Debate: BH test for Service Dogs?

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Postby TheRedQueen » January 6th, 2011, 9:20 pm

Thoughts?

http://epstorm.blogspot.com/2011/01/adv ... s-for.html

(I can't seem to copy/paste the article...sorry!)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby mnp13 » January 6th, 2011, 9:58 pm

Advocating for National Standards for Service Dogs in Public Schools

(Pic) -Schutzhund BH test pattern. This test used by Seizure Alert Dogs for Life, Inc. is the most disciplined test given to service dogs in the world.
Image
Fairfax, VA- A National standard is needed to stop the roadblocks made by public school districts across the United States. Most recently, this was witnessed by the nation in the Andrew Stevens matter.

The requirement demanded by Fairfax County Public Schools that Andrew Stevens be a certified handler by Assistance Dogs International has caused much controversy. Seizure Alert Dogs for Life cannot join ADI because we are a for-profit business. Assistance Dogs International is not a governing authority of any kind for service dog trainers or handlers. The certified handler certification does not exist...anywhere.

Video: Schutzhund BH Test




The Americans with Disabilities Act (1990) secures access for all service dogss being used by a person who has a disability so that those service dogs can help that person to expand their independence. The ADA is clear that the facilities must allow for the service dog to enter and have appropriate access to the environment but, that the facility ( often the school) is not responsible for the service dog.

This means the school cannot be asked or required to provide an aid, teacher or other staff member to oversee the service dog and child during the school day. If the child is capable of being fully responsible for the service dog in public. The Public Access Test demanded by Fairfax County Public Schools was created by the training organization—see www./ADIonline.org. Andrew Stevens and Alaya passed this test and should have been allowed full access in school. When a child is able to pass this test without the help of a parent or caregiver, the child has full access to malls, stores, and even school. Andrew has passed this test.

The Schutzhund BH test is the strictest test in the world and can be given by any German SV judge. The SV is like the AKC in the United States. Many Working Dog Association clubs in the USA can administer this test to any person.

Impartiality [Temperament] Test

Before admittance to the BH test, all dogs entered are to undergo a temperament test, in which the identity of the dog is confirmed through checking of the tattoo number and/or chip number. Dogs that are not identifiable are not entitled to start in a trial. Evaluating the dog's temperament also occurs during the entire trial. Dogs that do not pass the temperament test are prohibited from further participation in the trial. If, during the course of the trial, a dog shows defects of character, even if it passed the first temperament test, the judge may disqualify the dog from the trial and enter into the scorebook the note, 'Temperament Test/Behavior Test failed".

Evaluation

Dogs which do not achieve 70% of the required points in Part A will not be permitted to participate in the Traffic Portion of the test.
At the end of the trial no point score is given by the judge but rather only a rating of Passed or Failed. The trial is passed if 70% of the attainable points are earned in Part A and in Part B the judge considers the exercises as performed satisfactorily.
The BH title is not a training title in the sense of the breed, show and breed selection regulations of a member organization of the VDH. A BH test may be repeated at any time. The outcome of each trial is recorded in the scorebook irrespective of the outcome.

A) Begleithund Test on the training Field. Total Points:60

Each individual exercise begins and ends with the basic position. The dog sits directly next to its handler on the left side with its right shoulder at the handler's knee. Assuming the basic position is allowed only once at the beginning of each exercise. The handler is to stand in the basic position in a sportsmanlike manner. Standing straddle-legged is not permitted. The basic position at the end of an exercise can be the start position of the following exercise. Handler help is not permitted and if used, results in point deductions. Carrying something to motivate the dog, such as a toy, is not permitted. If a handler cannot perform an exercise correctly because of a physical disability, the judge must be informed of this prior to the beginning of the trial. If a handler's disability doesn't allow the dog to heel on the left side, the dog may heel in a comparable position on the handler's right side.
The judge gives the command to begin each exercise. Everything else, such as the turns, halts, changes of pace, etc., is carried out without direction from the judge. However, it is permitted for the handler to request these directions from the judge.
Praising the dog is permitted at the end of each exercise. Afterwards, the handler may take a new basic position. Between praising the dog and new start there should be a distinct pause (about 3 seconds). The dog must remain at heel between exercises.

1. On Lead Heeling (15 points). Command:" Heel" ("Fuss")


From the basic position at the command "Heel" ("Fuss"), the on-lead dog, wearing an animal rights approved collar or harness, follows the handler gladly. The lead may not be on the live ring of the collar.

At the beginning of the exercise, the dog and handler walk 40 to 50 paces straight ahead without stopping, perform an about turn and after 1 0 to 15 paces, show the fast and then slow paces of a minimum of about 1 0 paces. At a normal pace, they are then to execute a minimum of a right, a left and an about turn. The dog must stay with its shoulder at knee level on the left side of the handler. It must neither forge, lag or go sideways. The about turn is to be shown by the handler as a left about turn.

The command "Heel" ("Fuss") is permitted only when starting from the basic position and at the changes of pace. When the handler halts, the dog should sit quickly without help from the handler. The handler may not at this point change the basic position and especially may not move to the dog if it's sitting apart from the handler. During the heeling routine, the lead should be held in the left hand and must hang loose. At the direction of the judge, the handler and dog go through a group of a minimum of 4 people. The handler must halt at least once in the group. The group is to move randomly. Lagging, forging or deviating to the side by the dog while heeling, as well as pausing on the turns by the handler, is incorrect.

Group

The heeling through the moving group is to be shown both on and off lead. While heeling in the group, a minimum of once around a person to the left and once to the right (for example, in the form of a figure "8") is to be performed. Once during each pass through the group, the handler must halt near a person. The judge may require the handler to repeat the exercise. Praising the dog is permitted only in the final basic position after leaving the group.

About Turns (180)

Two types of about turns are permitted, but they both must performed as left about turns. When carrying out the about turn, the dog can either go around the handler or the about turn is performed with the handler as a left turn. (The dog stays on the left side of the handler.)

2. Off Lead Heeling (15 points). Command:" Heel" ("Fuss")

At the direction of the judge, the lead is removed while the dog is in the basic position. The handler hangs the lead over the shoulder or sticks it in his/her pocket. (In both cases, the lead goes on the side opposite from the dog, either over the left shoulder with the snap on the right side or in the right side pocket.) The team returns immediately through the group with the dog off lead, halting at least once in the group. After leaving the group, the handler briefly takes the basic position and then begins the off-lead heeling routine comparable to Exercise 1.

3. Sit Out of Motion Exercise (10 points). Command: "Sit" ("Sitz")


From the basic position and with the dog heeling off lead, the handler walks straight ahead. After a minimum of 10 paces and on the command "Sit" ("Sitz"), the dog must quickly sit, without the handler pausing or looking back. After an additional 30 paces, the handler stops and immediately turns towards the dog. At the direction of the judge, the handler returns to the dog and takes the basic position on the right side [of the dog]. If the dog stands or lies down instead of sits, there will be a deduction of 5 points.

"Sit"
Basic Position ---------------------------------- X -------------------------------------------------- Handler
10-15 paces normal minimum 30 paces normal

4. Down Out of Motion With Recall (10 points)


From the basic position the handler gives the command "Heel" ("Fuss") and walks straight ahead. After a minimum of 10 paces and on the command “Down” (“Platz”), the dog must quickly lie down. Without other influence on the dog and without turning around, the handler walks straight ahead another 30 paces, turns immediately towards the dog and stops. At the direction of the judge, the handler calls the dog. The dog should run to the handler quickly and happily and sit in front. At the command, "Heel" ("Fuss"), the dog sits next to the handler.

If the dog stands or sits, but the recall is perfect, 5 points will be deducted.

"Down"
Basic Position ---------------------------------- X -------------------------------------------------- Handler
10-15 paces normal minimum 30 paces normal

5. Down Under Distraction(10 points). Commands: "Down"("Platz"),"Sit"("Sitz")

At the beginning of the obedience performance of the other dog, the handler downs the dog from the basic position at a place designated by the judge without leaving the lead or any type of article with the dog. The handler goes 30 paces away and stands at this distance with his/her back to the dog. During the Down, the dog must remain lying calmly. At the direction of the judge, the handler goes to the right side of the dog and at another judge direction, brings the dog into the basic position with the command "Sit" ("Sitz"). If the dog sits, stands or is restless, only partial points will be awarded. If the dog moves more than its own body length from the down position, the exercise is failed.

Restless behavior on the part of the Handler, as well as other hidden help is incorrect.

Bitches are to be downed separately, if possible.

A dog which does not earn a minimum of 70% (42 points) in exercises 1 through 5 is dismissed from further participation in the trial.

B. Test in Traffic. General

The following exercises take place outside of the training field in a suitable environment. The judge along with the trial chairman determines where and how the exercises in the public traffic area (streets, avenues or squares) will be carried out. Public traffic may not be impeded.

Because of their character, implementation of these parts of the test requires a considerable amount of time spent on them. The performance requirements may not be impaired by the superficial testing of too many dogs.

No points are awarded for the individual exercises in Part B. In order to pass these parts of the test, the total impression of the dog as it moves through traffic/the public is relevant.

The exercises described in the following are suggestions and can be modified by the judge to fit the local conditions. If the judge is unsure in the rating of the dog, he is authorized to repeat the exercises or to alter them.

Order of Procedures

1. Encounter With a Group of People


At the direction of the judge and with the dog on lead, the handler walks along an assigned section of a street on the sidewalk. The judge follows the team at an appropriate distance.

The dog should follow willingly on the handler's left side on a loose lead with its shoulder at the handler's knee.

The dog must be indifferent to the pedestrian and motor traffic.

On the way, a jogger (someone assigned to do this, not a stranger) crosses the handler's path. The dog should appear neutral and indifferent.

The handler and dog walk further and enter a loose group of a minimum of 6 people, in which one person speaks to the handler and greets himlher with a handshake. At the handler's command, the dog must sit or lie next to the handler and behave calmly during the brief conversation.

2. Encounter With a Bike Rider



With the dog on lead, the handler walks along a street and is next overtaken from behind by a bike rider who rings a bell while passing. At some distance away, the bike rider turns around and comes towards the dog and handler. Beside the team, the bike rider rings the bell again. The traffic pattern should be set up in such a way that the dog is between the handler and the passing bike rider.

The dog should be indifferent to the bike and rider.

3. Encounter With Automobiles

With the dog heeling on lead, the handler and dog walk past several cars. One of the cars starts up and as they pass one of the other cars, a door is slammed. As the handler and dog walk on further, a car stops next to them. The driver rolls down the car window and asks the handler for information. At the same time the handler commands the dog to sit or lie down. The dog must appear calm and unaffected by the cars and all traffic noises.

4. Encounters With Joggers or Inline Skaters

With the dog on lead, the handler and dog walk along a quiet road. A minimum of two joggers overtakes them, without decreasing speed. Once one jogger passes, another jogger comes towards the handler and dog and runs past them without slowing down. The dog does not have to stay in heel position but may not bother either the jogger overtaking [them from behind] or the one coming towards them. During the encounters with the joggers, the handler is permitted to put the dog in a sit or down position.

Instead of the joggers, one or two inline skaters can overtake the handler and dog [from behind] and again coming towards them.

5. Encounter With Other Dog

When being overtake by or meeting another dog with its handler, the dog has to behave in a neutral manner. The handler may repeat the command "Heel" ("FuB") or put the dog in the sit or down position during the encounters.

6. Behavior of the Dog when Tied Out Briefly and Left Alone; Behavior With Regard to Animals

At the direction of the judge and with the dog on lead, the handler walks along the sidewalk of a moderately busy street. After a short distance and at the judge's instruction, the handler stops and attaches the lead to a fence, tie-out or similar. The handler goes out of sight into a business or entrance to a house.

The dog may stand, sit or lie down.

During the absence of the handler a passerby (someone assigned to do this) walks by with a dog on lead to the side of the dog being tested, at a distance of about 5 paces.
The dog that has been left alone must remain quiet during the absence of the handler. It must allow the dog being walked by to pass without acting aggressively (without pulling strongly on the lead or persistent barking). At the judge's direction, the dog is picked up.
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Postby mnp13 » January 6th, 2011, 9:58 pm

I think it's an excellent idea. A good baseline that is well established world wide.
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 6th, 2011, 11:03 pm

Even though ADI (Assistance Dogs International) has a Public Access Test that's set up EXACTLY for Service Dog Handlers? I personally use their test when testing my Service Dogs in Training.

WARNING

This test is here as information only. This test was designed to be administered by professional Assistance Dog Trainers.

Administering this test by non members of Assistance Dogs International is not authorized by Assistance Dogs International nor would completion of this test be considered certification by Assistance Dogs International.

Assistance Dogs International accepts no liability for use of this test.

Copyright Assistance Dogs International, Inc. 1997
________________________________________________________________
9/95

ASSISTANCE DOG PUBLIC ACCESS CERTIFICATION TEST
NAME OF DOG AND RECIPIENT: ________________________________

NAME OF TESTER: _____________________________________________

DATE OF TEST: _____________ DATE OF PLACEMENT: _____________

TESTED ON (PLEASE CIRCLE ONE): PLACEMENT FOLLOW-UP

PURPOSE: The purpose of this Public Access Test is to ensure that dogs who have public access are stable, well-behaved, and unobtrusive to the public. It is to ensure that the client has control over the dog and the team is not a public hazard. This test is NOT intended as a substitute for the skill/task test that should be given by the program. It is to be used in addition to those skill/task tests. It is expected that the test will be adhered to as closely as possible. If modifications are necessary, they should be noted in the space provided at the end of the test.
DISMISSAL: Any dog that displays any aggressive behavior (growling, biting, raising hackles, showing teeth, etc.) will be eliminated from the test. Any dog that eliminates in a building or shows uncontrollable behavior will be eliminated from the test.
BOTTOM LINE: The bottom line of this test is that the dog demonstrates that he/she is safe to be in public and that the person demonstrates that he/she has control of the dog at all times.
TESTING EQUIPMENT: All testing shall be done with equipment appropriate to the needs and abilities of the team. All dogs shall be on-lead at all times except in the vehicle at which time it is optional.
This test is to take place in a public setting such as a mall where there are a lot of people and natural distractions. The individual will handle the dog and can use any reasonable/humane equipment necessary to ensure his/her control over the dog.
The evaluator will explain the test thoroughly before the actual testing, during which he/she will follow discreetly to observe when not directly interacting with the individual on a test related matter. The only things an evaluator needs are a clip board, an assistant, another dog, a plate with food, and access to a shopping cart.
COMMANDS: Commands may be given to the dog In either hand signals or verbal signals or both.
1.CONTROLLED UNLOAD OUT OF VEHICLE: After a suitable place has been found, the individual will unload the dog and any necessary equipment (wheelchair, walker, crutches, etc.) out of the vehicle. The dog must wait until released before coming out of the vehicle. Once outside, it must wait quietly unless otherwise instructed by the Individual. The dog may not run around, be off lead, or ignore commands given by the individual. Once the team is out of the vehicle and settled, the assistant should walk past with another dog. they should walk within six (6) feet of the team. The Assistance Dog must remain calm and under control, not pulling or trying to get to the other dog.
The emphasis on this is that the Assistance Dog remain unobtrusive and is unloaded in the safest manner possible for everyone.
2.APPROACHING THE BUILDING: After unloading, the team must maneuver through the parking lot to approach the building. The dog must stay in a relative heel position and may not forge ahead or lag behind. The dog must not display a fear of cars or traffic noises and must display a relaxed attitude. When the individual stops for any reason, the dog must stop also.
3.CONTROLLED ENTRY THROUGH A DOORWAY: Once at the doors of the building, the individual may enter however he/she chooses to negotiate the entry safely. Upon entering the building; however, the dog may not wander off or solicit attention from the public. The dog should wait quietly until the team is fully inside then should calmly walk beside the individual. The dog must not pull or strain against the lead or try to push its way past the individual but must wait patiently while entry is completed.
4.HEELING THROUGH THE BUILDING: Once inside the building, the individual and the dog must walk through the area in a controlled manner. The dog should always be within touching distance where applicable or no greater than a foot away from the individual. The dog should not solicit public attention or strain against the lead (except in cases where the dog may be pulling the individual's wheelchair). The dog must readily adjust to speed changes, turn corners promptly, and travel through a crowded area without interacting with the public. In tight quarters, the dog must be able to get out of the way of obstacles and not destroy merchandise by knocking it over or by playing with it.
5.SIX FOOT RECALL ON LEAD: A large, open area should be found for the six foot recall. Once found, the individual will perform a six foot recall with the dog remaining on lead. The individual will sit the dog, leave it, travel six feet, then turn and call the dog to him/her. The dog should respond promptly and not stop to solicit attention from the public or ignore the command. The dog should come close enough to the individual to be readily touched. For Guide Dogs, they must actually touch the person to indicate location. The recall should be smooth and deliberate without the dog trudging to the individual or taking any detours along the way.
6.SITS ON COMMAND: The team will be asked to demonstrate the Individual's ability to have the dog sit three different times. The dog must respond promptly each time with no more than two commands. There should not be any extraordinary gestures on the part of the people approaching the dog. Normal, reasonable behavior on the part of the people is expected.
The first sit will be next to a plate of food placed upon the ground. The dog must not attempt to eat or sniff the food. The individual may correct the dog verbally or physically away from the food, but then the dog must maintain a sit while ignoring the food. The dog should not be taunted or teased with the food. This situation should be made as realistic as possible.
The second sit will be executed, and the assistant with a shopping cart will approach within three feet of the dog and continue on past. The dog should maintain the sit and not show any fear of the shopping cart. If the dog starts to move, the individual may correct the dog to maintain the sit.
The last sit will be a sit with a stay as a person walks up behind the team, talks to the person and then pets the dog. The dog must hold position. The dog may not break the stay to solicit attention. The individual may repeat the stay command along with reasonable physical corrections.
7.DOWNS ON COMMAND: The down exercises will be performed in the same sequence as the sits with the same basic stipulations. The first down will be at a table where food will be dropped on the floor. The dog should not break the down to go for the food or sniff at the food. The individual may give verbal and physical corrections to maintain the down. There should not be any extraordinary gestures on the part of the people approaching the dog. Normal, reasonable behavior from the people is expected.
The second down will be executed, and then an adult and child should approach the dog. The dog should maintain the down and not solicit attention. If the child pets the dog, the dog must behave appropriately and not break the stay. The individual may give verbal and physical corrections if the dog begins to break the stay.
8.NOISE DISTRACTION: The team will be heeling along and the tester will drop a clipboard to the ground behind the team. The dog may acknowledge the noise, but may not in any way show aggression or fear. A normal startle reaction Is fine--the dog may jump and or turn--but the dog should quickly recover and continue along on the heel. The dog should not become aggressive, begin shaking, etc.
9.RESTAURANT: The team and tester should enter a restaurant and be seated at a table. The dog should go under the table or, if size prevents that, stay close by the individual. The dog must sit or lie down and may move a bit for comfort during the meal, but should not be up and down a lot or need a lot of correction or reminding. This would be a logical place to do the food drop during a down. (See #7)
10.OFF LEAD: Sometime during the test, where appropriate, the person will be instructed to drop the leash while moving so it is apparent to the dog. The individual must show the ability to maintain control of the dog and get the leash back in its appropriate position. this exercise will vary greatly depending on the person's disabilities. The main concern is that the dog be aware that the leash is dropped and that the person Is able to maintain control of the dog and get the leash back into proper position.
11.CONTROLLED UNIT: The team will leave the building in a similar manner to entering, with safety and control being of prime importance. The team will proceed across the parking lot and back to the vehicle. The dog must be in appropriate heel position and not display any fear of vehicle or traffic sounds.
12.CONTROLLED LOAD into VEHICLE: The individual will load the dog into the vehicle, with either entering first. The dog must not wander around the parking lot but must wait patiently for instructions. Emphasis is on safety and control.
Scoring Factors of the Public Access Certification Test

A= Always
M= Most of the time (more than half of time)
S= Some of the time (half or less of the time)
N= Never

1.CONTROLLED UNLOAD OUT OF VEHICLE Dog did not try to leave vehicle until given release command.
__YES* __NO The dog waited in the vehicle until released.*
___YES ___NO The dog waited outside the vehicle under control.
___YES ___NO The dog remained under control while another dog was walked past.
2.APPROACHING THE BUILDING Relative heel position, not straining or forging.
__A __M __S __N The dog stayed in relative heel position.
___YES* __NO The dog was calm around traffic.*
__A __M __S __N The dog stopped when the individual came to a halt.
3.CONTROLLED ENTRY THROUGH A DOORWAY
___YES* __NO The dog waited quietly at the door until commanded to enter.*
___YES* __NO The dog waited on the inside until able to return to heel position.*
4.HEELING THROUGH THE BUILDING
__A __M __S __N The dog was within the prescribed distance of the individual.
__A __M __S __N The dog ignored the public, remaining focused on the individual.
__A __M __S __N The dog readily adjusted to speed changes.
__A __M __S __N The dog readily turned corners--did not have to be tugged or jerked to change direction.
__A __M __S __N The dog readily maneuvered through tight quarters.
5.SIX FOOT RECALL ON LEAD
___YES* __NO The dog responded readily to the recall command--did not stray away, seek attention from others, or trudge slowly.*
___YES* __NO The dog remained under control and focused on the individual.*
___YES* __NO The dog came within the prescribed distance of the individual.*
___YES* __NO The dog came directly to the individual.*
6.SITS ON COMMAND
__A __M __S __N The dog responded promptly to the command to sit.
___YES* __NO The dog remained under control around food--not trying to get food and not needing repeated corrections.*
___YES* __NO The dog remained composed while the shopping cart passed--did not shy away, show signs of fear, etc. shopping cart should be pushed normally and reasonable, not dramatically.*
___YES* __NO The dog maintained a sit-stay while being petted by a stranger.*
7.DOWNS ON COMMAND
__A __M __S __N The dog responded promptly to the command to down.
___YES* __NO The dog remained under control around the food--not trying to get food and not needing repeated corrections.*
___YES ___NO The dog remained in control while the child approached--child should not taunt dog or be overly dramatic.
8.NOISE DISTRACTIONS If the dog jumps, turns, or shows a quick startle type reaction, that is fine. The dog should not show fear, aggression, or continue to be affected by the noise.
___YES* __NO The dog remained composed during the noise distraction.*
9.RESTAURANT
___YES* __NO The dog is unobtrusive and out of the way of patrons and employees as much as possible.*
___YES* __NO The dog maintained proper behavior, ignoring food and being quiet.*
10.OFF LEAD
___YES* __NO When told to drop the leash, the team maintained control and the individual got the leash back in position.*
11.DOG TAKEN BY ANOTHER PERSON To show that the dog can be handled by another person without aggression or excessive stress or whining, someone else will take the dog's leash and passively hold the dog (not giving any commands) while the dog's partner moves 20' away.
___YES ___NO Another person can take the dog's leash and the dog's partner can move away without aggression or undue stress on the part of the dog.
12.CONTROLLED EXIT
__A __M __S __N The dog stayed in relative heel position.
___YES* __NO The dog was calm around traffic.*
__A __M __S __N The dog stopped when the individual came to a halt.
13.CONTROLLED LOAD INTO VEHICLE
___YES ___NO The dog waited until commanded to enter the vehicle.
___YES ___NO The dog readily entered the vehicle upon command.
14.TEAM RELATIONSHIP
__A __M __S __N When the dog did well, the person praised the dog.
__A __M __S __N The dog is relaxed, confident, and friendly.
__A __M __S __N The person kept the dog under control.
Scoring:

The team must score all 'Always' or' Most of the time' responses on the A-M-S-N parts of the test.

The team must score at least 80% "yes" answers on the "yes" "no" portion of the test

All questions marked by an asterisk must be answered by a "YES" response.

Were there any unique situations that made any portion of this test not applicable?
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 7th, 2011, 7:44 am

I think there needs to be some standardized test that you can show your dog passed, regardless of who trained them. I like the ADI test over the BH because it seems more applicable to service dogs (go figure!), with the restaurant, vehicle, buildings, etc.
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Postby furever_pit » January 8th, 2011, 7:23 pm

The ADI test does seem more applicable to service dogs. Is this a world recognized test?

The BH is recognized internationally, and now is even recognized between the different dog sports. Passing the BH is accepted as passage of the temperament test for both French and Mondio Ring. There is more that goes along with this but there is a lot of fluidity coming about between the sports.

What is wrong with using the BH as a temperament indicator for service dogs?
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 8th, 2011, 7:30 pm

furever_pit wrote:The ADI test does seem more applicable to service dogs. Is this a world recognized test?

The BH is recognized internationally, and now is even recognized between the different dog sports. Passing the BH is accepted as passage of the temperament test for both French and Mondio Ring. There is more that goes along with this but there is a lot of fluidity coming about between the sports.

What is wrong with using the BH as a temperament indicator for service dogs?


ADI is Assistance Dogs International, the kind of gold standard for the Assistance Dog industry...with groups in North America, as well as internationally...leading the way recently for AD groups in countries that didn't have such things...like Japan. So yeah, anyone in the industry KNOWS of the ADI Public Access Test.

I find it interesting that the person that is suggesting that BH be the main test for ADs is a schutzhund trainer... :wink: I don't personally think that the BH is a bad test, just not as good as the ADI PAT. :| The Access Test is given in public settings...such as a mall, restaurant, etc...not just a big open field with set-ups. It's designed specifically for Assistance Dogs...testing real-life issues that the BH doesn't address. Why use the BH instead of the ADI one? The only reason I can see is that you're a GSD breeder and schutzhund trainer. lol

The other main group in the AD industry is IAADP (International Association of Assistance Dog Partners) uses the ADI Public Access Test and refers to it on their website. It's pretty much the standard as far as I've seen.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby mnp13 » January 8th, 2011, 8:32 pm

Well, the question was if the BH was a good test. You didn't say anything about the ADI in your first post! lol

I think the advantage of the BH is the fact that it's so well known. However, the ADI is more applicable.

Regardless, I think there should be some standard.
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 8th, 2011, 9:08 pm

I was just amused by the fact that the guy suggesting it is a schutzhund trainer...and was wondering what people thought of this part in particular:
This test used by Seizure Alert Dogs for Life, Inc. is the most disciplined test given to service dogs in the world.


I figured people would question the BH test being the "most disciplined test"? I mean, sure it's a good test...but "the most disciplined?" :|

It's interesting because I didn't really know of the BH until I started hanging around here with people that do bitework. When you hang out with obedience people, an OTCH is the best there is, and so on. I didn't know of the ADI Public Access Test until I started hanging out with SD people. lol
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 8th, 2011, 9:09 pm

And yeah, I meant to add the ADI stuff when I first posted, but after getting annoyed at the original link not copy/pasting...I forgot! lol
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Postby mnp13 » January 8th, 2011, 9:43 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:I figured people would question the BH test being the "most disciplined test"? I mean, sure it's a good test...but "the most disciplined?" :|

I absolutely disagree with it being "the most disciplined" test. Not by a LONG shot. No WAY. It's a pattern. If I did that pattern 10 times a day every day with Ruby after a few weeks she could walk it on her own. I have no doubt about it. I'm not saying it's easy, but when you do the same thing all the time it get's easier.

It's interesting because I didn't really know of the BH until I started hanging around here with people that do bitework. When you hang out with obedience people, an OTCH is the best there is, and so on.

Exactly.
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 14th, 2011, 5:06 pm

Oh my gawd, this trainer is an A$$HOLE. I asked via a FB forum about the dog reportedly being in heat, and whether she'd been going to school with the boy. After several days of being ignored, I got this from the trainer...I want to punch him in the face...with a sledghammer.

This was my original query:
So what's going on with this...I heard that Alaya is in HEAT and won't be going to school yet?


Trainer:
Alaya is bred from world Sieger champions from Germany.The statements made by other service dog organizations that leaving Alaya intact was unethical for me to do. They are wrong. There was no way of knowing if Alaya was going to work for Andrew. We chose to leave her intact until we knew that she was going to work for him. We had 2 other shepherds in training as a back up dog in case Andrew and Alaya didn't work as a team.


Also, No other training organization uses Schutzhund BH training or purebred west german shepherds from world champion lines. They can't afford the dogs that we use. Many get there dogs from the SPCA or rescue groups. We don't. We have pro...ven over and over again that we have quality dogs, trainers and life long personal service. Our seizure dogs have proven that they don't fail. They work all day and night. Alaya is one of the best seizure dogs that I have ever saw. Now she is the center of a national debate about her menstrual cycle...OMG!


My response:
@Jon...Wow...you could have just explained what was going on without bashing rescue dogs and other organizations. I myself train rescued dogs as SDs for people, including my BF who has a fantastic rescued Ausse: Sawyer, that could go toe-to-toe with any SD.


Trainer again:
I do not think any dog can go toe to toe with a Schutzhund trained Seizure dog that we train. The comments that were made by these other training organizations were uncalled for. They don't train seizure dogs...period. Can your dog...climb ladders, perform water rescue, call 911 via a cell phone, swipe a VNS magnet, tracking, platz at 50 yards on a hand signal, etc. I don't think so. No person should have said that Alaya is a "disaster waiting to happen."


My response:
But I'm *NOT* with one of those organizations that said this about you or your dogs. So why bash the type of dogs that I raise/train. I merely asked what was going on with Alaya and her heat cycle...there was absolutely no reason for you to go on and on about how great your dogs are...and how others can't measure up. And who are you to assume that my dog CANNOT do these things? Your attitude is appalling, to be honest
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Postby DemoDick » January 14th, 2011, 5:12 pm

This guy sounds like an incredibly insecure douchebag.

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Postby SisMorphine » January 14th, 2011, 5:47 pm

Douchebag.
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Postby amazincc » January 14th, 2011, 5:57 pm

No other training organization uses Schutzhund BH training or purebred west german shepherds from world champion lines.


Jawohl, mein Fuehrer... *sticks out arm to salute this wanna-be Nazi* :rolleyes2: lol
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 14th, 2011, 5:59 pm

amazincc wrote:
No other training organization uses Schutzhund BH training or purebred west german shepherds from world champion lines.


Jawohl, mein Fuehrer... *sticks out arm to salute this wanna-be Nazi* :rolleyes2: lol


:spit:
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby mnp13 » January 14th, 2011, 7:31 pm

Erin Erin Erin... :nono:

ONLY Schutzhund trained dogs can swipe credit cards and dial the phone. That's PART of the BH. DUH.

:rolleyes2:

Let's have a Service Dog Olympics! lmao
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Postby Hoyden » January 14th, 2011, 9:35 pm

amazincc wrote:
No other training organization uses Schutzhund BH training or purebred west german shepherds from world champion lines.


Jawohl, mein Fuehrer... *sticks out arm to salute this wanna-be Nazi* :rolleyes2: lol


:ROFL2: :ROFL2: :ROFL2:


mnp13 wrote:Erin Erin Erin... :nono:

ONLY Schutzhund trained dogs can swipe credit cards and dial the phone. That's PART of the BH. DUH.

:rolleyes2:

Let's have a Service Dog Olympics! lmao


Birdie can pick up credit cards & shopping cards off the linoleum & concrete floors. She knows how to buy fabric too. Does that count? :ROFL2:
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Postby cheekymunkee » January 15th, 2011, 1:58 am

TLDR;


SisMorphine wrote:Douchebag.



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