Recruiting Pit Bulls for America's Got Talent and TV series

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Postby Jenn » January 24th, 2011, 12:24 am

:wave2: Hello and a big welcome! That is some serious snow eating Camo is doing :giggle:
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » January 24th, 2011, 12:31 am

She is snow crazy. I am not sure exactly how she makes her mind up what is the right snow to eat. She just runs around like an out of control backhoe. Its funny. Nothing takes priority over the snow. Stick - nope, rope - nope, ball - nope. Just snow when its snowing.
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Postby SisMorphine » January 24th, 2011, 2:45 pm

Welcome!! Camo is too cute! But then again, I have a soft spot for spotty dogs ;)
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Postby mnp13 » January 24th, 2011, 3:57 pm

She's pretty. What's she mixed with?
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » January 24th, 2011, 4:59 pm

She is pure bred Pit Bull with a lineage stretching back by pedigree for 11 generations. The fallacy that the Merle is not pure to the breed was actually started in 2005 by a man called Scott Dowd who was commissioned to do a study on the trait by the UKC and AKC with the purpose of defaming the gene to give them credence to have it removed from registration consideration as they felt is was being promoted based on fad. In his report he used an opinion statement by another biased individual individual that the trait came from the Catahoula. The fact however is that the Catahoula came from mixing Pit bulls with the Catahoula Leopard Dog, which also expressed the Merle gene. Making this correlation made it easy to make the false statement the the Merle was not pure to the breed seem plausible especially to those who were not researched on the topic. To further ad viability to the reason why it should not be continued for those who were wise the the deception additional false claims on the health aspect were made, which have now also been debunked.

The UKC and ADBA unilaterally acted on his suggestion as this was their underlying motive and then changed their standard in 2005 to no longer accept it. The ADBA has backtracked some and has admitted to this and says that they can verify its lineage but have not back tracked far enough to once again accept it still falling on the false claims of health issues. The health issues that were mentioned were more likely the cause of reviewing examples of inbreeding, as all conditions listed are known negative side effects of the inbreeding practice.

The Merle Pit Bull has been documented and placed in pictures in Colb's book as well as Strattons from 1976 and direct references made as far back as the 30's shortly after its acceptance as a term to describe a color/pattern as noted by Merriam-Webster in 1911 - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/merle%5B2%5D

The oldest physical standard for the breed is 1937 AKC standard and clearly states any color and pattern for both the coat and eyes. The older UKC physical standard pre -2005 also states this.

Unfortunately the myth that Scott Dowd created and continues to profess on his sight in an obviously biased manner has taken hold in part due to people's inability to locate the older standards of conformation by the UKC and ADBA or their unwillingness to do greater research into its history. This will likely go down in the book of old wives tales and continue to be perpetuated and believed the same right along side the myth of the locking jaw.
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Postby mnp13 » January 24th, 2011, 5:23 pm

I have many historical Pit Bull books, and no photos of merle dogs come to mind. But I'm not going to argue with you.

And there is no "fallacy" of the dangers of merle breedings. Merle + Merle creates genetic problems that lead to deafness and blindness. No inbreeding necessary.
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Postby AmericanSuprDog » January 25th, 2011, 12:11 am

mnp13 wrote:I have many historical Pit Bull books, and no photos of merle dogs come to mind. But I'm not going to argue with you.

And there is no "fallacy" of the dangers of merle breedings. Merle + Merle creates genetic problems that lead to deafness and blindness. No inbreeding necessary.


Please do not take this as an argument but a discussion. I am just a fan and historian of the breed and have studied it deeply through hundreds of pedigrees and historical documentation.

Pictures:
Stratton printed 1976 "This Is The American Pit Bull Terrier" p.50 a drawing dated 1962

Colby printed 1999 "Colby's Book Of The American Pit Bull Terrier" p.164

Fat Bills 2 eyes also was a Merle. I have read he was blind in one eye but I am not sure how true this was. He may have been blind or maybe people just thought he was blind based on the coloration of his Merle eye. I recently saw Fat Bill at a show in TN and would have loved to ask him if this was a reality or a myth. I was not discussing Merle with anyone at the time so I did not think to ask. A review of his pedigree however does show significant inbreeding so it would be hard to make an accurate determination if he was blind what the actual cause was.

The ADBA also recognizes the Merle as part of the Pit Bull history: "In talking to breeders and doing additional research, it is apparent that this color pattern is not "new’ to the breed. What is new to the breed is using the correct term merle to describe this color pattern. In 2001 at the urging of our fanciers, a list of ‘ACCEPTED TERMS TO DESCRIBE COLORS’ was adopted in an effort to enhance common understanding among fanciers of the breed. Up to this time these dogs with the merle color pattern were described as spotted, mottled, incorrectly as brindle , and in some incidences not addressed in the color description of the dog at all. In formulating the ‘ACCEPTED TERMS TO DESCRIBE COLORS’ within our breed, the ADBA sought out breeders and did a literature search of accepted canine references to come up with the terms that would be accepted to most accurately describe colors and color patterns. It was felt at that time, that the most accurate description of this color pattern is the term ‘merle’. In certain bloodlines we have verified merle dogs back four and five generations in the pedigree. " - http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=47

And yes you are correct Merle + Merle does have negative health effects potentially associated with it. Most Pit Bull Merle breeders however know this potential condition and stay away from it. Merle by itself though as in Merle to non-Merle there is no proven negative health implications. I have seen many examples of these. Not for sure if the Merle to Merle is true or not as I have not seen any proof of such a breeding in the Pit Bull community. I would love to hear what other breed owners where Merle is accepted who have bred Merle to Merle have to say as well as any proof they can provide. I do not discount the possibility on it. What is interesting however is that the same ADBA and UKC that deny the Merle for the Pit Bull breed and yet recognize its history within the breed openly register other breeds where the gene is known to exist. If they truly believe their argument on health why do they contradict their self with these other breeds and continue with their registration?

To use the health argument to justify the eliminating it from the breed however was propaganda. If they were serious about wanting to eliminate negative health impact they would also not register other breeds with the gene and would have also addressed inbreeding. To address inbreeding however and systematically un-register dogs as they did the Merle Pit Bull and its ancestry would have decimated their stud books and thus practically put themselves out of business. There are over 500 genetic illnesses that could be virtually eliminated simply by stopping inbreeding, yet very few registries or breeders are willing to honestly deal with the inbreeding issue and recognize what science has proven.

Their whole attempt was specifically aimed at eliminating Merle however for no other true reason than they felt it was a fad. This same type of propaganda at one time also almost had the Old Family Red Nose depleted to extinction. Fortunately Dan McCoy, Bob Hemphill and Gaboon Trahan understood what was going on, acquired some of the last of the strain and brought it back. Now it is one of the most popular.
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Postby CinderDee » January 27th, 2011, 5:10 am

Hi & welcome Lewis. Camo is a lovely dog. I hope you enjoy yourself here. :)
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Postby DemoDick » January 27th, 2011, 9:08 pm

I have some sweet videos of my working dog, Connor, posted to youtube, that not only disprove the locking jaw myth, but also show better control and precision than 99% of police and MWD's.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DemoDick1#p/u/3/3UGcqlLEUMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRyau9byvJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzKe88x8 ... re=related

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Postby AmericanSuprDog » January 27th, 2011, 11:15 pm

DemoDick wrote:I have some sweet videos of my working dog, Connor, posted to youtube, that not only disprove the locking jaw myth, but also show better control and precision than 99% of police and MWD's.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DemoDick1#p/u/3/3UGcqlLEUMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRyau9byvJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzKe88x8 ... re=related

Demo Dick


Those are some nice vids. Great control. I would love to see the police and military take greater consideration on the breed. Many people do not know that a team of military dogs can clear a building several times faster than a human force. Its funny (sad) how the Pit Bull is the most decorated breed in the military's history, was once the nations mascot in warfare and now they will not even consider it.

Currently we are not really encouraging things like hangtime/springpole or Shutzhund /Protection work yet. We believe these are great Pit Bull activities but unfortunately for those ignorant on the breed (which will be many of the first time viewers) and possibly wanting to target it in a negative way (such as politicians supporting BSL) this gives them ammunition to say junk like "that could be a kid" or "no wonder if they lock their jaws on you..." We all know the trash talk the breed gets. We hope that as the TV series grows we can then introduce these kind of activities in a more positive light but we have to first work on promoting their image in the most positive manner possible.

Do you have any other vids of non-bitework training?

Good to hear from you and the many other Pit Bull enthusiasts. We hope we can get some good responses and help spread the message about the many positives the breed has to offer.
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Postby mnp13 » January 28th, 2011, 12:07 am

Ok - discussion goes elsewhere on the board please. This section is just for intros... and most of the membership never reads it. :) I wouldn't want anyone missing out!
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Postby iluvk9 » January 28th, 2011, 6:47 am

Men never listen, Michelle. :dance:
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Postby shady-angel » February 26th, 2011, 10:54 pm

Welcome super dog, Bit to lecturing for me but this shouldn't be posted here! Others can tell you were to post this.
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