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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 1st, 2010, 6:13 pm

At the shelter I volunteer at, they're very open to teaching the shelter dogs with positive reinforcement only. However, I know that several of my friends who also volunteer there are using the trainer who abused Inara with the prong collar and firmly believes in alphas and dominance. Unfortunately, they also are sometimes pleased when adopters show the same behavior, doing things that demonstrate they are going to be the pack leaders to their new dogs.

We have a website for volunteers on which various training articles are posted. I would like to find an easy to read article that covers why dominance theory is out and why marker training is so effective. I've spent a lot of time reading things this afternoon searching, but nothing seemed right. It was either too long, or too scientific, or only covered one thing or the other. Does anybody know of an article that covers both?
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Postby LMM » August 1st, 2010, 6:26 pm

I'm going to give you an email address, she will happily supply you with many articles on just what you are looking for :)
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 1st, 2010, 6:28 pm

Awesome, thanks!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 1st, 2010, 6:37 pm

HA! On my FB page, I had posted the link to the Time article debunking dominance and alphas and one of the volunteers posted under it that obviously whoever wrote that only has one dog or they would believe in the alpha theory too. Unfortunately she deleted it.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby mnp13 » August 1st, 2010, 10:27 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:HA! On my FB page, I had posted the link to the Time article debunking dominance and alphas and one of the volunteers posted under it that obviously whoever wrote that only has one dog or they would believe in the alpha theory too. Unfortunately she deleted it.


Please, invite that volunteer to the DSO with you. They are MORE than welcome to play "dominance theory" with Riggs, or I can probably find a few dogs there that would teach that person that trying to play "alpha" is the absolute wrong way to go about doing anything other than get bit. Well, unless they want to get bit. :|
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Postby TheRedQueen » August 2nd, 2010, 8:42 am

mnp13 wrote:
pitbullmamaliz wrote:HA! On my FB page, I had posted the link to the Time article debunking dominance and alphas and one of the volunteers posted under it that obviously whoever wrote that only has one dog or they would believe in the alpha theory too. Unfortunately she deleted it.


Please, invite that volunteer to the DSO with you. They are MORE than welcome to play "dominance theory" with Riggs, or I can probably find a few dogs there that would teach that person that trying to play "alpha" is the absolute wrong way to go about doing anything other than get bit. Well, unless they want to get bit. :|


Sawyer will be at the DSO...he'll help with this too! And Inara says she's game...if you can catch her!
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Postby katiek0417 » August 2nd, 2010, 9:11 am

A friend of mine from college/grad school posted this on FB a few weeks ago:

Anyone have any suggestions on how to keep our dogs from fighting? Generally they are ok with each other and would have brawls infrequently. However, the fights are becoming much more frequent. Knock on wood, there haven't been any real injuries yet. Our dogs are both boys, both neutered, both from rescues, and both considered seniors (Freddy is 11 and Max is almost 14) but in great shape/health. Suggestions????


Someone got on and actually responded to her with this:

You have to reclaim you're dominance in the house. If you get on top of them and roll them on their back, while stairing into their eyes, you will clame domonice. They should stop fighting after you become pack leader.


Really?
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Postby amalie79 » August 2nd, 2010, 9:43 am

Jeez Louise. Roll them over and STARE INTO THEIR EYES? :shock: yikes. I have this image of doing that and the dog lunging into my face to tear me a new one.

And my dogs are big enough that I think they could take me. :wink:
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Postby LMM » August 2nd, 2010, 11:20 am

I would lo lo lo looooooove for someone to try and alpha roll Mama Girl.
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Postby LMM » August 2nd, 2010, 11:21 am

Katrina, I think my eyes really looked like this :shock: reading that response.

Then I did get a snapshot vision of someone trying to do that to Riggs :mrgreen:
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Postby mnp13 » August 2nd, 2010, 3:12 pm

LMM wrote:Then I did get a snapshot vision of someone trying to do that to Riggs :mrgreen:


Oh dear God... I'm not sure I'd bet on an NFL linebacker coming back non-bloody from doing that to my 45 pound dog.

Frankly, I might be able to do it once, and he'd be pissed off as all hell but he'd give in. But the next time I touched him, well, he likely wouldn't let me touch him again. I owned him for 6 months before he let me even touch him while he was laying down on his side.

People are so stupid with all this dominance crap. And honestly, I DO blame dear old Ceasar for a lot of it, not all of it, but a lot of it... because he talks about being "alpha" all the time, and the "alpha roll" is such a part of old school training. It's like the people who recommend forcing dogs into downs and then standing over them to "prove" dominance. What part of the body is over a dog when you straddle a dog? The inner thigh... isn't that a nice place to risk a bite?

And yeah, the "stare into their eyes" is even worse, it puts the face, and neck in perfect range of a lot of teeth.

Gives me chills... literally.
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Postby maberi » August 2nd, 2010, 3:19 pm

mnp13 wrote:Gives me chills... literally.



The thought of someone doing that to Riggs gives me chills... Riggs is a ham and a sweet dog but that is definitely one thing I would never in a million years try with that dog :crazy2:
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Postby katiek0417 » August 2nd, 2010, 3:24 pm

mnp13 wrote:
LMM wrote:Then I did get a snapshot vision of someone trying to do that to Riggs :mrgreen:




People are so stupid with all this dominance crap. And honestly, I DO blame dear old Ceasar for a lot of it, not all of it, but a lot of it... because he talks about being "alpha" all the time, and the "alpha roll" is such a part of old school training. It's like the people who recommend forcing dogs into downs and then standing over them to "prove" dominance.


When I read the response, my first thought was "wow, she watches too much Caesar..." :rolleyes2: I got right on and told my friend that doing that would be the stupidest thing on earth...and i told her why...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby TheRedQueen » August 2nd, 2010, 3:34 pm

I watched some of the Dog Whisperer the other night...("Know Thine Enemy" and all that jazz).

OMG. :shock: It was a compilation of some of his "worst" cases. The one that killed me was the three dogs fighting in the house...two English bulldogs and an American cocker spaniel. He rolled the bulldogs a couple of times to prove his dominance (I cringed the entire time)...and then put them all on a bench (in sit stays next to each other) out by the pool together (the poor cocker was sending soooooo many calming signals, which of course were ignored...so sad). Because...and I quote..."Pack leaders and dominant dogs will occasionally herd the other pack members together into the same spot to prove dominance." Is he for real? I mean...even if you believed the rest of his non-stop verbal diarrhea :puke: ...has ANYONE ever seen their dog pack sitting in the middle of the yard, brought together by the alpha dog? I mean...Inara would LOVE for this to happen, so she could keep an eye on everyone easier...but she's never DONE it. :doh: I swear he smokes some good stuff to keep these fantastic stories coming!
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Postby amazincc » August 2nd, 2010, 4:42 pm

I alpha-roll each and every one of the five dogs in my house every morning before they even get to go out and pee... I also stare them down, just to get my point across that I expect order and compliance for the rest of the day. :| :neener:





Stupidest thing I've EVER heard... :nono: lol
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