Harley's Stomach Emptying Problem

[iluvk9]

1) No specialist yet. My Vet had it under control as stomach motility problem, then Harley started getting picky about food.

2) I don't think he is nauseous near food, because he wags his tail and lines up with the others as I prepare it. He always was a picky eater, and would turn his nose up to bones, dog cookies, carrots, and the like.

3) Vet mentioned "scoping" him; I don't remember barium being mentioned. X-rays showed no blockages or masses. Blood work was fine.

4) He picks out RICE!!! He sort of uses his front teeth and spits it out and tries to eat around the rice. Dry food even, moistened will get picked out. OR if really mushed, he will throw it up, maybe every 5th meal.

5) Only meds are 1 Reglan a half hour before morning meal and pepcid (generic type) 10 mg, 2 times a day.

This morning he ate a cup of chicken, BUT I had to warm it up. Is it POSSIBLE to have a fussy eater for NON-medical reasons where he just doesn't "like" certain foods now? That is why Vet wanted him to have chix/ hamburger because if he didn't eat those (which he will) Vet said we have another problem going on.

Thank you, everyone for your ideas.

[iluvk9]

Oh, and he would eat canned cat food all day if I let him. When I open Bo's can of Friskies, Harley gets all excited and happy like it may be his. That is why I tried the Canidae "chix, lamb and fish" canned formula, figuring it had a cat food -like smell. He ate it one meal and refused it the next.

Vet once suggested spreading a little cat canned on dry food to see if he would eat it. He picked out the dry and sort of licked off the cat food.

[madremissy]

I told you, he is just loving your cooking.

[Malli]

When I said blend the food I meant BLEND it, as in,in a blender Have you tried that? If everything has been blended, I highly doubt he'll be able to pick it out...

It is possible he just doesn't like certain foods, I think most dogs will develop preferences if they are indulged enough, because really, I doubt anyone would want to eat dog food every day...

[iluvk9]

When I said blend the food I meant BLEND it, as in,in a blender Have you tried that? If everything has been blended, I highly doubt he'll be able to pick it out...

Yes, I did blend it in a blender and he just looks at me like "No way, Lady Pants." And walks away.

It is possible he just doesn't like certain foods, I think most dogs will develop preferences if they are indulged enough, because really, I doubt anyone would want to eat dog food every day...

And I have certainly indulged him, since I am afraid he won't eat at all and lose more weight. So, if it is possible for me to have added to his finicky eating, I did.


Vet visit: Back on reglan, pepcid and sucralfate, all two times a day. Continue to give him chicken or hamburger. I am to try Science Diet canned this time.

I am also going to make food that Angie sent me a link for. She fed it to Vinny-Bo-Binny when he wasn't feeling well and he ate it.

Ironically, the Vet tech offered him a "Milk Bone" cookie. I said... no way. Well, after the Vet Tech made "yummy sounds" like he was eating it, Harley ate THREE. The Vet saw it and I told him Harley NEVER ate dog biscuits. So, Vet, in waiting area, makes yummy noises (at my insistence) and Harley ate another one. Gotta love my Vet.

[madremissy]

I am glad he didn't lose anymore weight and I told you before, I think he loves your cooking. So now I guess you have to act like you are eating it and making yummy noises.

[iluvk9]

I am glad he didn't lose anymore weight and I told you before, I think he loves your cooking. So now I guess you have to act like you are eating it and making yummy noises.

I will bark like a dog, if it helps him eat.

[HappyChick]

YES! Make yummy noises. Anything to get him to eat!!

[TheRedQueen]

Okay, so are you heading to a specialist?

Not to nag...but picky eating is one thing...but dogs don't become anorexic unless things are wrong. This worries me immensely.

[Malli]

And I have certainly indulged him, since I am afraid he won't eat at all and lose more weight. So, if it is possible for me to have added to his finicky eating, I did.

But in the same thought, it must be very difficult to tell "sick" Harley from "picky" Harley, and we can't have him wasting away.

If I were in your place, I would get him eating whatever he wants steadily, and then switch back to a more sustainable all-around diet; then if he stops eating then you know that he is simply being picky.

If he wants to eat only boiled chicken, let him eat boiled chicken, I can think of much much worse things. unless, of course, your vet has already given you some instruction completely to the contrary

[amazincc]

Okay, so are you heading to a specialist?

Not to nag...but picky eating is one thing...but dogs don't become anorexic unless things are wrong. This worries me immensely.

I agree... most dogs WILL eventually eat if they're hungry enough, and they won't be picky about what's in their bowl.

Sending good thoughts your way...

[Malli]

I dunno, my parents dog held out for 5 DAYS on a kibble she simply didn't like - they switched kibble a couple of times and finally found one she liked. My own Oscar boy has held out for about the same with a few nibbles when he didn't like a new kibble as well...

As long as Harley is otherwise himself, I am concerned myself, but not in an urgent manner.

[madremissy]

Joyce asked me to post because she had a hard time getting on the forum this morning. She didn't want anyone to think she was ignoring their posts.

This is what she sent me this morning. At least he is eating.

He didn't like the 100% meat./ Wellness. He did eat the Natural Balance beef "roll thing" that looked like a sausage. He also ate some cheese I offered him. So, at least he ate this morning. No puking so far, so that is good

[TheRedQueen]

I dunno, my parents dog held out for 5 DAYS on a kibble she simply didn't like - they switched kibble a couple of times and finally found one she liked. My own Oscar boy has held out for about the same with a few nibbles when he didn't like a new kibble as well...

As long as Harley is otherwise himself, I am concerned myself, but not in an urgent manner.

Sure...I've had dogs (Xander, Fig) not enjoy a *kibble*...which to me is different than not enjoying meat or canned foods. (Xander used to go almost a week without eating kibble...and would stop eating to go play ball!) Kibble is not that appetizing, in comparison to real meat or wet canned food...so for him to be turning up his nose at THAT? How often have you seen a dog refuse to eat tantilizing foods like that? I know Jenn (Fenella) had trouble with Murphy eating and losing weight a while back, but it was linked to his prozac use...so there was an underlying reason.

I wonder if it's like a "poisoning the reinforcer" problem that you can get in training...where basically you can make a dog NOT want to eat a certain food if you use it for something they don't want/like. For example...you lure a dog across an agility dog walk with hot dogs...the dog is scared, and from then on, hot dogs bring a bad memory...so the dog starts refusing hot dogs.

If his stomach hurts or is upset, say, after he eats...he could be linking it to the food...which would then make him refuse it the next time.

Just thinking out loud here...

[TinaMartin]

Poor Harley. I hope the cause of this is figured out soon.

[Malli]

I dunno, my parents dog held out for 5 DAYS on a kibble she simply didn't like - they switched kibble a couple of times and finally found one she liked. My own Oscar boy has held out for about the same with a few nibbles when he didn't like a new kibble as well...

As long as Harley is otherwise himself, I am concerned myself, but not in an urgent manner.

Sure...I've had dogs (Xander, Fig) not enjoy a *kibble*...which to me is different than not enjoying meat or canned foods. (Xander used to go almost a week without eating kibble...and would stop eating to go play ball!) Kibble is not that appetizing, in comparison to real meat or wet canned food...so for him to be turning up his nose at THAT? How often have you seen a dog refuse to eat tantilizing foods like that? I know Jenn (Fenella) had trouble with Murphy eating and losing weight a while back, but it was linked to his prozac use...so there was an underlying reason.

I wonder if it's like a "poisoning the reinforcer" problem that you can get in training...where basically you can make a dog NOT want to eat a certain food if you use it for something they don't want/like. For example...you lure a dog across an agility dog walk with hot dogs...the dog is scared, and from then on, hot dogs bring a bad memory...so the dog starts refusing hot dogs.

If his stomach hurts or is upset, say, after he eats...he could be linking it to the food...which would then make him refuse it the next time.

Just thinking out loud here...

I should mention that my parents suspect that their dog, whom they got from someone else, was fed off table scraps.
I thought Joyce said he liked the ground beef and the chicken? Maybe I misread...

Could be. I know I did that with Oscar. I had "healthy" (read : not super tantilizing) dog treats for Oscar, and after giving to him so I could give him meds or giving them after meds to try to reward him he eventually started refusing them altogether. With him we were lucky and we took a break for a while and started using them as a regular reward and he accepted them/appreciated them again.

[iluvk9]

Thanks for the discussion; it keeps me thinking.

Since his last Vet visit, 7 months ago, he has remained the same weight. THAT weight is 15-ish pounds less than what he normally was.

My Vet and I have discussed getting him "scoped" and taking a biopsy of inside his stomach and a look around to see if there is any mass or whatever in there. We have decided to hold off on that.

Harley has stopped puking by about 95%. He will eat the chicken or hamburger meat but doesn't eat them more than three meals in a row. He turns his nose up on the fourth time, so then I switch.

I would prefer to have him eat better quality dog food then the crap I have tried this past few weeks. At this point, I just need to keep him eating.

As for the analogy with reinforcing a behavior, as Erin mentioned, he was throwing up meals with kibble, so maybe that was his trigger. He doesn't get kibble now, since I have tried over 8 brands and he won't even look at them. Dry, moistened, something spread over them...doesn't matter.

I am on overload and feel like all I do is try new foods and lurk while I watch to see if he eats.

If it is not mealtime, he drinks water, plays rough with the others, and appears normal.

[HappyChick]

Is his poo normal?

[Ino]

I don't know if your local store sells this, but I have been occasionally buying ground bison at shoprite for Ino and I boil it up for him (and I pour him some of the water I boiled it in)and he loves it. It is similar in texture to the beef, but I can't give him beef because he gets very soft stools from it (I guess too rich for him??). It seems like it is less oily and breaks up easier when boiled than beef does and it makes a more bloody gravy/juice than fatty/oily. The main down side to it is it can be pricey. The small package runs about $6.00 compared to beef that size would be around $3.00. If your store carries it, it may be one more feeding option to add to the variety, since he won't eat a specific meat too many times in a row. Just a thought- best wishes for Harley.

[call2arms]

I would definitely do he scope + biopsies... There's picky and picky... Eating hamburger one day and lifting his nose the next... Sounds like a cat.

And the bloodwork was all fine, and he seems fine except for throwing up and eating inconsistently. That's puzzling.