What Has The Breed Become?

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby furever_pit » February 19th, 2011, 7:55 pm

See, I feel I did answer some of your questions...

You are wondering about the working aspects of these dogs. I suggested you look places other than breed specific shows. There are lots of working dog people who couldn't care less about competing in conformation. I will never go to a show just for conformation. My dogs gets shown in the ring because there happens to be a conformation show at a working event that I am already attending.

If you want to see working dogs, go to events that draw working dog owners. :|
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Postby iluvk9 » February 19th, 2011, 9:12 pm

AmericanSuprDog, I see you posted the same thread on PBF. What's that all about? :popcorn2:

And kindly don't get snarky with me. I just find it ironic. :dance:
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 19th, 2011, 9:32 pm

iluvk9 wrote:AmericanSuprDog, I see you posted the same thread on PBF. What's that all about? :popcorn2:

And kindly don't get snarky with me. I just find it ironic. :dance:


I'm sure he'll have some statistics to back up why he posted the same post on PBF too.
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Postby Pit♥bull » February 19th, 2011, 10:20 pm

iluvk9 wrote:AmericanSuprDog, I see you posted the same thread on PBF.
Joyce,
Are you two timing us. :dance:
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Postby mnp13 » February 19th, 2011, 11:35 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:
iluvk9 wrote:AmericanSuprDog, I see you posted the same thread on PBF.
Joyce,
Are you two timing us. :dance:


Yes she is... I've gotten reports... lmao
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Postby iluvk9 » February 20th, 2011, 6:46 am

Bob, I go there to see who posts the exact same thing here. :giggle:
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Postby Pit♥bull » February 20th, 2011, 7:00 am

iluvk9 wrote:Bob, I go there to see who posts the exact same thing here. :giggle:
You're excused since you are acting as a 'mole'. :D
I'd bet he's spamming all the boards with the same drivel. :crazy2:
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Postby iluvk9 » February 20th, 2011, 9:39 am

Pit♥Bull wrote:
iluvk9 wrote:Bob, I go there to see who posts the exact same thing here. :giggle:
You're excused since you are acting as a 'mole'. :D
I'd bet he's spamming all the boards with the same drivel. :crazy2:


Well, I wouldn't say I am a mole.....:giggle: as I DO try to add to any forum I am on.
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Postby iluvk9 » February 20th, 2011, 9:46 am

Oh, and I see the same exact post on Game-dog, Go Pit Bull and The Bully Forum.

Can I google or what?!?!?! :dance:
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 20th, 2011, 4:09 pm

The club was not a breed love club but an all breed club, UKC. And it woulnd't change the insurance rate to have more events, it would cost more money, for judges, food, and attention spans. It would only change the profit at the end of an event. If people are committed they get a discount by preregistering. And by doing multiple pulls, shows, dogs, etc.

Maybe it was attendance but it wasn't b/c of bullies alone, it was general attendance.

UKC requirements to start a new club are hard to come by in small Maine. Attendance, initiative to try something that you may not be good at, and types of sports you want to have. If all we want to have is RAlly and Conformation we can manage, b/c its easy to find judges. You know how hard it is to find a Comp Obedience judge in Central Maine? How hard it is to become a judge? Its very hard and people are in it for fun, not always the competition. Not to mention that no one (UKC clubs) in the Southern Maine area has even heard of WP, so convincing them I want to be a member to help them diverse is laughable. A year ago this month we proposed this to a local club, and more than 5 people would have joined if they could apply for WP events, still no word. Why would I want to be part of a club if they can't support the events I want to trial in?

Obvious to say, if training with my dog started to suck I probably wouldn't do it anymore. Let alone, organize, volunteer and attend events.
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » February 21st, 2011, 2:24 am

Answers to posts are in order of importance not time.

dlynne1123 wrote:The club was not a breed love club but an all breed club, UKC. And it woulnd't change the insurance rate to have more events, it would cost more money, for judges, food, and attention spans. It would only change the profit at the end of an event. If people are committed they get a discount by preregistering. And by doing multiple pulls, shows, dogs, etc.

Maybe it was attendance but it wasn't b/c of bullies alone, it was general attendance.

UKC requirements to start a new club are hard to come by in small Maine. Attendance, initiative to try something that you may not be good at, and types of sports you want to have. If all we want to have is RAlly and Conformation we can manage, b/c its easy to find judges. You know how hard it is to find a Comp Obedience judge in Central Maine? How hard it is to become a judge? Its very hard and people are in it for fun, not always the competition. Not to mention that no one (UKC clubs) in the Southern Maine area has even heard of WP, so convincing them I want to be a member to help them diverse is laughable. A year ago this month we proposed this to a local club, and more than 5 people would have joined if they could apply for WP events, still no word. Why would I want to be part of a club if they can't support the events I want to trial in?

Obvious to say, if training with my dog started to suck I probably wouldn't do it anymore. Let alone, organize, volunteer and attend events.


Thanks for your input. As you may have seen with my posts with furever_pit I have placed the predominance of my focus on Pit breed clubs and not all breed clubs. I do find your input very important in helping understand the dynamics of clubs and what issues they may be experiencing. If I am understanding it would seem like a club would possibly have better success at events if they were more informal in nature? I do realize this may not be really that feasible in a registry sanctioned club, which may help explain what I have noticed being a shift more to a fun club or at least in sanctioned clubs offering more "fun shows" that are not specific to registries.

In regards to food the shows that I go to are using a concession stand setup where they charge for the food. Is this something your club did as well and if so you are saying that this in itself is still a money loosing proposition but still offered as a convenience? Or are you saying that you offered food free as part of participation? I have seen events run in this manner and can definitely see how this may not contribute to the bottom line.

I do understand what you mean by attention spans. With the clubs I have went to they do loose their appeal after sitting in the sun all day waiting for the gobs and gobs of Conformation groupings to complete just to get to the sporting aspects. Really I do not see how all breed clubs would manage this aspect being the difference in one breed vs. 300+ for the UKC. I certainly imagine the Conformation is setup quite differently to handle this but would believe this still be quite a bit to manage under any arrangement.

I have often thought at the shows I go to why not offer the sporting events on a walk in basis throughout the day. For example many of the shows that I have attended when they have made sporting events available the two primary events were weight pull and treadmill racing and were located directly beside each other where a judge could preside over both easily especially since training for judging can more or less be done on the spot for events that are more result oriented meaning based on measures (weight, distance, time). If anyone has insight on what would be the hurdles of this if any I would love to hear them. I do think making it where there are some events that are scheduled and others that are walk up would help manage and keep attention span better. Under this concept people could still make their scheduled events and take part in the walk up events during their down time.

In regards to charging per event I do think it probably helps to give discounts for multiple registrations but I still think this leaves the mental barrier in participation. As you have stated this is for those already committed. I think the all event pass idea would be beneficial for those that are thinking about it but have not made a mental commitment. It would be the hook to bring them into an event they would likely otherwise not participate in for fear of not doing well, whereas under this concept not doing well is less relevant since they have an all event pass. I do not think this would necessarily hold true for large scale events like agility but would for events that are less encompassing like weight pull and treadmill racing. Maybe it would be something for clubs to think about offering a multi-cost structure similar to what you have done but add in the all event pass option. - Per Event - Multiple Event Discount - All Event Pass.

It does strike me as odd that people in Maine have not head of WP. From what furever_pit has said these seem to be common in all breed clubs as well. I do perceive that they would be less inclined to have them as many people can not imagine hooking up their poodle to a WP. When people think WP they think Pit Bull or at least big dog. The IWPA does pull at practically every size though. This is actually a measurable event that can be compared one breed to another based on weight ratio. A human analogy would be the term pound for pound in boxing. My wife has threatened to put our ShihTzu in a pull. She would pull the world if it meant getting to her ball. Most WP are a little restrictive in baiting however as they require you to be past the finish line or behind the dog whereas some pull events for Pits let you be right there in the face of the dog coaxing it (as long as you do not touch the dog), which I think really kicks in the drive since in the dogs mind it is just another inch away an inch at a time down a 15-16 ft track.

What you have said about clubs and their unwillingness to change is one of the points I brought in my original post. I hope you were not being serious when you said "laughable". If so I think this may be in part why attendance was low. Not just because people did not want to come but they were not feeling welcomed, which was another point I brought in my original post. Kind of like the forum here (not you) where if you offer something new or different people immediately go on the attack instead of being open minded and at least offering some consideration. Honest critique is one thing childish closed minded attacks are another.

I do agree with your statement of why would you want to be part of a club that does not support events you want to trial in. I think clubs would have much more success if they were more open minded, open armed and offer information and training on more events. If for nothing else just offering more event introductions on a trial basis to get feedback. I do realize there are hurdles to this but with a more open minded approach these can be overcome.

You post has been very enlightening. I hope others (especially in clubs) here will read it and see what you have outlined as barriers in participation.

furever_pit wrote:See, I feel I did answer some of your questions...

You are wondering about the working aspects of these dogs. I suggested you look places other than breed specific shows. There are lots of working dog people who couldn't care less about competing in conformation. I will never go to a show just for conformation. My dogs gets shown in the ring because there happens to be a conformation show at a working event that I am already attending.

If you want to see working dogs, go to events that draw working dog owners. :|


Your suggestion is well taken and I will see to try and do this. I will have to research what is offered in the area. As mentioned my experience has been more breed specific. Admittedly this is more limiting but is also down the same road of what the tv series is concerning. I would encourage you to read dlynne1123's post however as the points I have made about breed specific clubs seem to also hold true also for all breed clubs, which is her area of interest.

iluvk9 wrote:AmericanSuprDog, I see you posted the same thread on PBF. What's that all about? :popcorn2:

And kindly don't get snarky with me. I just find it ironic. :dance:


Definitely. My goal is to understand as much as possible. Forums are part of my research and offering my posts allows me to get a full range of understanding as it deals with a full range of demographics and people. If you will check out the posts you will see there is a wide range of responses and these vary by forum. If a researcher was to go to college campuses to do surveys he would not change his survey for each school.

In regards to being snarky I do not believe I have been snarky with anyone who has been fair in their posts even if it has been critical in nature. If so I apologize. For those that are merely here to tear down the efforts of others without any intelligent input I may be a little more short with but I do not feel I have been overly rude beyond what the poster deserved. I must admit your post and follow-up posts seem to have an underlying innuendo? Maybe I read too much into this and my answer, if it was an honest answer you did seek, I hope the ones provided will suffice.

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iluvk9 wrote:Bob, I go there to see who posts the exact same thing here. :giggle:
You're excused since you are acting as a 'mole'. :D
I'd bet he's spamming all the boards with the same drivel. :crazy2:


[/quote]I see no business promoted, I have a link to a non profit organization in my signature that provides more service to animals and Pitbulls in one day than you will provide in a lifetime.[/quote]

Spam? I think to say something was spam would mean that it was off topic with a single intent to sell something that is not related. Posting something of an important related subject matter I do not see as spam. If so maybe an administrator of this forum can define spam better.

And yes promoting a/your business in your signature and then simply doing nothing but one liner post pollution without substance I do perceive as spam. I think your posts mirror your attention span and thus lack of ability to address any issue with seriousness.

As far as my work with Pits you do not know me so for you to make such an ignorant statement truly does show your character.

It is obvious however that you are not interested in honest input as you have offered NONE and you have not answered ANY of the numerous questions from the original post. Based on your responses I really question if being involved with the Pit Bull in a positive manner is at all your consideration. Like you said being a mole is alright by you so maybe you are also a mole for PETA and the transport you promote is a one way ticket to PETAville? From the way you have responded it appears you are just another pile on pack dog instigator as the wording below your avatar suggests.

If you will visit the other forums you will see that every post deals with the issues I have brought forth in a different manner. In every post I have taken the time to address ALL serious issues on an individual basis. If something was about spam I do not think a spam poster would have done this. I do not think being a member here requires exclusivity and I encourage everyone who has a sincere interest in the breed as I do to also be involved with other forums. Being exclusive creates a myopic perspective. With such a perspective it is hard to develop an understanding of how things can change in a more positive direction. We all have something to learn and as you can see in my posts - if you have the attention span - I address serious critique and questions in a serious manner. Will you take the time to read and respond or will you simply continue the one liner attacks showing everyone just what your character is made of?
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Postby Pit♥bull » February 21st, 2011, 6:26 am

I'll just continue the "one line attacks" :) as I dislike trolls as well as spammers.
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Postby hugapitbull » February 21st, 2011, 10:58 am

I've been around forums for more years than I care to count and newsgroups prior to that. I've seen folks like you in both. I avoid your posts like the plague - for the most part.

Your spirit isn't of helping, it is of hurting the general population of the board. Of course, for the most part, only a few will respond to you, and they respond out of somehow thinking there is a way to transform your sorry arse into a viable community member. It never happens.

If you knew the personalities here, you would know the 'mole' comment was a joke, an ongoing one at that. But you haven't been here long enough to know that, nor will you likely be around long enough to learn. There are significant members who have chosen to engage you, and I wish it were a fruitful engagement, but seriously, I doubt it. It is fine and well to focus all your attention on the breed, if in fact that is your intent, but the breed isn't the only focus here. We are people and we interact as people. We have feelings, and for the most part don't try to go out of our way to hurt someone or offend someone. As people, we do not always agree. Some of us can write quite the dissertation, others speak in short couple of liners. That doesn't make what they say any less important, and it really doesn't matter what their writing style is - everyone here has a voice and is heard. Most, like myself, will decided whether or not to spend the time on your topics right up front and move on. All the talk in the world will not change you, your message, or your reason for being here.

If there wasn't an issue with what you are posting, there wouldn't be folks trying to argue your points. They suspect you are not genuine and are either trying to prove themselves wrong, or make you fess up. Either way, the board is their concern as they are contributing long time members. If folks like you are allowed to erode the integrity of the board, one by one long time contributors will find another avenue that is not so argumentative. In my opinion, that would be a sad thing, and a loss to the community.
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Postby mnp13 » February 21st, 2011, 12:10 pm

And again, posting on forums is not "research". The general forum population is already apt to be doing more with their dog, or at least more engaged with outside input than the "average" owner. This forum is more "pet orientated" than some but I still think the members are well above the norm.

I have been going to dog events for the last eight years, most have been multi-breed I have never attended one that had sport events after conformation. There are not enough hours in a day to run any sport after conformation even at the small shows I have been to/competed in.
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 21st, 2011, 9:31 pm

In Maine we don't have UKC WP events at all! At least that have been advertised to All Breed. I have been to non sanctioned events but none UKC in Maine. Every Weight Pull I've attended has been in CT or Very Southern Mass. And all were All Breed. Anywhere from 3 to 6 hours drive for my clients.

As for ADBA, I've heard was mostly bullies. I can't find them in Mass or Maine anymore.

As a trainer and a competitor, I want to offer this to clients and get the same eagerness to try. But pushing a club that has never been to one, or even interested is tough. For two years we have had only several fun pulls in Maine b/c not one club offers it. Every event has been held by motivated but not supported 'training' clubs. Theres been a couple held by the BullDoggers in Central Maine. Thats it.

You tell a local club 'Hey, me and my friends do this sport called WP. You heard of it? Yeah, that sport. We want to have competitions here locally so people learning, don't have to travel to Conn. and hopefully we can get the sport more readily available up here. Yeah its a UKC sport, really! Well, we would all join your club if we could offer this to you. We offer UKC Protection/Police competitors, Rally, and Agility too! We can bring lots to your club." We've been trying for a while now. I am beginning to think its not going to happen! And we have 3,000 lbs in weight, a UKC certified cart and only have classes for fun. But, our dogs don't 'look' pretty so we aren't taken seriously.
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » February 26th, 2011, 4:50 pm

Answered in order of importance not in order of post.

dlynne1123 sorry I am going to cut up your quote but I wanted to be sure to answer each issue of importance.

dlynne1123 wrote:In Maine we don't have UKC WP events at all! At least that have been advertised to All Breed.

Given that Weight Pull is primarily focused on the Pit Bull I do not find that too add. I appreciate your perspective coming from a multi-breed club and see the unique individualities and hurdles multi-breed clubs have and how there are definite differences with single-breed clubs. It is definitely interesting that some of these are the same for both types yet other aspects are different by 180 degrees.

To help refresh others in this discussion I will point out a few examples.

Same hurdles –
Maintaining attention and desire for participation of members.
Finance.
Member reach, recruitment and participation.

180 degree difference –
Mmore breed vs. less breed exclusive or focused.
Time management.

dlynne1123 wrote:I have been to non sanctioned events but none UKC in Maine. Every Weight Pull I've attended has been in CT or Very Southern Mass. And all were All Breed. Anywhere from 3 to 6 hours drive for my clients.


This also underscore some of my points in my initial post. It is also these hurdles that generate opportunity for other organizational structures to exist. For example I would highly encourage you to look into the IWPA as an all breed club that is not registry affiliated for WP info. Being in the NE I would think they are there or with your assistance could see the viability. It would make sense, since they deal in WP and have two different winter divisions Snow and Snow and Wheeled pulls here is a link to their rules: http://www.iwpa.net/Rules.html

Many Pit Bull clubs are reassessing their relationship with registries and are wondering if it is this relationship that contributes to their lack of growth or member participation. Examples of this is how many are now having what they call “fun shows” where registry affiliation is not important. Organizations like IWPA are filling in what they perceive as a doughnut hole in the pet industry. Other organizations are stepping up for all kinds of more specialized events like Agility, Flyball, Obedience, Shutzhund, Disc Dog and many other activities. These organizations are seizing the positive aspects of focused singular events that fully embrace greater participation and more dynamic involvement.

dlynne1123 wrote:As for ADBA, I've heard was mostly bullies. I can't find them in Mass or Maine anymore.


If you are asking it depends on who you ask. Many people are die-hard registry brand oriented. ADBA enthusiasts will deny that statement flat out. Their pride is in the “idea” of a well-conditioned game Pit Bull. Many will also want to deny the change happening in the ADBA since it has changed to an All-Breed club now focusing on over 300 breeds. The brand loyalty that many have given the ADBA is based on 100 years of focused attention on the Pit Bull breed. Now that it is multi-breed and their focus will have to involve more show inclusion it will be interesting to see how they address the new unique hurdles they face while at the same time maintaining their brand loyalty.

To be fair however on their behalf of all types of Pit Bull specific shows they sanction theirs do seem to be more representative of the APBT in its original game standard. Many Conformation participants do not meet the old standard but still more do than other registries.

For more bully oriented shows if this is what people are interested in then ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) events are definitely where a person should go. In fact one of their bragging points is their goal is to eliminate aspects of “game” and this is represented in the many examples of Pit Bulls they represent. Her is a direct quote from their home page. “but traits ….. gameness were bred out of the breed because the breed had no future and purpose for those traits.” http://theabkcdogs.org/

American Super Dog does not agree that there is no purpose. Given the diversity of the Pit Bull community there is room for individuals who wish an active game Pit Bull and those who just want a champion couch warmer. The travesty is/will be when those do wish to be more active do not have the opportunity. This begs the very first original question of the post. “What has the breed become?” and is very relevant to the points within the post of where accountability lies.

dlynne1123 wrote:As a trainer and a competitor, I want to offer this to clients and get the same eagerness to try. But pushing a club that has never been to one, or even interested is tough. For two years we have had only several fun pulls in Maine b/c not one club offers it. Every event has been held by motivated but not supported 'training' clubs. Theres been a couple held by the BullDoggers in Central Maine. Thats it.


dlynne1123 wrote:You tell a local club 'Hey, me and my friends do this sport called WP. You heard of it? Yeah, that sport. We want to have competitions here locally so people learning, don't have to travel to Conn. and hopefully we can get the sport more readily available up here. Yeah its a UKC sport, really! Well, we would all join your club if we could offer this to you. We offer UKC Protection/Police competitors, Rally, and Agility too! We can bring lots to your club." We've been trying for a while now. I am beginning to think its not going to happen! And we have 3,000 lbs in weight, a UKC certified cart and only have classes for fun. But, our dogs don't 'look' pretty so we aren't taken seriously.


Wow that really underscores this point in my original post:
“Is it the fault of local clubs who have failed to market themselves well enough to pull in more members? Who have failed to offer more opportunities of sporting events despite registries lack of sanctioning these? Who have failed to educate their members in the activities available? Who perpetuate a fear of failure by not embracing more participation through training?”

If you have the support and weight equipment you may want to see about starting a local WP and other activity related club. It is not necessary to have registry affiliation. Such comes with perks but also has drawbacks. You may also want to assess value in working with other clubs that are non-registry affiliated such as the IWPA or decide if you wish to be a totally independent club doing your own thing. If you can manage the hurdles of independence you may have a very eager and captive audience and significant potential membership in your area. Independence has the most to offer in terms of opportunity and control whereas affiliation has the benefit of established membership and referrals. It is a classic risk vs. reward scenario for you to consider exploration. If you would like to advertise your training or would like to advertise for yourself as an independent club we will be happy to provide you a free banner on http://www.AmericanSuperDog.com we will be happy to help spread the word for your services as a resource. The only thing we require is that you upload one video as proof for consideration in the series and since the series will be breed specific that the video be of a Pit Bull/Am Staff. The banner itself does not have to be breed specific.

It is posts like yours that are GOLD.

I look forward to your continued input.

mnp13 wrote:And again, posting on forums is not "research". The general forum population is already apt to be doing more with their dog, or at least more engaged
with outside input than the "average" owner. This forum is more "pet orientated" than some but I still think the members are well above the norm.

I have been going to dog events for the last eight years, most have been multi-breed I have never attended one that had sport events after conformation. There are not enough hours in a day to run any sport after conformation even at the small shows I have been to/competed in.


Internet forums are an excellent way to research a topic. In fact research and learning is why people for the most part are involved in forums. They make the perfect vehicle for such individuals due to their ability to ask questions and receive answers and present ideas and receive both positive and critical feedback. In your own words: "apt to be doing more" "more engaged with outside input (than the "average" owner)" and "members are well above the norm."

In regards to dog events if you will recall my original post has been about single breed events not multi-breed. Since the original post I have opened up discussion on the mutli-breed aspect as well as I see many correlating factors. I agree that there probably is not enough time after Conformation at a multi-breed event to hold sporting events either before of after. I even remarked on this in a previous post in this thread with dlynne1123. This is a hurdle that is more registry specific as non-registry clubs have more focus on events as opposed to Conformation. You see in your posts your input has been valuable in understanding some of the differences between single vs. mutli-breed issues and registry vs. club vs. member issues. I am sure it is a challenge for multi-breed registry affiliated clubs to manage things given that they must spread out their attention. I think this is one of the areas where single-breed shows may have the operating and financial advantage. This is also why I put forth the idea in my last post of running the sporting events concurrent with Conformation for registry specific clubs so as to help keep up the excitement and participation level. I think waiting the hours on end to take part in the one Conformation event you may be in leads to boredom and thus is a disincentive for ongoing participation. If you will read the conversations with dlynne1123 this seems to support the theory.

Hugapitbull - Please review your post as it is full of contradiction and double standard. If you have specific points to make that you would like to be addressed that are related to the original topic or expanded topic of single vs. multi-breed I would be happy to have a meaningful and engaging dialogue with you.

Pit♥Bull wrote:I'll just continue the "one line attacks" :) as I dislike trolls as well as spammers.

Please feel free to keep my post on top. I do not mind as it brings in others who do have value added input like dlynne1123 and mnp13. If you want gold you have to be willing to dig through the dirt. As for the personal issues of self-dislike you should seek a therapist.
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Postby DemoDick » February 26th, 2011, 5:35 pm

AmericanSuprDog wrote:A whole buncha words with (maybe) a salient point in there somewhere.


Seriously, use 1/10th as many words and get to the point if you want anyone to understand the point you are trying to make.

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Postby TheRedQueen » February 26th, 2011, 5:36 pm

DemoDick wrote:
AmericanSuprDog wrote:A whole buncha words with (maybe) a salient point in there somewhere.


Seriously, use 1/10th as many words and get to the point if you want anyone to understand the point you are trying to make.

Demo Dick


I don't even read these posts anymore...they're too long, and don't get to the point. It's beyond understanding the point now, it's about wanting to waste my time reading them.
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Postby DemoDick » February 26th, 2011, 5:48 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:
DemoDick wrote:
AmericanSuprDog wrote:A whole buncha words with (maybe) a salient point in there somewhere.


Seriously, use 1/10th as many words and get to the point if you want anyone to understand the point you are trying to make.

Demo Dick


I don't even read these posts anymore...they're too long, and don't get to the point. It's beyond understanding the point now, it's about wanting to waste my time reading them.


I'm going to head off the "you guys have short attention spans and are lazy" criticism now.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
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Postby SisMorphine » February 26th, 2011, 9:07 pm

AmericanSuprDog wrote:Wow that really underscores this point in my original post:
“Is it the fault of local clubs who have failed to market themselves well enough to pull in more members? Who have failed to offer more opportunities of sporting events despite registries lack of sanctioning these? Who have failed to educate their members in the activities available? Who perpetuate a fear of failure by not embracing more participation through training?”

Okay so let's say this was actually the point of your original post. Which is good, we have a point that has actually been separated out and is concise and lacking of the talking in circles. Perfect.

Well I feel that this has been answered by multiple people, and also by yourself. The local clubs you're talking about seem to be single breed and registry related. If you don't want to sit through conformation, and you want to see and encourage dogs to actually go out and do some sort of sport work, whether it be obedience, agility, etc etc etc . . . then look into sport clubs! The clubs I have been a member of have yes, been all breed (the idea of which you seem to be fighting against), and they've also been sport-centered. No, I don't have an APBT, but I do have a bully breed and my dogs prove their working ability, as do all of the rest of the dogs in the clubs I have been in. Though some people may choose to show in conformation, that's not what the group is about so our gatherings are focussed on the working aspect of a dog.

Here I'll lay out what I've done for ya.
Connors' Blue "Blue" CGC, TT, TDInc. (Also training in PP and possibly for PSA and Rally-O, and was the first of his breed who tested and passed for TDInc, and only the 7th to earn his TT)
Oldham's Goddess of War "Teeny" PSA1, CL1-F, CGC (Also training for PP and Rally-O First female of her breed to earn her PDC, first of her breed to compete and title in the PSA1 and in CPE agility).

IF your ultimate goal is to showcase the APBT as a working breed, THEN GET INVOLVED IN WORKING/SPORT CLUBS! Promote the hell out of them and get more APBT owners out and working their damn dogs in something. But if you're going to keep sticking with the registry clubs you're going to be stuck in the conformation cycle that you are trying to get out of. Think outside the box. Well . . . outside of your box. I think for the rest of the people who are into the working aspect of a dog (of any breed) they realize that they need to focus on being a member of a working/sport group to accomplish this.

With my breed I can't compete in AKC, UKC, etc. So none of the events that I attend have conformation shows SO they are only based on the working/sport aspect of the breed. There are plenty of groups out there offering this opportunity and I think that perhaps you need to open yourself to competing outside of the registry world to see more APBTs and other bully breeds doing sport work.
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