WHY?

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby a-bull » May 10th, 2006, 12:53 pm

Malli wrote:For the first year or 2 of his life, I couldn't afford anything better.

Now he eats top quality kibble made to aid in the reguvination of his skin.

I personally do not agree with raw, home made done very carefully perhaps; but I suppose thats a whole other topic.

Malli


agreed . . .
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Postby ParisStreetPitCrew » May 10th, 2006, 1:34 pm

In the case of some people, such as my grandmother, I think the advertisments lead them to believe that they ARE feeding a good food. It's not that she doesn't want to feed her dog a high quality; she simply thinks that she is. I tried switching everyone (extended family) onto Canidae... explaining how it is a better quality food for a better price, etc.... So she switches the dog from Pedigree to Nutro. "But it says healthy and natural right on the bag. AND it has glucosamine" Hmmmph.

Guess I'll just have to buy the Canidae next time and bring it to her. :|
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Postby BigDogBuford » May 10th, 2006, 2:08 pm

ParisStreetPitCrew wrote:In the case of some people, such as my grandmother, I think the advertisments lead them to believe that they ARE feeding a good food. It's not that she doesn't want to feed her dog a high quality; she simply thinks that she is. I tried switching everyone (extended family) onto Canidae... explaining how it is a better quality food for a better price, etc.... So she switches the dog from Pedigree to Nutro. "But it says healthy and natural right on the bag. AND it has glucosamine" Hmmmph.

Guess I'll just have to buy the Canidae next time and bring it to her. :|


Gah, advertising! People do the same thing with shampoo. Pantene is horrible! But on all the advertising it says it's good and it's the most expensive stuff at the grocery so it must be the best, right? *sigh*
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Postby a-bull » May 10th, 2006, 2:14 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:
ParisStreetPitCrew wrote:In the case of some people, such as my grandmother, I think the advertisments lead them to believe that they ARE feeding a good food. It's not that she doesn't want to feed her dog a high quality; she simply thinks that she is. I tried switching everyone (extended family) onto Canidae... explaining how it is a better quality food for a better price, etc.... So she switches the dog from Pedigree to Nutro. "But it says healthy and natural right on the bag. AND it has glucosamine" Hmmmph.

Guess I'll just have to buy the Canidae next time and bring it to her. :|


Gah, advertising! People do the same thing with shampoo. Pantene is horrible! But on all the advertising it says it's good and it's the most expensive stuff at the grocery so it must be the best, right? *sigh*


hmmm . . . I use Pantene. :oops:

Can you start a "good shampoo" thread and tell me what to use instead, lol . . .
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 10th, 2006, 2:22 pm

I have seen a LOT of healthy dogs who lived to be a ripe old age on Dads.

I have seen some top end dogs on raw, or on 50 dollar a bag food, plus suppliments, who are at the vets every few months, go to chiropractors, have problem after problem, allergies, stomach issues, etc.

I think that in the large scheme of things, feeding bad kibble is much less distructive than tying out your dog all day, or letting it run loose, or not speutering, or having bad breeding lines which spit out generation after generation of bad dogs.

That said, I feed raw.
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Postby SisMorphine » May 10th, 2006, 2:22 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Personally, I would never feed my dogs anything besides good feed....but I'm definitely in the minority. I know many people who feed Nutro, Pedigree, etc....Why? Well, I think there are several reasons.

1. People simply don't know any better and fail to educate themselves on feeding better foods (and the benefits of doing so).

2. I have several friends who feed "not so good" foods...they do it because they simply don't have the money to do otherwise. This is not a question of a bottle of Jack Daniels....these are people who look for "free" things to do in my area (which isn't hard since the Smithsonian museums are free, etc)...they really don't have the extra money.

While I think we know how important it is to feed good foods, if one of us found ourselves in a very bad financial hardship, we might also have to feed one of these "less than very good" foods. We may not want to do it, but might have to in order to eat ourselves.

I think it's important to know about a person's reasons for not feeding better foods. If it simply a matter of "non-education" then we can educate them (provide artilces, etc). I think if it's a matter of money, then we can't really judge them. If it's a difference between feeding a "not as good food" or giving the animal up...well, I think we all know what we'd rather see....

I still don't accept the "no money" as an excuse. If I were in need of cash I would strip on amature night once every month to make the dough to feed my dog. I would be a telemarketer . . . again (horrible memories). I would do whatever it took to be able to feed my dog, and myself.

It's like the people who say that the poor can't get any furthur education. They can if they try hard enough and actually have the want to do it (my old roommate worked fulltime and not only put herself through college, but also through grad school). But if people don't actually want to feed their pets good food then they won't make the effort. And that's sad, to not make the effort. And beyond that, to not make the effort to at least LEARN about proper animal nutrition.
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Postby msvette2u » May 10th, 2006, 2:45 pm

Are you saying you don't accept no money as an excuse not to feed the pets PERIOD or not to feed them the highest quality food?
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Postby katiek0417 » May 10th, 2006, 2:52 pm

SisMorphine wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:Personally, I would never feed my dogs anything besides good feed....but I'm definitely in the minority. I know many people who feed Nutro, Pedigree, etc....Why? Well, I think there are several reasons.

1. People simply don't know any better and fail to educate themselves on feeding better foods (and the benefits of doing so).

2. I have several friends who feed "not so good" foods...they do it because they simply don't have the money to do otherwise. This is not a question of a bottle of Jack Daniels....these are people who look for "free" things to do in my area (which isn't hard since the Smithsonian museums are free, etc)...they really don't have the extra money.

While I think we know how important it is to feed good foods, if one of us found ourselves in a very bad financial hardship, we might also have to feed one of these "less than very good" foods. We may not want to do it, but might have to in order to eat ourselves.

I think it's important to know about a person's reasons for not feeding better foods. If it simply a matter of "non-education" then we can educate them (provide artilces, etc). I think if it's a matter of money, then we can't really judge them. If it's a difference between feeding a "not as good food" or giving the animal up...well, I think we all know what we'd rather see....

I still don't accept the "no money" as an excuse. If I were in need of cash I would strip on amature night once every month to make the dough to feed my dog. I would be a telemarketer . . . again (horrible memories). I would do whatever it took to be able to feed my dog, and myself.

It's like the people who say that the poor can't get any furthur education. They can if they try hard enough and actually have the want to do it (my old roommate worked fulltime and not only put herself through college, but also through grad school). But if people don't actually want to feed their pets good food then they won't make the effort. And that's sad, to not make the effort. And beyond that, to not make the effort to at least LEARN about proper animal nutrition.


I had a good friend who went from feeding her dog raw, to having her husband shot and killed, her being laid off, with a child (of 2 years old). She didn't go out. If she did anything with friends it was because we went there...we often brought her food because she was on welfare (and we wanted her to be able to have some extra money)...this is someone with a good education, too (had her M.S)....

She didn't want to give up her dog....Do you know how much her monthly income on unemployment/welfare was? Do you know how much it costs to live in DC? (lets put it this way, if you can find an apartment, and I'm talking an efficiency, for under $1000/month, you're damn lucky, or you're living in a very bad neighborhood).

Some people aren't as fortunate as the rest of us...

And how do you explain elderly adults who are on a fixed income?
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Postby luvmyangels » May 10th, 2006, 2:55 pm

I was curious about that too.
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 10th, 2006, 3:06 pm

a-bull wrote:
BigDogBuford wrote:
ParisStreetPitCrew wrote:In the case of some people, such as my grandmother, I think the advertisments lead them to believe that they ARE feeding a good food. It's not that she doesn't want to feed her dog a high quality; she simply thinks that she is. I tried switching everyone (extended family) onto Canidae... explaining how it is a better quality food for a better price, etc.... So she switches the dog from Pedigree to Nutro. "But it says healthy and natural right on the bag. AND it has glucosamine" Hmmmph.

Guess I'll just have to buy the Canidae next time and bring it to her. :|


Gah, advertising! People do the same thing with shampoo. Pantene is horrible! But on all the advertising it says it's good and it's the most expensive stuff at the grocery so it must be the best, right? *sigh*


hmmm . . . I use Pantene. :oops:

Can you start a "good shampoo" thread and tell me what to use instead, lol . . .


Aussie products rock!! My daughter & I both have long thick hair & Aussie makes it much easier to deal with. I have tried every thing, from expensive designer brands to crap & Aussie is the one I always go back to.
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Postby luvmyangels » May 10th, 2006, 3:07 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
I had a good friend who went from feeding her dog raw, to having her husband shot and killed, her being laid off, with a child (of 2 years old). She didn't go out. If she did anything with friends it was because we went there...we often brought her food because she was on welfare (and we wanted her to be able to have some extra money)...this is someone with a good education, too (had her M.S)....

She didn't want to give up her dog....Do you know how much her monthly income on unemployment/welfare was? Do you know how much it costs to live in DC? (lets put it this way, if you can find an apartment, and I'm talking an efficiency, for under $1000/month, you're damn lucky, or you're living in a very bad neighborhood).

Some people aren't as fortunate as the rest of us...

And how do you explain elderly adults who are on a fixed income?


How horrible for your friend. Sorry to hear about her story.
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 10th, 2006, 3:11 pm

IMO the cost of a bag of quailty dog food may be a bit more expensive at first but you buy less of it than the lesser quality brands so it evens out. It's a matter of paying for it all at once rather than in increments. Normally a quality brand calls for less food fed than a cheap brand so you buy less of it. You are STILL going to end up paying 30-40 dollars to feed your dog. You just don;t buy the food as often.
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Postby msvette2u » May 10th, 2006, 3:14 pm

luvmyangels wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:
I had a good friend who went from feeding her dog raw, to having her husband shot and killed, her being laid off, with a child (of 2 years old). She didn't go out. If she did anything with friends it was because we went there...we often brought her food because she was on welfare (and we wanted her to be able to have some extra money)...this is someone with a good education, too (had her M.S)....

She didn't want to give up her dog....Do you know how much her monthly income on unemployment/welfare was? Do you know how much it costs to live in DC? (lets put it this way, if you can find an apartment, and I'm talking an efficiency, for under $1000/month, you're damn lucky, or you're living in a very bad neighborhood).

Some people aren't as fortunate as the rest of us...

And how do you explain elderly adults who are on a fixed income?



How horrible for your friend. Sorry to hear about her story.



That is so sad :(
Fixed incomes - yeah - my grandparents had a little Shih Tzu for years that they fed freaking Kibbles and Bits to, and he lived a really REALLY nice life and was well-loved until he finally passed away of old age.
Our dogs aren't fed raw (we buy the chicken leg quarters for ourSELVES!) or Timberwolf but they are well loved and when I posted pics, one woman wrote to rave about the way they looked and ask what I fed them! I told her it is my opinion that TLC is at least as important or moreso than diet...that's still my opinion. Our dogs are a part of our pack, they know they are loved, they go on vacations with us, and are our best friends and protectors. I think that's more important than what we feed as long as we're not giving them Ol' Roy!
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Postby luvmyangels » May 10th, 2006, 3:17 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:IMO the cost of a bag of quailty dog food may be a bit more expensive at first but you buy less of it than the lesser quality brands so it evens out. It's a matter of paying for it all at once rather than in increments. Normally a quality brand calls for less food fed than a cheap brand so you buy less of it. You are STILL going to end up paying 30-40 dollars to feed your dog. You just don;t buy the food as often.


I understand the reasoning but when you are down to your last dollars and need to pay rent, pay tuition and buy dog food you do what you can afford at the time.
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Postby ParisStreetPitCrew » May 10th, 2006, 3:25 pm

Hey, there was a time that my bf was homeless because of Jasmine.... and she ate beefsticks and cheese & crackers along with kibbles and bits for at least half a year without any problem.
Needless to say she eats much better these days. She's one of our healthiest dogs, too.
Poor Sidda has eaten high quality kibbles or raw since she was 5 months old, and her health is AWFUL--- bad breeding.
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Postby msvette2u » May 10th, 2006, 3:28 pm

ParisStreetPitCrew wrote:Hey, there was a time that my bf was homeless because of Jasmine.... and she ate beefsticks and cheese & crackers along with kibbles and bits for at least half a year without any problem.

And she was happy and healthy (probably) and didn't know there were dogs sitting in mansions getting the best quality food money can buy...she wasn't missing out on anything!
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Postby katiek0417 » May 10th, 2006, 4:52 pm

msvette2u wrote:That is so sad :(
Fixed incomes - yeah - my grandparents had a little Shih Tzu for years that they fed freaking Kibbles and Bits to, and he lived a really REALLY nice life and was well-loved until he finally passed away of old age.
Our dogs aren't fed raw (we buy the chicken leg quarters for ourSELVES!) or Timberwolf but they are well loved and when I posted pics, one woman wrote to rave about the way they looked and ask what I fed them! I told her it is my opinion that TLC is at least as important or moreso than diet...that's still my opinion. Our dogs are a part of our pack, they know they are loved, they go on vacations with us, and are our best friends and protectors. I think that's more important than what we feed as long as we're not giving them Ol' Roy!


Those are words to live by....in the end our dogs don't know what we feed them. The fact is this: we feed them. Our dogs don't love us because of WHAT we feed them, they love us because we DO feed them...they love us because we love them, and we make them a part of our lives....

You never hear people say "So and so is a good person because he/she fed his/her dog the BEST food possible." What you hear is "So and so is a good person because he/she loved his/her dog more than anything."

In the end, that's what's important.
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Postby turtle » May 10th, 2006, 7:52 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
msvette2u wrote:That is so sad :(
Fixed incomes - yeah - my grandparents had a little Shih Tzu for years that they fed freaking Kibbles and Bits to, and he lived a really REALLY nice life and was well-loved until he finally passed away of old age.
Our dogs aren't fed raw (we buy the chicken leg quarters for ourSELVES!) or Timberwolf but they are well loved and when I posted pics, one woman wrote to rave about the way they looked and ask what I fed them! I told her it is my opinion that TLC is at least as important or moreso than diet...that's still my opinion. Our dogs are a part of our pack, they know they are loved, they go on vacations with us, and are our best friends and protectors. I think that's more important than what we feed as long as we're not giving them Ol' Roy!


Those are words to live by....in the end our dogs don't know what we feed them. The fact is this: we feed them. Our dogs don't love us because of WHAT we feed them, they love us because we DO feed them...they love us because we love them, and we make them a part of our lives....

You never hear people say "So and so is a good person because he/she fed his/her dog the BEST food possible." What you hear is "So and so is a good person because he/she loved his/her dog more than anything."

In the end, that's what's important.


How very true!


A few years ago when I was having money troubles, I was buying "broken" bags (ones with holes in them) for cheap. I was sometimes able to get big bags of Innova for about $10 which really helped. But often I ended up with Premium Edge and other brands. You do what you gotta do...
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Postby pocketpit » May 10th, 2006, 9:29 pm

I feed my dogs food that people think is crap. I beg to differ with them. It's not total grocery store food but it's not in the same league as the foods that are on the top 10 list either.
Yet what I feed them keeps them fit, healthy and looking good. God knows they don't lack for energery! None of them ever visits the vet unless it's for vaccines, to get fixed or a rare minor problem like a laceration or such. Half of them are rescue dogs that I'm sure came from less than stellar breeders.
Hence I am prone to believe to genetics do have a large part in your dogs health problems.
I do also believe that you should be concerned about what you are putting into your dogs and obviously there are foods out there that I simply would never dream of feeding my crew. I've supplemented diets before with a small amount of raw to pack weight on dogs that had difficulty maintaining proper condition but other than that, it's straight kibble for my guys.
The last several months I decided to try an experiment and actually have been feeding them different stuff. I've got California Natural, Innova, Solid Gold, Great Life, Canidae, and a brand called Healthy Wise. Each dog gets a different brand and Brody (who's been with a movie trainer) has been eating a frozen raw diet. While I have noticed a bit of a difference in the poop department, I've discovered no difference in any other area. Not even in the "your dog will eat less" department which I'll admit was my main reason for trying the experiment. My dogs eat a lot and that hasn't changed. Even Brody who's on the raw still requires 6lbs of it a day.
So while I believe that good food is important I'm still not convinced that all those very expensive diets are as great as everyone makes them out to be. I can certainly understand that dogs with allergies and other medical conditions that respond to diet changes need something special and would not hesitate to purchase them if I needed it. But currently I don't have the need and therefore don't find it necessary to spend all the extra money that I don't have in the first place so that I can meet everyone else's approval.
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Postby Jenn » May 10th, 2006, 9:52 pm

Very interesting! How long did you have the dogs on the type of food, if you don't mind me asking?

I can honestly say, that I did notice a difference from the Diamond, to the DVP when I switched, but by looking at pictures and such I honestly can't see that HUGE of a difference. They eat a hell of a lot faster, seem to enjoy it much more, and it doesn't have all the fillers Diamond had. There was so difference in my poop scoop duty.. The difference isn't so much in the amount of poop, though it is a little less more so in the horrid smell of the poop which I appreciate much more being I'm the one shoveling it!! :D
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