"Ah-ha" Moments...

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Postby SisMorphine » February 23rd, 2011, 10:54 am

TinaMartin wrote:Speaking of which, Sorsha has now got an amazing focused sit when we get ready to go outside to potty. Its funny to watch her wiggle the tip of her tail for verbal praise as she is sitting there with that look on her face. Oh momma I am so not moving really I'm not and the tip of her tail wont stop.

LOVE IT! I call that "The Rattle Snake". And it's adorable :)
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Postby TinaMartin » February 23rd, 2011, 11:03 am

SisMorphine wrote:
TinaMartin wrote:Speaking of which, Sorsha has now got an amazing focused sit when we get ready to go outside to potty. Its funny to watch her wiggle the tip of her tail for verbal praise as she is sitting there with that look on her face. Oh momma I am so not moving really I'm not and the tip of her tail wont stop.

LOVE IT! I call that "The Rattle Snake". And it's adorable :)

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Postby dlynne1123 » February 23rd, 2011, 3:37 pm

Ryder was at class for rally and I had panser with me for some pulling afterwards. It was just a beginner class so I figured I'd give Ryder a break and try panser(who has no obedience or focus) well with treats in hand I couldn't have ever explained how we did the entire course with little to no mishaps and the most focused heel I have seen in a ling time. The cutest thing is that she hops from front to 'au pied' without actually even knowing change of positions! To my surprise panser does have focus and although the bull in china shop agility she may be trailing soon too! ;)
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 28th, 2011, 10:15 pm

Puzzle has finally figured out the visual cue of John's lap tray being set up for dinner...the dogs all know to hop off the couch when he's eating (unless invited to sit next to him)...and she'd been rather persistant about jumping back up onto the couch. Tonight, she removed herself and found a dog bed instead. Yea!
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 17th, 2011, 8:58 am

Another Puzzle moment...she actually is getting the fact that if she calls off the fence (fence fighting with the neighbor dogs), she gets a yummy treat. I've been using some Premack with her too, so at times I let her go back to barking/running the fence after she comes to me.
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Postby Hundilein » April 4th, 2011, 10:25 pm

Vixen has an annoying habit of jumping all over me when I'm trying to put her leash on for potty breaks. The other day it suddenly occurred to me that she knows how to sit and leash time would be a perfect time to practice. We're still working on it, but she's getting a lot better. Please don't tell all the owners of obnoxious little dogs that I was acting just like them letting the little dog get away with murder.
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Postby plebayo » April 11th, 2011, 10:49 pm

Seth kills me sometimes.

We're working on 'stand for exam' and I've been trying to teach him what 'stand' means. Initially he would do it if I touched his back end and baited him with a treat but tonight he kept trying to sit. So I started walking into him and when he would stand kept saying "good stand" and throwing a treat and kept rewarding him for standing.

Well, I'm not sure what happened but now when I say 'stand' after I put him in a sit he spins around to the left and stands. I just think it's hilarious how he connected spinning around and standing to the word 'stand'. For now we're rolling with it because I just want him standing because he automatically wants to sit for his treat. It just kind of made me laugh :)
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Postby amalie79 » April 11th, 2011, 11:51 pm

plebayo wrote:Seth kills me sometimes.

We're working on 'stand for exam' and I've been trying to teach him what 'stand' means. Initially he would do it if I touched his back end and baited him with a treat but tonight he kept trying to sit. So I started walking into him and when he would stand kept saying "good stand" and throwing a treat and kept rewarding him for standing.

Well, I'm not sure what happened but now when I say 'stand' after I put him in a sit he spins around to the left and stands. I just think it's hilarious how he connected spinning around and standing to the word 'stand'. For now we're rolling with it because I just want him standing because he automatically wants to sit for his treat. It just kind of made me laugh :)


Oh, the Auto-sit. A blessing and a curse. ;-)
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Postby plebayo » April 12th, 2011, 12:19 am

amalie79 wrote:
plebayo wrote:Seth kills me sometimes.

We're working on 'stand for exam' and I've been trying to teach him what 'stand' means. Initially he would do it if I touched his back end and baited him with a treat but tonight he kept trying to sit. So I started walking into him and when he would stand kept saying "good stand" and throwing a treat and kept rewarding him for standing.

Well, I'm not sure what happened but now when I say 'stand' after I put him in a sit he spins around to the left and stands. I just think it's hilarious how he connected spinning around and standing to the word 'stand'. For now we're rolling with it because I just want him standing because he automatically wants to sit for his treat. It just kind of made me laugh :)


Oh, the Auto-sit. A blessing and a curse. ;-)


:doh: Sooo true.
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 12th, 2011, 8:50 am

Auto-sit=anticipation

He's not clear on your cues...so you don't have the behaviors under stimulus control. I have a really quick easy little game from Kathy Sdao for that. Lemme see if I can find it to type up...otherwise I have to pick my own brain and write it out.
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Postby plebayo » April 12th, 2011, 9:25 am

Oh yeah, he's definitely not clear on it - he's just learned the concept of standing. He's anticipating the sit because that is all I have been asking him to do. Sit for finish, sit for recall, and sit when we stop moving. So far that is what has been getting him the snacks. I'm pretty sure once he understands the word 'stand' fully he will have no problems going from sit to stand and from stand to sit.
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Postby amalie79 » April 12th, 2011, 9:28 am

I started trying to teach a "stand" cue the other day and it was rough-- my poor little pea brain couldn't handle it that day so we stopped. :neutral:
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 12th, 2011, 10:32 am

plebayo wrote:Oh yeah, he's definitely not clear on it - he's just learned the concept of standing. He's anticipating the sit because that is all I have been asking him to do. Sit for finish, sit for recall, and sit when we stop moving. So far that is what has been getting him the snacks. I'm pretty sure once he understands the word 'stand' fully he will have no problems going from sit to stand and from stand to sit.


He's not clear on the sit cue is what I'm getting at actually. If he were extremely clear on the sit cue, you wouldn't get the anticipation and sitting when you don't want it. He's still offering the behavior when you don't want it...so the cue for sit isn't clear. So when you add in the stand cue, it's just going to muddy the waters more. I'd clean up your cue for sit also...while you're working on stand.

Amalie...were you trying to teach the stand behavior, or was the cue itself giving you trouble? The cue should be whatever works for you and the dog.

I click/treat my stands now...and I get them taught in a matter of minutes...so much easier than trying to manipulate the dog.
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Postby amalie79 » April 12th, 2011, 10:42 am

I was trying to teach the behavior-- they both see the treat and that butt slams to the ground. I literally spent maximum 2 minutes on it and went, "Oh, I need a better plan for this...and I need to come up with that plan on a day when I am profoundly less stupid." I didn't really think through what I was going to click or how I was going to work toward that position, so I abandoned ship. Are you just capturing stands and C/T? And if so, are you initially capturing the position or the movement into that position (ie, going from sit to stand, down to stand, etc.)?
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 12th, 2011, 10:50 am

amalie79 wrote:I was trying to teach the behavior-- they both see the treat and that butt slams to the ground. I literally spent maximum 2 minutes on it and went, "Oh, I need a better plan for this...and I need to come up with that plan on a day when I am profoundly less stupid." I didn't really think through what I was going to click or how I was going to work toward that position, so I abandoned ship. Are you just capturing stands and C/T? And if so, are you initially capturing the position or the movement into that position (ie, going from sit to stand, down to stand, etc.)?


Okay...I was wondering how you were having trouble with the cues...lol

I capture stands to start with...so they're really solid on them...and we have a cue, then when they're solid on the cue...I add them in with the other behaviors.
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Postby amalie79 » April 12th, 2011, 11:02 am

TheRedQueen wrote:
amalie79 wrote:I was trying to teach the behavior-- they both see the treat and that butt slams to the ground. I literally spent maximum 2 minutes on it and went, "Oh, I need a better plan for this...and I need to come up with that plan on a day when I am profoundly less stupid." I didn't really think through what I was going to click or how I was going to work toward that position, so I abandoned ship. Are you just capturing stands and C/T? And if so, are you initially capturing the position or the movement into that position (ie, going from sit to stand, down to stand, etc.)?


Okay...I was wondering how you were having trouble with the cues...lol

I capture stands to start with...so they're really solid on them...and we have a cue, then when they're solid on the cue...I add them in with the other behaviors.


Taking flexeril this morning, so I'm probably not making as much sense as I ought to... :doh:

Are you capturing the movement into the stand or just whenever they are in a standing position? I seem to remember Patricia McConnell talks about wondering if what dogs learn is more the movement than the position, explaining why some dogs if ALREADY in a sit, will go into a down if asked to sit again. I would suppose it makes a difference how it's taught...?
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 12th, 2011, 11:08 am

I bring the clicker and treats out during times where they tend to stand...so I can capture the stand itself. Score and Inara...I taught them to stand at a Panera, while we were eating outside. Neither one of them has a great love for lying down on the concrete...so they were standing more often. I clicked/treated for those beautiful stands...(they shuffled around some of course...but the butts didn't head towards the concrete as much). I'm a great one for grabbing opportunities like that. Of course afterwards, I went and got their comfy beds so they could get comfy. ;)
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"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 12th, 2011, 12:01 pm

I truly regret teaching Inara to auto-sit when I stop moving or when she wants something. It's making teaching stand so much harder. She can do a stand from a walk, which is great, but not from a sit or down. We're having trouble with that. :)
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Postby Malli » April 26th, 2011, 1:20 pm

here is our background :

For Oscar the best exercise he can get, other then a hike or a walk, is swimming.
When he swims the combination of the actual act plus the toys (which are not indestructible, and this sends his intensity through the roof :rolleyes2: ) sends him into really really intense drive.
We have even gone so far as to have two toys for swimming because he refuses to let go of one and then destroys it, so we "trade" after each retrieve.
When he is in this "state of mind", he is at his MOST frustrating for me - he doesn't listen well, he doesn't remember his manners, and he is extremely impulsive - once he had set his toy down and I reached under him to "sneak" it away and when he saw this he went for it, except he grabbed my hand >(

So anyway... I like to take him swimming because I know he likes it but it can be really frustrating and I have lost my temper(this is the bane of my existence in training, my temper) many times.

I took him for the first time all winter, just the other day; I thought before about staying relaxed all around. I kept my voice low except for praise (he seems to most like praise that sounds rediculous), and conciously kept my actions slower.
The improvement was immediate! :dance:
I was able to bend down next to him while holding the "trade" (because we always come to the point of me needing both toys when we leave!) and ask him to out, he did! Even as much as to take a step back instead of standing over it. :D I did have to repeat, but....
I think I've also come to the conclusion that repeating a command in a high excitement/high drive situation isn't at all the same as having to do it under normal circumstances. I don't see it as a negative at this point.

We went again yesterday and had the same :)
I'm hopeful this will be the theme of our swims now!
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Postby amalie79 » April 26th, 2011, 1:46 pm

:clap:
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