What would your dog do if it was loose?

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Postby dlynne1123 » December 27th, 2010, 6:05 pm

With my gang I have two answers. I think if each were loose, but alone, they would be fearful but eventually approach a stranger if hungry enough. Ryder would remain a 'feral' dog and hide, as her fear unfortunately outweighs her survival instinct. I have lost her before and after a half day of hunting with my other two dogs, the neighbors horses were spooked and helped us search in the right direction. When we found her she was tied up like a piglet in the woods with her long line still attached. Growling and yipping like a wild fox afraif of strangers. Only when I was close enough for her to realize it was me did she stop growling and wiggle. I pray I never lose her like that again and will remain never off leash unless in a fenced area with no strangers. I can't afford to put her in a situation she can't handle.
However, if loose as a pack I'm afraid Ryders fear of strangers would engage b/c she has confidence in numbers. We've noticed this in certain circumstances in the yard. She will bark and charge and at last minute dart away.
Our boxer is especially leary of strangers and puts on a display. If the other two are with her they sense a threat and get charged up. I think if they felt threatened as a pack they might nip and run, but not attack.

As for creatures, I have no doubt they would work like a pack or hunt alone. All but Panser, who doesn't really get prey drive, but more play drive. We've had incidents with skunks, PPQs and our barn cat where the others stalk and chase and she runs around barking hysterically, like she doesn't know whats going on. However she may take a hand off when playing tug of war b/c she doesn't want the game to end.
Ryder has too much hunting instinct to let anything smaller than a cat get away, shes caught more squirrels than our last cat. The boxer will if shes hungry and will chase but shes never actually caught anything.

Then again, my gang isn't from breeders stock, they are throw away rescues from BYBs that ended up in facilities as litters with mom. They all have fear issues and aren't stable dogs by any means, let alone bullies. It is my commitment to not let them have any opportunity like that. It's not that they were bred to be unstable but they weren't socialized well as young, and in some circumstances I think have some fear inbred into them. Panser acts just like her neurotic mother did. I see similarites. Its not somethign I would have bred for if I were a breeder. But I love them none the less! And crate and rotate when company comes over, crate and rotate with family activites, keep Ryder away from children and when we are calm and home alone, we get our snuggle time. In all this, they still get to go camping, hiking and to events without any displays of aggression or lashing out. I hope this helps if ever the worst were to ever happen, that they may be more conditioned to understand what is going on and how to deal.
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 27th, 2010, 6:10 pm

And for coming across another dog, if loose, I'm sure they would likely attack as they all have some inclination to DA, especially in a pack and loose.
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Postby plebayo » December 27th, 2010, 6:24 pm

TinaMartin wrote:Both of mine are crated and there are 2 closed doors front and back that they would have to get through. Sorsha would run around trying to kiss everyone wagging her tail constantly. Gator would not be a pretty sight for people or other animals.


So are you saying that Gator would attack a person if he was loose? What is it like having that kind of liability, especially since you're also representing bully breeds in general if he were to get out and bite someone? Why do you think he would run up and bite someone?
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Postby TinaMartin » December 27th, 2010, 10:02 pm

plebayo wrote:
TinaMartin wrote:Both of mine are crated and there are 2 closed doors front and back that they would have to get through. Sorsha would run around trying to kiss everyone wagging her tail constantly. Gator would not be a pretty sight for people or other animals.


So are you saying that Gator would attack a person if he was loose? What is it like having that kind of liability, especially since you're also representing bully breeds in general if he were to get out and bite someone? Why do you think he would run up and bite someone?

I think he would definitly challange someone if loose. That is why when I am not home he is crated and behind 2 closed doors. He is only ever loose in the house if I or Charles is there. He is never outside off a prong collar. If I am walking him any child can approach him and he is fine. If I am walking him he is ok with women and if Charles is walking him he is ok with men. If both of us are out there neither is ok. I put it under managment. Everyone who lives near me knows what is ok and what is not. If there is someone strange walking down the sidewalk I pull off to the side and stand in the snowbank if necessary. Gator is ok with people he knows like family and friends so that isn't a problem. We just remember to stay calm around him because he gets very excited about everything and a 100 lb dog slamming around in a house isn't fun. He tries to be good but just isn't right in the head. Dispite his issues my neigbors all adore my 4 legged idiot and realize he is not the norm. I don't take him anywhere that he would short circut. Sorsha goes everywhere because I don't have to worry about her.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » December 27th, 2010, 10:20 pm

And Gator's an American Bulldog, right? Aren't they bred for guardianship?
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Postby TinaMartin » December 27th, 2010, 10:38 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:And Gator's an American Bulldog, right? Aren't they bred for guardianship?

Yes to both Liz. He however takes the concept far beyond what a dog should. When the college kids change and cars arnt parked where the should be or they are different he will try to charge the cars because they are near me.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » December 27th, 2010, 10:41 pm

Oh I know he's a bit over the top ( :wink: ) but I didn't think it was fair to compare him to what an APBT temperament is. Bred for totally different things. :)
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Postby TinaMartin » December 27th, 2010, 10:51 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Oh I know he's a bit over the top ( :wink: ) but I didn't think it was fair to compare him to what an APBT temperament is. Bred for totally different things. :)

Very true Liz. Sorry I forget that everyone isn't aware of it. :oops: My brain went on autopilot with dogs in general.
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Postby PetieMarie22 » December 28th, 2010, 11:42 am

Petie would go try to play with the nearest dog she could find. That could be good, could be very bad - depending on what dog she tried to play with!
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Postby furever_pit » December 29th, 2010, 11:21 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:And Gator's an American Bulldog, right? Aren't they bred for guardianship?


This is actually a controversial point within the breed.
Historically, the AB has been primarily a hunting dog and combat dog (used for bull and bear baiting and some have been rolled in the pit). It was not long ago that it was the standard ABs who were working in the woods that were considered the cream of the crop. The tendency toward sport and protection work is rather recent. There is a group of AB enthusiasts who believe that protection work is distorting the breed and is not an accurate breed test.

As a side note, the APBT and the AB are not as distinct from one another as you may think. :wink:
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Postby Malli » December 30th, 2010, 4:26 am

But, have I not read that they were used as Plantation guardians?
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Postby TinaMartin » December 30th, 2010, 10:28 am

Malli wrote:But, have I not read that they were used as Plantation guardians?

I have read in more than one book that they were used to control slaves on the Plantation.
furever_pit wrote:
pitbullmamaliz wrote:And Gator's an American Bulldog, right? Aren't they bred for guardianship?


This is actually a controversial point within the breed.
Historically, the AB has been primarily a hunting dog and combat dog (used for bull and bear baiting and some have been rolled in the pit). It was not long ago that it was the standard ABs who were working in the woods that were considered the cream of the crop. The tendency toward sport and protection work is rather recent. There is a group of AB enthusiasts who believe that protection work is distorting the breed and is not an accurate breed test.

As a side note, the APBT and the AB are not as distinct from one another as you may think. :wink:

Regardless of what they were used for in the past it is part of their present history and as such can be a large part of what many of them are bred for today. Gator is from stock out of Legions Kennels. They bred for multi purpose dogs that excelled at Personal Protection.
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Postby furever_pit » December 30th, 2010, 9:02 pm

I would be interested in knowing what books you read that in. It's not a story that I have encountered anywhere - book or the men involved in creating and standardizing the breed.
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Postby mnp13 » December 31st, 2010, 4:42 pm

plebayo wrote:So are you saying that Gator would attack a person if he was loose? What is it like having that kind of liability, especially since you're also representing bully breeds in general if he were to get out and bite someone? Why do you think he would run up and bite someone?


Well, I'm not Tina, but I also replied that my dog would likely bite.

What is it like? I don't know how to answer that. :|

What would it be like for anyone? You deal with it. Either that or kill the dog, and I'm not going to do that any time soon. I don't dwell on the "he would represent every Pit Bull out there if..." because I can't do anything about that, the "of one dog does it the entire breed is blamed" is not my dog's fault. I know it's true, but I am not going to hold my dog or myself responsible for that ridiculous notion.

Did I used to? Yup. Then I got a dose of reality.
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Postby Rolex+Deebo » January 1st, 2011, 11:48 pm

Well,
Ziva = She has gotten loose because a roommate didn't latch the gate. I noticed when I heard her barking. There was a guy trying to pet her, and she was a bit afraid. She would crawl to him and when he reached to pet her she would jump back and bark. As soon as I came out the door, she went right up to him and got lovin. She is just a chicken when alone. lol
Deebo = He got out when bf left the door open to carry things in, and I was unaware of it and let him loose in the house. I didn't even notice him gone till bf came in and said"I think I just saw Deebo round the corner down the block." LOL after my heart attach I jumped in the car, and sure enough he was around the corner walking nicely on the side walk, pissing every 2ft or so. :| But I have had strangers come in to the yard when he was out, if it is a large man, he barks and runs to hide. If they look friendly, he barks and slowly makes his way to a but scratch.
Rolex = He is a bad one. He has always been very dominant, and always testing what he can get away with. With this dog you can never relax and think he will not try to take advantage of it some how. He has gotten loose a long time ago, and met a little ankle biter, who he grabbed by the back of the neck, squished to the ground, peed on him, and then walked away. :doh: The owner luckily thought it was the funniest thing ever. I thought he was going to eat the little shit. If he got loose tomorrow:
If he met a dog that wasn't a submissive female or a pup, there would be lots of blood. If he met a person that was not fearful, that was friendly he would be fine and go beg for attention. If he met a person who was fearful, god forbid running away, he would chase and bite.
He is very bad with any one who is fearful or even uncomfortable with him. He has cornered a friend and wouldn't let him move. He has actually bit a friend who walked in to the back yard, and jumped back when he saw Rolex. Rolex was calm and fine about the new person, didn't pay much attention, till the friend jumped back, doing the whole staring at the dog thing at the same time. Before anyone could react Rolex leaped over to the friend with a loud growl/bark, and when the friend put his hand up Rolex grabbed it. He only got the sleeve, and scratched him a little. And then he just sat there and stared at the person. If he moved, Rolex would no doubt have bit again. If he started running, it would have been ugly. He was so fixated on him we had to carry him in to the house. Now, he is like this around me with only males that are fearful. He had been living with my mom for the past 2 years, and with her, he will lunge at anyone she gets nervous about. She knows how he is, and gets nervous when a person approaches, and he takes it as her being nervous about the person. So I have been working with the two of them. This is the same dog that the Vet and groomer love because "you can do anything to him" and "he lessens so well". So it all depends on the person and the situation.
Having this kind of dog is a lot of responsibility. A lot of precautions. A lot of keeping him away from places where trouble might find him or the other way around. lol He is good with me, as long as I know whats going on, im in control, he knows that so he does not start much. Not so much with my mom. My mom has taken a map of her neighborhood, and put dots in every place where there is a dog living there, or children playing outside often. Next to each dot she listed what kind of dog, how it is contained and so on. So she can have nice calm walks. And even then, he has a leather collar on, an harness so you can drag him away without him slipping out of a collar, and a prong to keep your arm attached to your body if he sees a dog you missed.
If you get past all the :shock: :o :puke: moments, hes a sweetheart.
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Postby TinaMartin » January 3rd, 2011, 1:39 pm

furever_pit wrote:I would be interested in knowing what books you read that in. It's not a story that I have encountered anywhere - book or the men involved in creating and standardizing the breed.

This is just 2 seconds of google. It obviously just scratches the surface.

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/ameri ... story.html
"De patroller wus mi'ty hard on de run a way slaves. Dey wud run my pappy wid dem dogs like dey run rabbits an' some time dey wud ketch my pappy; some times pappy wud out run dem but he dasent go home, cause dey wud come dar to hunt him. She made me stay in de house an' I slept right on de floor in de corner uf her room an' she had a big bull dog dat stayed in dar wid us an' no body better not come bout us to hurt us." From the WPA Slave Narratives: Lewis Jefferson Here, the mention of dogs running down slaves makes no mention of the type of dog used. But he does specify that a bulldog slept in the room with them for protection; thus "no body better not come bout us to hurt us." The bulldog was used for protection and not the running down of slaves in this reference.
"Marse Cleveland had a very bad male hog, (domesticated), and had to keep him in a pen about 10 feet high. Sometimes he would break out of the pen and it would take all the bulldogs in the county to get him back." "My daddy used to hunt rabbits and possums. I went with him and would ride on his back with my feet in his pockets. He had a bulldog named Brutus which was a watch dog. My daddy would lay his hat down anywhere in the woods and Brutus would stay by the hat until he would come back." Ex-Slave Stories - Interview with George Henderson: Here we can see a firsthand account that the bulldog was being used as a stock-dog for domestic animals and a watchdog and not used for the hunt, as "Brutus would stay by the hat until he would come back."
"One former slave asserted that a man from his plantation lived fifteen years in hiding. Such a person might arm himself with a scythe and bulldog for protection." Slavery Remembered Paul D. Escott Why not a hound for protection? Because the bulldog was a guard dog and the hound a hunter
These three statements are readily available on the WEBPS site. There are also interview accounts in print from Johnson himself talking about conversations he had with owners when he and Scott were looking for dogs.
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Postby TinaMartin » January 3rd, 2011, 1:40 pm

TinaMartin wrote:
furever_pit wrote:I would be interested in knowing what books you read that in. It's not a story that I have encountered anywhere - book or the men involved in creating and standardizing the breed.

This is just 2 seconds of google. It obviously just scratches the surface.

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/ameri ... story.html
"De patroller wus mi'ty hard on de run a way slaves. Dey wud run my pappy wid dem dogs like dey run rabbits an' some time dey wud ketch my pappy; some times pappy wud out run dem but he dasent go home, cause dey wud come dar to hunt him. She made me stay in de house an' I slept right on de floor in de corner uf her room an' she had a big bull dog dat stayed in dar wid us an' no body better not come bout us to hurt us." From the WPA Slave Narratives: Lewis Jefferson Here, the mention of dogs running down slaves makes no mention of the type of dog used. But he does specify that a bulldog slept in the room with them for protection; thus "no body better not come bout us to hurt us." The bulldog was used for protection and not the running down of slaves in this reference.
"Marse Cleveland had a very bad male hog, (domesticated), and had to keep him in a pen about 10 feet high. Sometimes he would break out of the pen and it would take all the bulldogs in the county to get him back." "My daddy used to hunt rabbits and possums. I went with him and would ride on his back with my feet in his pockets. He had a bulldog named Brutus which was a watch dog. My daddy would lay his hat down anywhere in the woods and Brutus would stay by the hat until he would come back." Ex-Slave Stories - Interview with George Henderson: Here we can see a firsthand account that the bulldog was being used as a stock-dog for domestic animals and a watchdog and not used for the hunt, as "Brutus would stay by the hat until he would come back."
"One former slave asserted that a man from his plantation lived fifteen years in hiding. Such a person might arm himself with a scythe and bulldog for protection." Slavery Remembered Paul D. Escott Why not a hound for protection? Because the bulldog was a guard dog and the hound a hunter
These three statements quoted from slaves are readily available on the WEBPS site. There are also interview accounts in print from Johnson himself talking about conversations he had with owners when he and Scott were looking for dogs.
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Postby Malli » January 3rd, 2011, 1:57 pm

sorry, I'm not familiar with the site, Tina, whats the full name?
As a AB X owner I'm interested in this. What books are there about the AB?
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Postby TinaMartin » January 3rd, 2011, 5:08 pm

http://www.bttbab.com/
The site with the references to the slave accounts is for the White English Bulldog Preservation Society.
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Postby Malli » January 4th, 2011, 4:24 am

thanks :)
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