Dar and Pigeon "PLAY""?

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Postby ArtGypsy » January 17th, 2011, 2:57 pm

Alrighty Then.................

Pigeon hasn't been here quite a month yet, and with such a small house we've had several well timed as well as ill timed 'meetings' between the two dogs.
There are times when Dar is tethered and Pigeon will walk by and Dar won't do much but move his eyebrows in very roguish sort of way; and there are times when I could SWEAR both dogs are too tired to MOVE, and I'll go to let Pigeon in from outside (holding on to her collar), and Dar will spring to life with very loud, intense barking and wailing.
Sometimes she 'shakes' like she's afraid (but excited), but usually she's more than ready to charge in at him.

OH....AND DAR IS ALWAYS TRYING TO HUMP HER.
a LOT. :sad2:

It's obvious they both REALLY want to play....kissy-face, bowing, jubilant porpoise=dancing on hind feet....

BUT.... :? I have seen Dar go from PLAY-TO-FIGHT in half a second, :sad2: and this is why he was no longer allowed back at Puppy-Day-Play.. :(

SO. :| :cry:
No Matter how playful and happy they seem, serious growls and body slams into furniture usually erupt and I'm grabbing one dog off the other and yelling to 'knock it off'.

I'm fairly certain there's a RIGHT way to handle these two dogs (who don't SEEM to want to kill each other) in a way that's conducive to structured interactions.

(I don't CARE if they play or not. It's the tension, begging, pleading, barking, disruptive stuff when they WANT to play, that drives me crazy. I'd be content with two sleeping (or quiet) dogs that ever even sniff noses)

And is it NORMAL for pit bulls to "Stallion-Fight"?? When they do go running at each other, they remind me of boxing kangaroos.... :neener:

For those of you who DON'T know me well, I will let you know I'm not much of a dog trainer, I'm not very Big/Strong, and I really DON'T want to have to break up fighting dogs.
(guinea pigs, maybe. Pibbles, NO>)

Is there a question in this post somewhere? I'm not sure.
Definitely an invitation for direction and insight.

It wasn't such a big deal before, but now that Ms. Pigeon has been here a while, she is becoming pushier with wanting to play with him, wanting to play IN General, and has become far less complacent.

Thank you Ahead of Time, Kind Ladies (and Sirs) for your guidance and Your thoughts...... :neener:
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby madremissy » January 17th, 2011, 3:01 pm

You know I am no help but just wanted to say I was thinking about you. :)
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Postby ArtGypsy » January 17th, 2011, 3:07 pm

madremissy wrote:You know I am no help but just wanted to say I was thinking about you. :)


**********HUGS************
We can just sit here and talk until the experts come along.....(after they roll their eyes and mumble something about the 'wrong' kind of people owning pit bulls, lOL... :crazy2: :dance: :crazy2: :dance: :wink:
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby SisMorphine » January 17th, 2011, 3:18 pm

I will tell you that my two often play on their hind legs, hump the crap out of each other, and generally sound like they are trying to disembowel the other. At work I have had people come running, thinking there was a fight going on they are so damn loud. But it's just play.

BUT both of them have generally good obedience and if they get too rough (which they do) then I will tell them to leave it, and they will stop. I also know that they will both take correction from the other without getting defensive about it. Now, that is ONLY with each other. If another dog was to try to correct either one it would not end so well.

Now did that help you at all? Probably not. LOL!

Have you walked them together at all? I usually do slow introductions, which starts with just seeing each other through crates, and moves onto one being loose in the same room that the other is crated, then it moves onto walks together where they get used to being around each other and controlling themselves at the same time (this one takes two people LOL). And from there you just have to judge your own comfort level with what's going on. Unfortunately it's so hard to say exactly what's happening and what would work without seeing it happen. And some dogs just heighten too quickly to be able to play nicely with others :neutral:
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Postby ArtGypsy » January 17th, 2011, 3:30 pm

I have Collar' walked them away from a situation; like leaving the room and going to the crate...
and IF I HAVE FOOD/TREATS, They'll both stop whatever roughhousing (or screaming at each other) and come 'to me' and 'sit' and wait for the treats.

When I feed, each dog has to 'sit' wait and then 'Bed' . They'll do that too, side by side.

I want the experts to come and observe THEM.... :dance: watch the micro-fur-movements and tell me if this 'is play' or this is 'destroy'.

(deep sigh)....
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby amazincc » January 17th, 2011, 3:36 pm

Well... I can only tell you what happens at my house, regarding play time... :|
(I've been lucky enough, so far, to only have introduced "new" dogs in the spring/summer... and having two seperately fenced-in yards was my saving grace (no pun intented... lol).)


And is it NORMAL for pit bulls to "Stallion-Fight"?? When they do go running at each other, they remind me of boxing kangaroos....

YES. Mine play gladiator-style, for about 20 minutes... lots of body slamming, boxing, growling, the works. Looks kind of vicious and disconcerting to people who don't know them.
Then one or the other, or both, will get a wicked case of the zoomies and mindless running in circles will ensue.
After that - potty time.
Once all thet initial energy has been "let out"... tug, or fetch... or aimless wandering and sniffing.
I don't allow that kind of play in the house, for obvious reasons.
Mine will, on occasion, have a wrestling match inside, but it's very subdued and "civil"... no slamming into things/people/furniture.

When Luka was here I had a drag leash on him, in case I had to seperate anyone in a hurry... he was not used to being/playing inside, and he did wreak havoc in the beginning.

Can you let them each get rid of some of all that energy, seperately, outside first?
I know it's cold out, but... tiring them out individually first might make it easier for them to contain themselves inside afterwards?

I'm not a dog trainer either, so take anything I say or suggest w/a grain of salt. :wink:
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Postby madremissy » January 17th, 2011, 3:40 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:
madremissy wrote:You know I am no help but just wanted to say I was thinking about you. :)


**********HUGS************
We can just sit here and talk until the experts come along.....(after they roll their eyes and mumble something about the 'wrong' kind of people owning pit bulls, lOL... :crazy2: :dance: :crazy2: :dance: :wink:



8)
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Postby mnp13 » January 17th, 2011, 3:43 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:I want the experts to come and observe THEM.... :dance: watch the micro-fur-movements and tell me if this 'is play' or this is 'destroy'.

(deep sigh)....


I'm not an expert, nor do I play one on tv, :wink: but here is my opinion:

You could video tape it, and those of us looking at it will only see it as what it is - a snapshot in time. Though, yes, people not "attached" to the situation often see cues that the people in the situation don't.

Connor and Inara used to do nothing but the humpy game alternating with being boxing kangaroos. Princess Ruby Fun Police hands out the corrections in our house and we have yet to have a dog test that in our house and not end up bloody. At my parent's house, she has drawn blood on their Standard Poodle a few times sometimes starting it, sometimes just doing it on principle (bitch.)

And quite frankly, if you are wondering if it's play or not, then I would say to go with your gut. If there's a question there, why chance it?
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Postby ArtGypsy » January 17th, 2011, 4:44 pm

mnp13 wrote:
ArtGypsy wrote:I want the experts to come and observe THEM.... :dance: watch the micro-fur-movements and tell me if this 'is play' or this is 'destroy'.

(deep sigh)....


I'm not an expert, nor do I play one on tv, :wink: but here is my opinion:

You could video tape it, and those of us looking at it will only see it as what it is - a snapshot in time. Though, yes, people not "attached" to the situation often see cues that the people in the situation don't.

Connor and Inara used to do nothing but the humpy game alternating with being boxing kangaroos.
[b]Glad to hear others have this same phenomenon. pit bulls are a UNIQUE breed..... :nono:

[Princess Ruby Fun Police hands out the corrections in our house and we have yet to have a dog test that in our house and not end up bloody. At my parent's house, she has drawn blood on their Standard Poodle a few times sometimes starting it, sometimes just doing it on principle (bitch.)

And quite frankly, if you are wondering if it's play or not, then I would say to go with your gut. If there's a question there, why chance it?

I'm only chancing it because they act like they are DYING to be together; with the small house and the grand displays of barking, bowing, tugging at tethers and yodeling, I want the damn dogs to PLAY a bit so they can get it out of their system and let the rest of the house have a little PEACE.

:| :D
I CAN TELL you this; I will err on the side of FAR TOO LITTLE play than the alternative. I am scared to DEATH of a fight. :shock:
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 17th, 2011, 5:15 pm

I agree with Alyssa - you and somebody else need to take the 2 dogs for lots of on-leash walks, starting across the street from each other if you have to. Eventually, maybe immediately, you'll be able to walk them side by side and have them ignore each other. When I'm doing this to introduce a new dog to Inara, I walk her beside the dog, then in front of the dog so the dog can sniff her butt and then I walk her behind the dog so she can sniff its butt. That way there is NO face to face interaction but they still get some info about each other. After that, when they're bored and ignoring each other, me and the other person turn them loose to play and it's good times for everybody.

Just remember, baby steps, Grace. Baby steps.
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Postby ArtGypsy » January 17th, 2011, 10:12 pm

They've spent the last month with one of them out and one of them crated; living room/dining room area; pretty much ONE ROOM.
They've also spent quite a bit of time with Dar tethered to the bed while Pigeon walks around the house.
And for the last week, Pigeon sleeps at the foot of the bed or on the recliner next to the bed.
When it's time to go to potty in the morning, both dogs go with me to the Door,,,,only one gets to 'go' at a time.

We proceed 'together' to the kitchen, where the kibble is already prepared (soaked all night) and they hang out beside me, terribly interested in what the cats are getting.
I realize I am probably doing it 'backwards'; probably SHOULDN'T have them loose around food.
But with the food as their focus, instead of each other, I've been able to expose them to being around each other without wanting to play.

We've had a couple very-short play episodes today..... :dance: lots of darting and 'body slamming'...Dar wants to hump and she is not having it.

Now tonight, I played with each one separately, wore them out and then let them play in the living room.
IT'S PIGEON that keeps Dar in His Place....she goes 'after him' and he is always lightening fast, darting away from her; she trots away, and he, in his rapscallion kind of way, comes at her from behind, and ZIP, she's barreled after him again, and he zoomies off or darts behind the chairs.

Again, I ended it after only a minute or so ; praised and told each "BED" and gave them frozen kibble in their kongs.

Again, I do not aim to have buddy-dogs that are always out. I'm far too worried about a fight and not being able to break it up. I'll never forget the horror when Dar would not let go of Macy's throat; ripping the hide lose.

I always appreciate the time and effort you guys put into responses. :)
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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