Definition of working dog?

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 21st, 2011, 12:32 pm

What do you all consider a "working" dog? Is it a dog that does therapy work? Sports? All sport or certain sports? Obedience/rally/conformation? Just curious. :)
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby TheRedQueen » January 21st, 2011, 12:56 pm

To me, it's a dog that has a job or major hobby...not just a dog that plays fetch or dabbles in a sport, but one that practices at least once a week, that is constantly working at that sport...or job. Sawyer is on-call 24/7...so any Service/Assistance dog is considered a "working" dog to me...because he always has to be ready.

Score and Xander are also always on call...and work for John in the house, whereas Sawyer goes everywhere with John. All three, I'd consider working dogs.

Dogs that have a sport or hobby (flyball, agility, disc, etc) I consider more "sport" dogs...rather than working dogs. Inara and Figgy, I consider sport dogs...not working dogs. Rip is just retired, so we don't call him anything, unless it's for dinner.

I just kind of rambled there, so to clarify...I think detection dogs, K9 police dogs, Assistance Dogs, etc...all would be considered "working" dogs in my mind. Dogs that are on-call and working through most of the day. Dogs that trial, go to tournaments, etc...are sport dogs in my mind.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby DemoDick » January 21st, 2011, 1:34 pm

I don't consider what the dog does, I consider how the owner interacts with the dog and the overall structure of the relationship. A working dog's life is structured to maximize performance at whatever task the owner asks of the dog, and to optimize the working relationship between dog and handler.

If someone places no real expectations on the dog outside of "don't crap in the house" and "don't eat my shoes", that's a pet. As soon as you start asking the dog to do something as a condition of his keep, then he starts to become a working dog.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby Malli » January 21st, 2011, 1:36 pm

IMO, its any dog that has a job(any of the "helper"/assist dogs, sniffer dogs, police K9's etc - including Protection sports, simply because of how much is involved in training for a dog there, it really becomes his job.)
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07
User avatar
Malli
E-I-E-I-O!
 
Posts: 6341
Location: CANADA EH?

Postby amazincc » January 21st, 2011, 2:27 pm

DemoDick wrote: As soon as you start asking the dog to do something as a condition of his keep, then he starts to become a working dog.
Demo Dick


Practicing NILIF is considered "working" then? :?
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby DemoDick » January 21st, 2011, 3:12 pm

amazincc wrote:
DemoDick wrote: As soon as you start asking the dog to do something as a condition of his keep, then he starts to become a working dog.
Demo Dick


Practicing NILIF is considered "working" then? :?


It's actually the beginning of it. Every good working dog defaults to NILIF type behaviors, because they understand that everything good in their life is earned.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby FAB dogs » January 21st, 2011, 6:53 pm

IMO, dogs that are bred/kept to do what the breed was originally developed for rather than one that does it for titles, competitions, etc. A border collie that actually works sheep in the field for a farmer/shepherd. A husky that is used for actually pulling sleds or maybe even at a resort with tourists (like horses on dude ranches). A lab that works with a hunter who hunts for his own reasons rather than for hunter titles. Etc. Any dog that does it for titles, competitions, etc strikes me as a sporting dog; along with the agility, flyball, weight pulling dog and so on.
Tina
Avery - Southpawz Elf Queen, CGC- Siberian Psycho Terrier
Brogan - Southpawz Mystery Man, CGC - Ephelis Spaniel
Fenway - Southpawz 4 Yawkey Way -Bull Collie
And the crazy cats
User avatar
FAB dogs
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 70

Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 21st, 2011, 8:10 pm

Tina, so a pit bull could never be a working dog unless it was being fought?

(playing devil's advocate here!)
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby furever_pit » January 21st, 2011, 8:21 pm

I think there are different types of working dogs. Working dogs with a "real" job: Police K9s, detection dogs, Search and Rescue, farm herders, and service dogs. Dogs that work for sport: protection sports, weight pull, competition herding, agility, competition obedience, etc. And within those dogs there are further levels of working dogs, dependent on how often they train, how often they trial, and what they specialize in. I consider dogs that participate in sport to still be "working dogs" because that really is their job. The dog is expected to learn the sport and then be a successful competitor. In my experience, there are a number of dogs that participate in the protection sports and also work in security or go on to be sold to police or military departments.

"Sport dog" is also a commentary on a dog's temperament or they way they perform in the protection sports in some circles. Sometimes you will hear people talk about a "sport dog" versus a "real dog".
User avatar
furever_pit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1138
Location: NC

Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 21st, 2011, 8:23 pm

Allison, I'm not familiar with the "sport dog" vs. "real dog" thing. Which is preferable in protection sports?
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby mnp13 » January 21st, 2011, 8:43 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Allison, I'm not familiar with the "sport dog" vs. "real dog" thing. Which is preferable in protection sports?


Now that all depends on who you ask... and your definition.

For me a sport dog is one of the ones that can't function in real life. The ones that spin in their crates, can't ever settle down, can't ever be calm. That's regardless of the sport involved. If your agility dog is a jittery, neurotic mess, even if it competes at high levels, it's still not a working dog in my opinion.

"Working dogs" do jobs, and when they are done with those jobs they are able to turn off. In my opinion, a dog that can't shut off is not a "functional" dog in the real world. And, to me, being functional is part of it.

As for "real dog" well, that's another thing entirely. If you're referring to a "real dog" in protection, to me, it's a dog that knows what a threat is and takes care of it... and when there isn't a threat, the dog is friendly (or at least neutral.)

There are plenty of people who say their Schutzhund III dog is a "real dog" but that same dog will only bite a sleeve on the left arm of the "bad guy" (like that fantastic video of the police dog circling the criminal looking for a bite sleeve.) I believe protection dogs are "working dogs" even when they don't compete or have titles, even if they are normal house dogs most of the time. I would consider Connor to be a "working dog," because he outs and listens. I don't consider Riggs to be one, not because he wouldn't bite if necessary (I have z-e-r-o) doubt about that, but because there are circumstances where he must be crated and other times where he just plain doesn't listen.

All of the above, of course, does not apply to military or sentry dogs, as they clearly have a job and that is eating people... so being neutral to strangers is not in the definition.

And yes, there are police dogs out there who are sport dogs, unfortunately.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby furever_pit » January 21st, 2011, 8:57 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Allison, I'm not familiar with the "sport dog" vs. "real dog" thing. Which is preferable in protection sports?


This is my understanding of the difference:
"Sport dogs" are dogs that perform well on the trial field and are good at playing the 'game' but they lack the seriousness to get it done for real. These dogs tend to be locked in prey drive and many of them are equipment oriented; they lack true aggression.
"Real dogs" are dogs that their owners or friends or whatever suspect would bite in a real-life situation. These dogs tend to be a little more defensive in their work and will engage a man with no equipment on. These dogs are more aggressive by nature. It can be more difficult to get high scores with these dogs because of their attitude, but that is not always the case.

Personally, I think calling a dog "real" is pretty stupid unless it has actually taken a live bite. Cause really, how else are you going to know? It's all just speculation up until that point. And if my dog isn't "real" does that make him fake? lol

Different people are going to prefer different things. If you are in it for points, a sport dog may be the dog for you. Personally, I like dogs that have a balance. I want a dog that can do well in the sports but I also want a dog that sees it as more than just a game. This is why I like bloodlines that have shown success in both the sports as well as police and military departments, I feel like they are more well-rounded.
User avatar
furever_pit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1138
Location: NC

Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 21st, 2011, 9:03 pm

Thank you both!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby FAB dogs » January 21st, 2011, 9:52 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Tina, so a pit bull could never be a working dog unless it was being fought?

(playing devil's advocate here!)


Okay so maybe I didn't think it all the way through. :D But in a way, yes. The way I see it, is that a pit bull herding sheep isn't a "working" pit bull, it would be more of a "hobby" for the dog. Because it isn't working in the vocation the breed was developed for.

Of course by that logic, I suppose a breed developed as a companion dog would be considered a working dog if it were just sitting on the couch next to its human. Not much work going on there, huh?

So perhaps I need to rethink my definition of working. Or not get so hung up on the definition of the word.
Tina
Avery - Southpawz Elf Queen, CGC- Siberian Psycho Terrier
Brogan - Southpawz Mystery Man, CGC - Ephelis Spaniel
Fenway - Southpawz 4 Yawkey Way -Bull Collie
And the crazy cats
User avatar
FAB dogs
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 70

Postby SisMorphine » January 22nd, 2011, 1:09 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Allison, I'm not familiar with the "sport dog" vs. "real dog" thing. Which is preferable in protection sports?

For me the difference is basic: will the dog take a man in a real life threatening situation? If yes, it's a "real dog."

Most dogs who compete in protection sports have high prey drive because it makes it far easier to train them. Personally I would rather have a dog that would take a man for real and embarrass me on the field *cough*Blue*cough* than a dog who looks like sheer perfection on the field, yet if put in front of a real threat would have no clue what to do, or even worse, would back up from it.

But I also didn't choose my breed for sport work, I just happened to end up playing it with them.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9231

Postby TinaMartin » January 23rd, 2011, 2:38 pm

My definition of a working dog is a dog that has an active job. I include service, rescue, competition sports, weight pull ect. I concider dogs that sit at home and just act as a pet under the catigory of companion dogs. I think there are cases where dogs can be both.
Not only am I a member of the Michelle says my dog is fat club I'm the president!
I can Alpha Roll hair!
User avatar
TinaMartin
The Hair Whisperer
 
Posts: 1240
Location: Rochester NY

Postby Leslie H » January 23rd, 2011, 10:12 pm

Where does a dog's work ethic come into play? It wasn't until I met some dogs w/out any work ethic that I really started thinking about it. A willingness to do something and to persevere on a challenging task. Does a dog discriminate between sport (most bitework, agility, weight pull) and real work (working police dog, assistance dog, flock guardian)? I've seen dogs work at a challenging sport, like a Ring III routine, w/a committment to task that I think is comparable to the efforts put forth by real working dogs. So, if it's "real work" in the dog's mind, is it a working dog?
User avatar
Leslie H
Queen of Weight Pull
 
Posts: 372
Location: NW CT

Postby TheRedQueen » January 24th, 2011, 9:09 am

Leslie H wrote:Where does a dog's work ethic come into play? It wasn't until I met some dogs w/out any work ethic that I really started thinking about it. A willingness to do something and to persevere on a challenging task. Does a dog discriminate between sport (most bitework, agility, weight pull) and real work (working police dog, assistance dog, flock guardian)? I've seen dogs work at a challenging sport, like a Ring III routine, w/a committment to task that I think is comparable to the efforts put forth by real working dogs. So, if it's "real work" in the dog's mind, is it a working dog?


My gang throws themselves whole-heartedly into ANYTHING that we try...including The Wiener. But I still don't consider him a "working" dog. He works harder than most dogs at flyball, considering the 7" jumps are higher than his shoulder height...and he leaps up onto the box to catch his ball. But I still consider him a sport dog...as he doesn't HAVE to play flyball (it's his choice whether he likes it or not). If he were on the road, playing for real on a weekly basis, like a professional athlete, sure...he'd be a working dog. But since he's a weekend warrior, and practices once a week and competes monthly, I consider him a sport dog.

Sawyer (Service Dog) on the other hand, is constantly on-call for his job...he's on 24/7, and wasn't really given a choice in the matter. He can't just say..."oh, I don't want to today". (I mean, he can...but it disrupts John's entire day).
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby StalkerBlueDog » January 24th, 2011, 2:05 pm

You may or may not care about my thoughts because I have a very different breed then most of you. So this is my opinion based on the sheltie world.

In my breed I feel we have "show dogs", "performance dogs", "Versatile dogs" (the true sheltie in my opinion) and "working dogs"

"Show dogs" are simply that. Dogs that show and look pretty and have no other demands made upon them. They are asked to help create well structured offspring. They are sometimes asked to be breed ambassadors(sometimes giving an incorrect picture of what a sheltie is to the general public if they just opened up the newspaper and bought one). And that's it. Temperment may be effected due to wanting a dog that "shows" and is overly friendly instead of a dog that is slightly aloof.. or a skittish dog's temperment may be overlooked due to being pretty (which is NOT correct sheltie temperment)

"Performance dogs" are dogs that compete in any dog sport. Herding, flyball, agility, obedience, tracking, lure coursing, etc. on a regular basis. They are trained and selected for their abilities to do these specific sports. Structure and temperment may be selected just for these tasks. They may not be able to these jobs into their later lives due to this. They may or may not have an off switch.

"Versatility dogs" are dogs that have correct structure, look like the breed type, but also can work. They can do a variety of jobs and step up to do any task you ask them. These dogs have an off switch. They can go between venues and still focus on the task at hand.A sheltie is supposed to be a versatile farm dog. Not a couch potato.. but they should also be able to settle into the family home at the end of they day. These dogs are also able to continue to do the jobs you ask them into their later years due to being well structured. a 10 yr old sheltie should still be able to work (if properly worked and not over worked/pushed into injury)

"Working dogs" to me are a dog that has a true job that they are called on to do daily. A sheltie that herds, flushes birds from crops (or fields/golf courses/air ports etc in modern days) does therapy dog work, is a service dog (epilepsy dog, hearing dog, diabeties alert dog, etc.), does airport searches, or does Search and Rescue work. (i'd put police dogs in there too but you don't see many sheltie police dogs..lol)
Jill Rakin CPDT-KA
"DAWN" U-CH Canami's Age of Aquarius CD RE AX OAJ NF CGC/TDI (1/3 AXJ, 1/5 U-GRCH, MACH pt'd)
"KAYLEE" U-CH Canami's Protector of Serenity (AKC major Pt'd)
"LEIA" Sorella's Rebel Princess (UKC pt'd)
"LUKE"Canami Sorella's A New Hope RN
User avatar
StalkerBlueDog
My dog can kick your sheep's ass
 
Posts: 292
Location: Canandaigua NY

Postby StalkerBlueDog » January 24th, 2011, 2:13 pm

That being said, in my own house I see Dawn as a mix of a versatility dog and a working dog. She is a multiple venue dog that is well structured with an off switch, but is also a working therapy dog in my nursing home. She is called upon to do things she's not always comfortable with but tolerates to make me (and the residents) happy. For example she's not a dog that likes to be hugged.. she won't just sit on your lap and cuddle (like her son) but if someone is having a bad day and she chooses to approach them, and they scoop her up and hug her, she does her job and tolerates it. Hope that makes sense..
Jill Rakin CPDT-KA
"DAWN" U-CH Canami's Age of Aquarius CD RE AX OAJ NF CGC/TDI (1/3 AXJ, 1/5 U-GRCH, MACH pt'd)
"KAYLEE" U-CH Canami's Protector of Serenity (AKC major Pt'd)
"LEIA" Sorella's Rebel Princess (UKC pt'd)
"LUKE"Canami Sorella's A New Hope RN
User avatar
StalkerBlueDog
My dog can kick your sheep's ass
 
Posts: 292
Location: Canandaigua NY

Next

Return to Sports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron