Hey Humble Chief

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby DemoDick » January 28th, 2011, 6:48 pm

Thought I'd continue this for you somewhere besides your intro thread.

Humble Chief wrote:yeah,no titles newyorker....assume what u will..Site has not been updated yet,AND?....& the style of dog u have dont make u a backyard breeder...JUDGE TO BE JUDGED...Thanks


First of all, I can barely read this garbage. Second, you don't have titles. If you did you would have listed them. Third, there is no such thing as "style" of Pit Bull. The dog either fits the breed standard or he doesn't, and if he doesn't and you breed him anyway, odds are you are backyard breeder. And finally, I'm not a New Yorker.

From your intro thread:

HUMBLE CHIEF wrote:MNP13.....Thanks for explaining.....(our breed is over run with irresponsible breeders. Way to many people breed with no thought to health, temperament or anything else. )..This is true..Temperament,genetics,health,blood,peds,structure,ect.are all taken into consideration before any breeding takes place at Humble Kennels...So i take it, what i assumed to be judgement of others from board managers,can be looked at as just a precaution,right?...Ok..well i like boards like this where it shows the positive side of our breed & not the stereo type...


Here's a chance for you to post a picture and/or video of what you believe a structurally correct dog is, preferably a dog you have bred, as well a detailed explanation of your criteria for breeding.

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Postby plebayo » January 29th, 2011, 2:11 am

I'd definitely be interested in hearing more and would like to know what separates you from the rest of the Pit Bull breeders out there who breed because they can. I'd also like to know how you think you're improving the breed with your breeding program.
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 29th, 2011, 10:02 am

I like to see some stacked photos of the dogs and puppies...from the side since I see a lot of fronts and sitting pics.
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Postby HUMBLE CHIEF » February 9th, 2011, 12:34 pm

Ill make this real quick...DEMODICK :rolleyes2: Sorry if u cant read. :crazy2: .Pick up a book during your free time.YOU ARE GARBAGE.I never said i had titles.You dont know what i have going on JUDGE.
[b]REDQUEEN.I really dont mind posting stack/side shots at all & I will.After being on this board one day,i have all of these judgemental ppl coming at me because my site/my dogs/my views are not what they like.So picks will not justify anything...
PLEBAYO.I breed for temperment i like,drive i like,structure i like,attitude i like in dogs.Backyard breeder?.I say,call me what u want. :dance:

Enjoy the rest of yall day folks.
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Postby LMM » February 9th, 2011, 12:55 pm

So that about sums it up.
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Postby TinaMartin » February 9th, 2011, 1:13 pm

HUMBLE CHIEF wrote:Ill make this real quick...DEMODICK :rolleyes2: Sorry if u cant read. :crazy2: .Pick up a book during your free time.YOU ARE GARBAGE.I never said i had titles.You dont know what i have going on JUDGE.
[b]REDQUEEN.I really dont mind posting stack/side shots at all & I will.After being on this board one day,i have all of these judgemental ppl coming at me because my site/my dogs/my views are not what they like.So picks will not justify anything...
PLEBAYO.I breed for temperment i like,drive i like,structure i like,attitude i like in dogs.Backyard breeder?.I say,call me what u want. :dance:

Enjoy the rest of yall day folks.

I think someone needs to get off their high horse. I personally think you were asked very valid questions.
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Postby HUMBLE CHIEF » February 9th, 2011, 1:24 pm

LMM...U right..
TINAMARTIN...U right also. 8)
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Postby TinaMartin » February 9th, 2011, 1:38 pm

So when do you plan on answering Demos questions? I can tell you he knows a pile about structure and temperament. I also follow the same guide lines about temperament, working and structure as he does though not quite as "harsh". Would be very interested to find out the why and how you go about picking dogs for breeding. And just to clarify because the dog is nice doesn't cut it. I would be interested in background, genetics, the reason you feel the dogs are a good match etc.
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Postby mnp13 » February 9th, 2011, 1:56 pm

First of all, we don't allow personal attacks here, so consider yourself warned.

Second breeding for "what you like" makes you no different than the "breeder" down the street from me who sells a few litters of little furry mutts a year. After all, she likes them doesn't she?

The breed standard is rather specific, and since the entire breed was founded to be the ultimate athlete, anything that is less than that need not apply for "breeding status".

And if your dogs are good enough to justify making more of them why aren't they titled in their actual registry?
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 9th, 2011, 5:50 pm

I'll be waiting to see those stacked pics...as it's hard to tell how good the structure is from the sitting pics. I have many reservations about them, due to things I can see in the pics that are posted, but I'm curious to see what the full body shots look like.

I myself have dogs with some really crappy structural issues...one that personally got torn apart by Pat Hastings herself, but...a big but, I'm not breeding them. So yeah, I hate to see awful structure on a dog that is being bred, regardless of breed or type.
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Postby Rossignol » February 10th, 2011, 11:02 am

I may be the last person who should say anything, except that I'm going to speak from my own experiences and "learning curve" if you will. Not that there is really any room for a learning curve. Please allow my thorough lack of understanding and naivete early on be an example.

I grew up with AKC and law enforcement K9 trained Dobes. A breeding here and there wasnt too big a deal with my family, it wasnt very often. Sometimes pups went back into the law enforcement training.

Jenny (my wife) and I have had American Bulldogs for years now. Early on, we figured some conformation titles were enough to vouch for a quality breeding. Temperaments are excellent! Nice conformation too, good breathers, great dentition, good angulation and generally very good overall proportion to the standard.

However, conformation cant tell you about genetic issues. Only genetic testing can do that. Good muscle and athleticism can hide bad hips. And is the case with the standard for working dogs, can they work? Another issue is breeding away from the standard. I dont know enough about American Bullies, but are they judged by a different standard than pit bulls? They are vastly different in appearance which is why I ask. The same issues have come up with American Bulldogs too, with bigger heads and bodies, more wrinkles and the haws of the eyes visible and generally more mastiff in appearance. They were changed enough they no longer looked like the smaller more nimble working dog and another standard was established. Not a huge deal in its self accept that the changes have affected the overall health too. Breeding for color is another thing that leads to serious recessive health issues.

So we produced two litters. We produced one cow hocked dog, and a couple with bad eyes, one of which was put down. I replaced the dog, but not by doing another breeding. I allowed the owner to choose a pup from another breeder, and I paid for it. I realized, I'm not able to do the genetic testing and trialing my dogs in any work, though I have begun with some protection and weight pull, it isnt enough, not by the standards I have now set for myself. We have a 3 year old male which championed UKC at 10 mos old. He's not been bred nor will he be. I refuse to breed at this point. Our dogs are great, and perfect for us and our family, but we're content with taking them camping hiking and hunting.

I dont want to be preachy about breeding. There are however very right and wrong ways to do it, and I flatly refuse to do it the wrong way ever again. Far too much heartache, and I'm not the kind to cull hard.

Anyhow, my 2 cents, my experiences... and things I learned along the way after making mistakes. Lord knows I'm just sharing what I've been through and I'm in no position to tell someone else how to do it.

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out,
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Postby HUMBLE CHIEF » February 10th, 2011, 11:49 am

we don't allow personal attacks here, so consider yourself warned.
Got your warning.
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Postby HUMBLE CHIEF » February 10th, 2011, 11:52 am

Rossignol wrote:I may be the last person who should say anything, except that I'm going to speak from my own experiences and "learning curve" if you will. Not that there is really any room for a learning curve. Please allow my thorough lack of understanding and naivete early on be an example.

I grew up with AKC and law enforcement K9 trained Dobes. A breeding here and there wasnt too big a deal with my family, it wasnt very often. Sometimes pups went back into the law enforcement training.

Jenny (my wife) and I have had American Bulldogs for years now. Early on, we figured some conformation titles were enough to vouch for a quality breeding. Temperaments are excellent! Nice conformation too, good breathers, great dentition, good angulation and generally very good overall proportion to the standard.

However, conformation cant tell you about genetic issues. Only genetic testing can do that. Good muscle and athleticism can hide bad hips. And is the case with the standard for working dogs, can they work? Another issue is breeding away from the standard. I dont know enough about American Bullies, but are they judged by a different standard than pit bulls? They are vastly different in appearance which is why I ask. The same issues have come up with American Bulldogs too, with bigger heads and bodies, more wrinkles and the haws of the eyes visible and generally more mastiff in appearance. They were changed enough they no longer looked like the smaller more nimble working dog and another standard was established. Not a huge deal in its self accept that the changes have affected the overall health too. Breeding for color is another thing that leads to serious recessive health issues.

So we produced two litters. We produced one cow hocked dog, and a couple with bad eyes, one of which was put down. I replaced the dog, but not by doing another breeding. I allowed the owner to choose a pup from another breeder, and I paid for it. I realized, I'm not able to do the genetic testing and trialing my dogs in any work, though I have begun with some protection and weight pull, it isnt enough, not by the standards I have now set for myself. We have a 3 year old male which championed UKC at 10 mos old. He's not been bred nor will he be. I refuse to breed at this point. Our dogs are great, and perfect for us and our family, but we're content with taking them camping hiking and hunting.

I dont want to be preachy about breeding. There are however very right and wrong ways to do it, and I flatly refuse to do it the wrong way ever again. Far too much heartache, and I'm not the kind to cull hard.

Anyhow, my 2 cents, my experiences... and things I learned along the way after making mistakes. Lord knows I'm just sharing what I've been through and I'm in no position to tell someone else how to do it.

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out,
Brad.


Thanks alot for sharing this..respect goes out to you for responding in a mature manner..
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Postby mnp13 » February 10th, 2011, 1:05 pm

Not that I didn't respect you before Brad, but wow. What you have done is impressive in my opinion, very impressive.
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Postby DemoDick » February 10th, 2011, 7:02 pm

TinaMartin wrote:So when do you plan on answering Demos questions?


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Postby TinaMartin » February 11th, 2011, 10:09 am

I would also be interested in knowing what kinds of health testing you do to make sure your dogs are structurally sound and without genetic defects.
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Postby Rossignol » February 11th, 2011, 1:37 pm

HUMBLE CHIEF wrote:Thanks alot for sharing this..respect goes out to you for responding in a mature manner..


Sure thing, youre welcome, but please dont misunderstand me as thinking anyone else here has responded any less maturely. They are still valid questions that should be answered. Maybe not to anyone here, unless of course you are going to post pups or advertise here. At least ask yourself these questions and try to answer them, unlesss the latter is the case and then folks here deserve the courtesy of a response.

There may be some backlash, but I promise, this forum is not the exception to the rule in that regard. However, if you are doing the things perspective buyers demand, you have nothing to worry about.

The sting in any rebuke, is the truth. Another hard learned lesson.
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Postby BigDogBuford » February 11th, 2011, 3:41 pm

Every time I'm talking to someone who's thinking about breeding I tell them my friends story. They had two English Mastiff's they wanted to breed (nice dogs, but no testing of course). They were planning on waiting until the females second heat to breed her. She went into her first heat and they decided to put the male in the front yard and the female in the back yard and keep them separated by their house.

The male chewed through the foundation of the house to get to the female. Yes, you read that correctly. He chewed *through* their house. They ended up with one surviving pup via c-section. Both dogs were altered shortly there after. :dance:
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Postby DemoDick » February 11th, 2011, 7:40 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:Every time I'm talking to someone who's thinking about breeding I tell them my friends story. They had two English Mastiff's they wanted to breed (nice dogs, but no testing of course). They were planning on waiting until the females second heat to breed her. She went into her first heat and they decided to put the male in the front yard and the female in the back yard and keep them separated by their house.

The male chewed through the foundation of the house to get to the female. Yes, you read that correctly. He chewed *through* their house. They ended up with one surviving pup via c-section. Both dogs were altered shortly there after. :dance:


He got all sexed up and retard strong. It happens.

Demo Dick
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Postby BigDogBuford » February 11th, 2011, 8:03 pm

They can be some seriously strong hormones. Sometimes despite our best efforts, Mother Nature will just have her way with you and there's nothing you can do about it.




edited because I can spel gud.
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