli-breed aspect as well as I see many correlating factors. I agree that there probably is not enough time after Conformation at a multi-breed event to hold sporting events either before of after. I even remarked on this in a previous post in this thread with dlynne1123. This is a hurdle that is more registry specific as non-registry clubs have more focus on events as opposed to Conformation. You see in your posts your input has been valuable in understanding some of the differences between single vs. mutli-breed issues and registry vs. club vs. member issues. I am sure it is a challenge for multi-breed registry affiliated clubs to manage things given that they must spread out their attention. I think this is one of the areas where single-breed shows may have the operating and financial advantage. This is also why I put forth the idea in my last post of running the sporting events concurrent with Conformation for registry specific clubs so as to help keep up the excitement and participation level. I think waiting the hours on end to take part in the one Conformation event you may be in leads to boredom and thus is a disincentive for ongoing participation. If you will read the conversations with dlynne1123 this seems to support the theory.

Hugapitbull - Please review your post as it is full of contradiction and double standard. If you have specific points to make that you would like to be addressed that are related to the original topic or expanded topic of single vs. multi-breed I would be happy to have a meaningful and engaging dialogue with you.

Pit♥Bull wrote:I'll just continue the "one line attacks" :) as I dislike trolls as well as spammers.

Please feel free to keep my post on top. I do not mind as it brings in others who do have value added input like dlynne1123 and mnp13. If you want gold you have to be willing to dig through the dirt. As for the personal issues of self-dislike you should seek a therapist.
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Postby dlynne1123 » March 4th, 2011, 11:25 am

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Answered in order of importance not in order of post.

dlynne1123 sorry I am going to cut up your quote but I wanted to be sure to answer each issue of importance.

dlynne1123 wrote:In Maine we don't have UKC WP events at all! At least that have been advertised to All Breed.

Given that Weight Pull is primarily focused on the Pit Bull I do not find that too add. I appreciate your perspective coming from a multi-breed club and see the unique individualities and hurdles multi-breed clubs have and how there are definite differences with single-breed clubs.

It's not mostly bullies. There a lot if sled dogs too. The majority of my sudents want to keep training their working dogs in the off season. The biggest mis conception is exactly what you are saying. We have poodles, spaniels, jack Russells and herding dogs too. But this thread is exhausting! If what you are going by is your opinion(not fact) then why bother with us? This is clearly a more 'working dog' site than you expected


dlynne1123 wrote:I have been to non sanctioned events but none UKC in Maine. Every Weight Pull I've attended has been in CT or Very Southern Mass. And all were All Breed. Anywhere from 3 to 6 hours drive for my clients.


This also underscore some of my points in my initial post. It is also these hurdles that generate opportunity for other organizational structures to exist. For example I would highly encourage you to look into the IWPA as an all breed club that is not registry affiliated for WP info. Being in the NE I would think they are there or with your assistance could see the viability. It would make sense, since they deal in WP and have two different winter divisions Snow and Snow and Wheeled pulls here is a link to their rules: http://www.iwpa.net/Rules.html

Many Pit Bull clubs are reassessing their relationship with registries and are wondering if it is this relationship that contributes to their lack of growth or member participation. Examples of this is how many are now having what they call “fun shows” where registry affiliation is not important. Organizations like IWPA are filling in what they perceive as a doughnut hole in the pet industry. Other organizations are stepping up for all kinds of more specialized events like Agility, Flyball, Obedience, Shutzhund, Disc Dog and many other activities. These organizations are seizing the positive aspects of focused singular events that fully embrace greater participation and more dynamic involvement.

dlynne1123 wrote:As for ADBA, I've heard was mostly bullies. I can't find them in Mass or Maine anymore.


If you are asking it depends on who you ask. Many people are die-hard registry brand oriented. ADBA enthusiasts will deny that statement flat out. Their pride is in the “idea” of a well-conditioned game Pit Bull. Many will also want to deny the change happening in the ADBA since it has changed to an All-Breed club now focusing on over 300 breeds. The brand loyalty that many have given the ADBA is based on 100 years of focused attention on the Pit Bull breed. Now that it is multi-breed and their focus will have to involve more show inclusion it will be interesting to see how they address the new unique hurdles they face while at the same time maintaining their brand loyalty.

To be fair however on their behalf of all types of Pit Bull specific shows they sanction theirs do seem to be more representative of the APBT in its original game standard. Many Conformation participants do not meet the old standard but still more do than other registries.

For more bully oriented shows if this is what people are interested in then ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) events are definitely where a person should go. In fact one of their bragging points is their goal is to eliminate aspects of “game” and this is represented in the many examples of Pit Bulls they represent. Her is a direct quote from their home page. “but traits ….. gameness were bred out of the breed because the breed had no future and purpose for those traits.” http://theabkcdogs.org/

American Super Dog does not agree that there is no purpose. Given the diversity of the Pit Bull community there is room for individuals who wish an active game Pit Bull and those who just want a champion couch warmer. The travesty is/will be when those do wish to be more active do not have the opportunity. This begs the very first original question of the post. “What has the breed become?” and is very relevant to the points within the post of where accountability lies.

dlynne1123 wrote:As a trainer and a competitor, I want to offer this to clients and get the same eagerness to try. But pushing a club that has never been to one, or even interested is tough. For two years we have had only several fun pulls in Maine b/c not one club offers it. Every event has been held by motivated but not supported 'training' clubs. Theres been a couple held by the BullDoggers in Central Maine. Thats it.


dlynne1123 wrote:You tell a local club 'Hey, me and my friends do this sport called WP. You heard of it? Yeah, that sport. We want to have competitions here locally so people learning, don't have to travel to Conn. and hopefully we can get the sport more readily available up here. Yeah its a UKC sport, really! Well, we would all join your club if we could offer this to you. We offer UKC Protection/Police competitors, Rally, and Agility too! We can bring lots to your club." We've been trying for a while now. I am beginning to think its not going to happen! And we have 3,000 lbs in weight, a UKC certified cart and only have classes for fun. But, our dogs don't 'look' pretty so we aren't taken seriously.


Wow that really underscores this point in my original post:
“Is it the fault of local clubs who have failed to market themselves well enough to pull in more members? Who have failed to offer more opportunities of sporting events despite registries lack of sanctioning these? Who have failed to educate their members in the activities available? Who perpetuate a fear of failure by not embracing more participation through training?”

If you have the support and weight equipment you may want to see about starting a local WP and other activity related club. It is not necessary to have registry affiliation. Such comes with perks but also has drawbacks. You may also want to assess value in working with other clubs that are non-registry affiliated such as the IWPA or decide if you wish to be a totally independent club doing your own thing. If you can manage the hurdles of independence you may have a very eager and captive audience and significant potential membership in your area. Independence has the most to offer in terms of opportunity and control whereas affiliation has the benefit of established membership and referrals. It is a classic risk vs. reward scenario for you to consider exploration. If you would like to advertise your training or would like to advertise for yourself as an independent club we will be happy to provide you a free banner on http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com we will be happy to help spread the word for your services as a resource. The only thing we require is that you upload one video as proof for consideration in the series and since the series will be breed specific that the video be of a Pit Bull/Am Staff. The banner itself does not have to be breed specific.

It is posts like yours that are GOLD.

I look forward to your continued input.

mnp13 wrote:And again, posting on forums is not "research". The general forum population is already apt to be doing more with their dog, or at least more engaged
with outside input than the "average" owner. This forum is more "pet orientated" than some but I still think the members are well above the norm.

I have been going to dog events for the last eight years, most have been multi-breed I have never attended one that had sport events after conformation. There are not enough hours in a day to run any sport after conformation even at the small shows I have been to/competed in.


Internet forums are an excellent way to research a topic. In fact research and learning is why people for the most part are involved in forums. They make the perfect vehicle for such individuals due to their ability to ask questions and receive answers and present ideas and receive both positive and critical feedback. In your own words: "apt to be doing more" "more engaged with outside input (than the "average" owner)" and "members are well above the norm."

In regards to dog events if you will recall my original post has been about single breed events not multi-breed. Since the original post I have opened up discussion on the mutli-breed aspect as well as I see many correlating factors. I agree that there probably is not enough time after Conformation at a multi-breed event to hold sporting events either before of after. I even remarked on this in a previous post in this thread with dlynne1123. This is a hurdle that is more registry specific as non-registry clubs have more focus on events as opposed to Conformation. You see in your posts your input has been valuable in understanding some of the differences between single vs. mutli-breed issues and registry vs. club vs. member issues. I am sure it is a challenge for multi-breed registry affiliated clubs to manage things given that they must spread out their attention. I think this is one of the areas where single-breed shows may have the operating and financial advantage. This is also why I put forth the idea in my last post of running the sporting events concurrent with Conformation for registry specific clubs so as to help keep up the excitement and participation level. I think waiting the hours on end to take part in the one Conformation event you may be in leads to boredom and thus is a disincentive for ongoing participation. If you will read the conversations with dlynne1123 this seems to support the theory.

Hugapitbull - Please review your post as it is full of contradiction and double standard. If you have specific points to make that you would like to be addressed that are related to the original topic or expanded topic of single vs. multi-breed I would be happy to have a meaningful and engaging dialogue with you.

Pit♥Bull wrote:I'll just continue the "one line attacks" :) as I dislike trolls as well as spammers.

Please feel free to keep my post on top. I do not mind as it brings in others who do have value added input like dlynne1123 and mnp13. If you want gold you have to be willing to dig through the dirt. As for the personal issues of self-dislike you should seek a therapist.
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby mnp13 » March 4th, 2011, 11:39 am

In regards to my initial post you are 1/2 correct. The first objective is for the American Super Dog tv series we are working on. Thus far we have surpassed 10% of our goal for content review for the series. We are working with a representative from America's Got Talent as well for the recruitment of talented Pit Bulls/Am Staffs. The American Super Dog website is where she is reviewing submissions through as this is the most efficient means for her to review related material. Those who are interested to be included should upload talented videos of the Pit Bull/Am Staffs. Direct recruitment of individuals will be handled directly through their profile on the site by both us at American Super Dog and AGT.

You have a producer from AGT reviewing submissions on your website? Really? I have to admit I find that hard to believe, as I've been to your site and find it hard to navigate, not organized and not at all professional. With the amount of talent that AGT screens, looking at weight pull videos (completely out of context for AGT's purposes) doesn't seem to be a logical use of that producer's time. AGT's ultimate draw is a Vegas show as I recall. What exactly will a weight pull or obedience routine do for that??

And AGAIN, internet forums are NOT "research" if you want to RESEARCH. You will contact the AKC, UKC, ADBA, IWPA, etc and get their enrollment numbers by breed, numbers for the last ten years, by breed, then get their numbers for shows, clubs, participants, income, titles earned, dogs entered vs legs earned, ages of dogs, demographics of owners and handlers. Using this data from, say the last ten years, will allow you to see REAL trends in dog shows (corformation, obedience, agility, etc). Asking people on forums what they have seen, when the VAST majority of people don't leave their region is a waste of time overall, because you are only getting information based on opinion and someones often skewed perspective.
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » March 7th, 2011, 11:38 pm

furever_pit wrote:
AmericanSuprDog wrote:If you can provide at least one video of a Pit/Am Staff working or training to our site at http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com let us know and we will be happy to also place a free banner for you as a community resource. While the tv series will have a focus on the Pit Bull/Am Staff the resources we will be making available will not be limited to these breeds as they will be more all encompassing for pet owners to encourage them to also get out and get active.


Thank you for your well wishes.
My dogs train in protection work. As far as I understand you are not accepting videos of those activities at this point?


As the series progresses we will be introducing such activities in a positive gentle manner. If people wish to submit these kind of videos we will accept them for review but they should also mark their video as private.

Through your profile on American Super Dog you can take the opportunity to write educational articles on your type training to educate people on it in a positive manner. I think protection work is an excellent opportunity for the breed. I would love to see the day where owners step up and once again prove the breed in a way that the military will once again considers its services. I think to offer our military anything less than the best breed or individual for the job is unfair to them.

Also as mentioned we can provide a free banner listing for you as a resource as both trainer and club. If you upload a video let us know and we will be happy to review it for you.

I have been to an exclusive showing of military working dogs and their training and found it very interesting however it was nothing the Pit Bull in my experience could not do better than the breeds considered acceptable and put into use. Given that you are working with multiple breeds and mixes your insight would be great. In regards to protection work how would you rate the breed? Admittedly I am bias.

mnp13 wrote:
In regards to my initial post you are 1/2 correct. The first objective is for the American Super Dog tv series we are working on. Thus far we have surpassed 10% of our goal for content review for the series. We are working with a representative from America's Got Talent as well for the recruitment of talented Pit Bulls/Am Staffs. The American Super Dog website is where she is reviewing submissions through as this is the most efficient means for her to review related material. Those who are interested to be included should upload talented videos of the Pit Bull/Am Staffs. Direct recruitment of individuals will be handled directly through their profile on the site by both us at American Super Dog and AGT.

You have a producer from AGT reviewing submissions on your website? Really? I have to admit I find that hard to believe, as I've been to your site and find it hard to navigate, not organized and not at all professional. With the amount of talent that AGT screens, looking at weight pull videos (completely out of context for AGT's purposes) doesn't seem to be a logical use of that producer's time. AGT's ultimate draw is a Vegas show as I recall. What exactly will a weight pull or obedience routine do for that??


Let me be clear. Having the experience I do I have been contacted by a representative with AGT in order to assist them in finding talented Pit Bulls. This individual believes in the versatility of the breed and wants to promote it in a positive manner. The AGT production and our production at American Super Dog are completely separate. As far as what does a dog with talent offer Vegas I think that is to be seen.

If people wish to discuss the topic of my initial post please visit it: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34452&start=20

mnp13 wrote:And AGAIN, internet forums are NOT "research" if you want to RESEARCH. You will contact the AKC, UKC, ADBA, IWPA, etc and get their enrollment numbers by breed, numbers for the last ten years, by breed, then get their numbers for shows, clubs, participants, income, titles earned, dogs entered vs legs earned, ages of dogs, demographics of owners and handlers. Using this data from, say the last ten years, will allow you to see REAL trends in dog shows (corformation, obedience, agility, etc). Asking people on forums what they have seen, when the VAST majority of people don't leave their region is a waste of time overall, because you are only getting information based on opinion and someones often skewed perspective.


Believe what you wish I think the internet proves itself as a magnificent ground of research. Tell me one serious researcher that does not use it? I do however think that your suggestions are good. Most of your questions I suspect they would be unwilling to provide answers to due to desire to maintain competitive advantage in the industry or in other cases they simply do not track themselves. The AKC is a bit of an exception as they do place a good deal of such related data in their minutes. I will definitely add it to our list of to dos in our research. Would you like us to share with the post participants hear what their responses are and how long should we give them to respond?

-----Develop survey:
enrollment numbers by breed
numbers for the last ten years by breed
then get their numbers for shows
numbers for clubs
participants
income
titles earned
dogs entered vs legs earned
ages of dogs
demographics of owners
demographics of handlers

Here is some interesting internet researched data however: http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Breed/AtlanticAKC90.pdf

“By the AKC's own estimates, a majority of newcomers to
the sport, obssessed with championship ribbons, stick with it an average of five years.”

And

“David, of Dog World, the AKC registered fewer than 50 percent of the dogs born in AKC-registered litters.
(Much of the AKC's increase in absolute numbers over the past decade has come, he says, through the
recognition of new breeds.) David believes that the slippage represents an organization in decline.”


I also think it is a bit presumptuous and demeaning to think there is no value in people’s perspectives or points of view. I agree there is bias. I agree and admit I am bias in my favorable perspective and dedication to the breed. What I find great is that each time you post you provide us relevant research worthy suggestions. Whether or not seeing eye to eye on everything I value all relevant input.
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » March 11th, 2011, 9:48 pm

Still looking for more input.
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Postby DogsRPeople » March 12th, 2011, 10:56 pm

Hey,

Your "Blog" section is being Spammed by what looks like the Chinese. You need to delete them!
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 12th, 2011, 11:18 pm

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Still looking for more input.


Maybe if you were on the board more, not just in this thread...people would respond to you more...just sayin' :|
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Postby DemoDick » March 14th, 2011, 1:19 pm

Believe what you wish I think the internet proves itself as a magnificent ground of research. Tell me one serious researcher that does not use it?


Off the top of my head? Lott, Kleck, Szasz, Firebaugh, Sowell, Friedman and Oakeshott. Want to know how I know? Because *no* serious researcher uses your practice of asking questions on message boards as a research method. If they were to do so, they would be summarily discredited and laughed out of their fields.

It would help if you actually knew what research is, but you don't.
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Postby TinaMartin » March 14th, 2011, 3:29 pm

DemoDick wrote:
Believe what you wish I think the internet proves itself as a magnificent ground of research. Tell me one serious researcher that does not use it?


Off the top of my head? Lott, Kleck, Szasz, Firebaugh, Sowell, Friedman and Oakeshott. Want to know how I know? Because *no* serious researcher uses your practice of asking questions on message boards as a research method. If they were to do so, they would be summarily discredited and laughed out of their fields.

It would help if you actually knew what research is, but you don't.

Thank you Demo. I am sure you know how much this is making me cringe.
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 14th, 2011, 3:33 pm

TinaMartin wrote:
DemoDick wrote:
Believe what you wish I think the internet proves itself as a magnificent ground of research. Tell me one serious researcher that does not use it?


Off the top of my head? Lott, Kleck, Szasz, Firebaugh, Sowell, Friedman and Oakeshott. Want to know how I know? Because *no* serious researcher uses your practice of asking questions on message boards as a research method. If they were to do so, they would be summarily discredited and laughed out of their fields.

It would help if you actually knew what research is, but you don't.

Thank you Demo. I am sure you know how much this is making me cringe.


I think it's making all of us cringe... :neutral:
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Postby TinaMartin » March 14th, 2011, 3:49 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:
I think it's making all of us cringe... :neutral:

True.
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Postby SisMorphine » March 14th, 2011, 3:59 pm

TinaMartin wrote:
TheRedQueen wrote:
I think it's making all of us cringe... :neutral:

True.

If I did all of my research via interwebs . . . and ESPECIALLY via forums . . . that would be horrifyingly skewed!
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 14th, 2011, 4:04 pm

My dad is a retired professor of Health Economics...he now does research/data collection/surveys for various non-profits in the state of Indiana. I can say confidentally that he does not do his research online...lol
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Postby mnp13 » March 14th, 2011, 7:14 pm

Katrina has a PhD, let's see how much of her doctoral research was done on online forums...

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Postby madremissy » March 14th, 2011, 7:25 pm

mnp13 wrote:Katrina has a PhD, let's see how much of her doctoral research was done on online forums...

Oh Ka-TRIIIIIIIIIIIIII-NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

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Postby furever_pit » March 14th, 2011, 8:14 pm

LOL!
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Postby katiek0417 » March 14th, 2011, 10:22 pm

mnp13 wrote:Katrina has a PhD, let's see how much of her doctoral research was done on online forums...

Oh Ka-TRIIIIIIIIIIIIII-NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!


I heard my name being called, so I decided to take a trip over here to PBT! Hi everyone, I've missed you! :wave2:

So, I'll admit I didn't fully read through the thread, but I did get to read the most recent stuff about doing research online...that peaked my interest...

Because I gotta tell you. I must've been an idiot all this time! :doh: I mean, to think, I've been doing things bass ackwards!

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Believe what you wish I think the internet proves itself as a magnificent ground of research. Tell me one serious researcher that does not use it?


I haven't been using it, and you have convinced me that there has been an error in my methods! :crazy2: I mean, OMG, there's forums where everyone is totally honest about every aspect of their lives, and I'd never find any bias with that sample. That has to be the best way to collect data. I am such an idiot! Okay, well, I go up for tenure next year, so I'll be sure to incorporate this method because I KNOW it will guarantee that I get tenure - and my promotion. :dance:

So, in case you couldn't guess, that was me being sarcastic. I mean, really? I won't lie, I've used the internet to find scholarly articles on my specific research topics, but to collect data? Now, I won't knock it - you can collect data online; however, most researchers who do their research online are designing studies that will collect data from a very large, non-specific, group of volunteers so that they can generalize their findings. Collecting data from forums, however? WTH? Do you know the amount of bias that would be introduced into your analyses by collecting data from that medium?

To be honest, any reputable researcher, would laugh at findings from a study that had data gathered in that way. Why? Because you can't generalize your findings - and that's really one of the primary reasons of doing research. You can't generalize your findings because forum members are not representative of the entire population of dog owners. So, your methods would lack random sampling, which is one of the first assumptions of any data analysis.

I'm not trying to be mean. Oh, heck, who am I trying to kid? I'm certainly not going out of my way to be nice... :rolleyes2:

But, doing the research the way you suggest is a mockery, at best. You violate all the primary "guidelines" of conducting a valid research study. In fact, you would be doing everything that I strive so hard to tell my students NOT to do.

I am a researcher. I have my Ph.D. in Applied Experimental Psychology (yes, research). I have conducted studies on ADHD, multiple sclerosis, course redesign, clinical trials, and the list goes on...I currently teach full time (and btw, one of the classes I teach is a statistics course in which we also cover research methodology), and do research (in fact, I've been super busy writing a proposal for a grant).

I can promise you, your methods are ridiculous - and your claims about "serious researchers" are even moreso. I know serious researchers. I know some of the biggest names in research - and they're not using your methods (and I use that term very loosely in reference to what you're doing)...

Oh, and one more thing:

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Here is some interesting internet researched data however: http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Breed/AtlanticAKC90.pdf


Okay, I lied again - it's more than one thing. I don't know if you're claiming that you found that to be interesting data that you were able to find on the internet, but serious researchers:

1. Wouldn't refer to this as data. It's background information - nothing more.
2. Wouldn't use an outdated article that was published in 1990. Researchers recognize that a lot happens in even just 10 years, so while it might be okay to get some background information from an article older than 10 years, it would very rarely be appropriate to use it for direct support of newer hypotheses.
3. Would know that this is not a peer-reviewed and scholarly article. It was published in a newspaper - so it was made for the general public - not for a serious researcher.

Let me guess, you also use Wikipedia... :o
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