DEBATE: Breeding Hybrids

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby iluvk9 » December 1st, 2010, 10:12 am

I think there are too many dogs being killed in shelters as it is. If we get more dogs, hybrids, pure breds or whatevers, it just adds to more being killed.
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 1st, 2010, 10:14 am

iluvk9 wrote:I think there are too many dogs being killed in shelters as it is. If we get more dogs, hybrids, pure breds or whatevers, it just adds to more being killed.


:clap:

At the very least, if you're going to breed, help with your breed rescue too...in some way, shape or form.
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 1st, 2010, 12:22 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Since we're switching gears here a bit, how about when another breed is bred in temporarily to reduce the need to dock or crop? Was it the Boxer that had something else bred in to one line so their tails naturally came in short? And then I believe they were able to breed those naturally short-tailed Boxers to others and it continued. And didn't a line of Dalmations have something mixed in to prevent kidney or bladder problems or whatever it is they get?

Back to the original question, I'm torn on it. I hate "hybrid as designer dog" breeding. No ifs ands or buts. I'm slightly more torn on the breeding for sport. I don't like it at all, but I can't rationalize an argument as to why, which I know is silly. But I think breeding for sport is going to create a lot of crazy dogs that would be hell in a non-sport home. And I know people argue that dogs being bred for sport ALL go to sport homes, but I have trouble believing that.

And on a side note, I HATE DETEST LOATHE mixing a pit bull with a guardian breed of any type, whether it's an AB or a Mal. One of the things that makes a pit a pit is its friendliness to strangers, and I fear that breeding in cautious/less friendly dogs is going to create a lot of very strong, not friendly dogs that look like pit bulls and will be labeled as such by the media. :rantSwitch:


AS a vet tech, all boxers have tails as do dobermans, we cut them off at 2 days old. If I see a short taild boxer I'd wonder what was in their gene pool. As for dalmations they are like the melting pot of breeds to begin with. They have all kinds of stuff in them, and are an unstable breed IMO. Nutty, health nightmare, and in all the wrong hands. The breed standard decides if a tail or ears are necessary to maintain the working nature of the breed. I.E. the Alapaha group is still deciding if the tail should or shouldn't be docked as the breed standard (its not recognized yet.) When hog hunting, the less tail you have the less you have to injure! In working dogs, erect ears make them look at attention and more intimidating. (doberman, boxer, etc) I thought tails were docked on rotties b/c of the carting jobs they had and it just kept.

The only breeds I know of supposed to be born without a tail are bulldogs, bostons, and frenchies. THey do have one, its just cork screwed. I do see breeders wanting them docked once in a while though, cuz they are too long. Hoping a buyer won't notice.

AS for hybrids in general I hate it, we see them in rescues and shelters already, and clients are hoping to get that perfect dog that wont need any work. THey are taking the easy way out and finding out its not easy.

The breeders are looking for a quick buck.

AS for working, I agree with Michelle, take the dogs you already have and make them better, don't cross something with aggressive tendancies or faster speed to get a better mutt. Just breed the faster dogs already in your breed, and keep the aggression with bullies as fight drive not guardian aggression. We already get the bad rap from bandogges, lets not add to it. And sorry for fly ball people, but the borderstack sends me over the edge!!!! Staffie, border collie and jack russel!? Can you say nightmare!? There are plenty of mutts that fit that nightmare energy already in shelters, use them! IT was supposed to be a fun outlet for dogs with high energy, not a test for breeding stock.
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 1st, 2010, 12:26 pm

and to add, in f2 and greater generations of hybrid to hybrid, they are loosing the vigor once aimed for. We see temerament issues, addisons disease, bladder stones, liver shunts and thyroid disease the farther along they go. And its because they started with less than ample stock.( a good breeder would never let their dog be part of a hybrid breeding) Put the akc group and the hybrid group in a room and see who wins!
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 1st, 2010, 12:48 pm

Bobtail articles...

http://www.kennelsiggen.com/KENNEL/bobtail.htm

http://www.braquedubourbonnais.info/en/ ... netics.htm

http://wajoma.com/custom3.html


and btw, I've met two dogs (Aussie and mix) born with naturally short "bobtails"...both tails were crooked in the middle, and turned back onto themselves, which made them appear shorter. I guess they'd be technically called "screw tails" But the dog's fur covered it...you could only feel for it...and the end of the tail tapered, which led us to believe that they weren't docked. Odd...it was odd to feel!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 1st, 2010, 1:13 pm

oh yeah, forgot the aussies. CAn't say I've seen an aussie litter that young. Is it natural, or just happened to be those two dogs?
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 1st, 2010, 1:17 pm

Sadly enough, we've docked our breeders corgies tails, so not sure how long they've lost it in their breeding. I've seen only one Braque, beautiful hunting dog. Not familiar with the foreign breeds, I'm sure there are more out there with the bobtail naturally. Wasn't thinking it thru! Sorry...
And I've seen one Dogue de Bordeau that had a cork screw tail naturally. They are supposed to have a normal tail so not sure what happened there! Mabye they had no tail once upon a time too?
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby airwalk » December 1st, 2010, 2:49 pm

hybrids aka mutts aka great american shelter dogs...I usually have about 50 in care.
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 21st, 2011, 8:50 am

Bringing this topic back up...as my new foster puppy...a purebred Aussie, has a NBT, Natural Bobbed Tail. Her brothers and sisters had varying NBT lengths, and some full size tails...(that they kept on). I'll get pics once my cameras are working again
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby call2arms » March 22nd, 2011, 10:14 pm

Not a fan. We see enough Goldendoodles (now a few generations into the breeding) with health issues, those guys are veeery popular in my area... Chronic ear/urinary/eye infections, hip dysplasia, allergies. That can happen to any dog, but to see so many of a specific hybrid with the same issues, can't help but think it's some sort of melting-pot of the worse health issues of both breeds.

Not that recognized breeds don't have enough health issues. Not that all dog's temperament sticks to the breed description. But that should be the focus before creating more "breeds" with problems of their own.

All that, and what Joyce said.
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