Butt out while heeling?

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 18th, 2010, 8:50 am

I know we're still new to this whole heeling business, but Inara's butt swings out to the left as she heels. She's got gorgeous attention on me and a lovely gait, but her butt swings out. I'm sure it's more comfortable so her neck doesn't have to crane as much but we'll eventually lose points for not heeling straight.

I know I can heel against a wall, and Ginger said to watch her out of the corner of my eye and click anytime she's heeling straight, but are there any other suggestions?

Just on a side note, we can actually do a fair amount of heeling without a treat in my hand now! I still have them in a bait bag on my hip, but it's still progress!
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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2010, 2:48 pm

The wall is a really good method...but also a lot of left turns into her...and turn into her leading with your right leg brought up really high...you don't have to knee her, but if she thinks she might get kneed, she might learn to stay back, which will keep her butt in...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 18th, 2010, 3:10 pm

So she's swinging out because she's forging a bit? I wouldn't have thought about left turns helping with the butt swinging. Thanks!
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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2010, 3:19 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:So she's swinging out because she's forging a bit? I wouldn't have thought about left turns helping with the butt swinging. Thanks!


Well, Inara is pretty small, right? Nisha is small, and she tends to swing her butt out, not because she's forging so much as it is caused by her her body being so small...so, she looks up at me, but with her body being tiny, her butt swings out...

But I found that when I started to turn into her, it forced her to keep her butt in, but b/c she still knew she had to watch me, she still kept eye contact by looking up rather than curving her head in front of me to look up...does that make sense?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 18th, 2010, 3:38 pm

It does, yeah. Inara's 46 lbs, so relatively small in the grand scheme of things. And she does like Nisha did - try to curve her head in front of me.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2010, 6:40 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:It does, yeah. Inara's 46 lbs, so relatively small in the grand scheme of things. And she does like Nisha did - try to curve her head in front of me.


Nisha is 48 lbs...so, without seeing it, I imagine it's the same thing going on...

Part of the problem was because of me, I'll admit...I thought that the dog had to curve it's head to keep attention...instead she just turns her head a bit and up...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 18th, 2010, 6:50 pm

During our practice this evening I made sure that I only clicked when her head was closer to my knee, as opposed to her shoulder, and then I treated in that position as well. I'm sure I'm most of the problem as well. Harder to train me than Inara!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2010, 6:53 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:During our practice this evening I made sure that I only clicked when her head was closer to my knee, as opposed to her shoulder, and then I treated in that position as well. I'm sure I'm most of the problem as well. Harder to train me than Inara!


trust me...it's the same with me... :rolleyes2:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby furever_pit » July 18th, 2010, 10:47 pm

Dylan used to do that whole thing where he was wrapping his head around in front of me and he would be all crooked in the rear too. I did a couple of things to work with him on this, a few of which have already been mentioned. I like heeling against walls and fences because it creates "muscle memory" for lack of a better term. I also made a lot of left turns and I would knee him with when his head was in the way. You can also correct your dog straight back as you go into a left turn. I think the thing that helped the most with Dylan though was doing some rear end awareness exercises. I had him put his front feet on a low stool (like a kid's i-need-to-reach-the-bathroom-sink stool) and as I moved around the stool in circles I marked and rewarded him for moving his hind feet so that he kept his body straight. He got nothing for simply craning his neck.

Here is a video of our first session on the stool thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDslB2U_KP4

I do some minor heeling with him at the end and you can see how much he started moving into position with his rear.

I hope that helps!
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Postby TheRedQueen » July 18th, 2010, 11:25 pm

Pat Hastings talked briefly about the attention heel today at the seminar...she hates it, as it throws the dog's body out of whack...and she doesn't think it's comfortable (or necessary).

I don't personally train for it, because I find it uncomfortable to hold my head at funny angles for any period of time (she also mentioned that I must have a neck problem from watching me prop my head up all afternoon...but that's another story)...so I won't make my dogs do it.

That said, I do use perch work for heeling...easy to do at home, and the rear end awareness helps with so many other things!
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 19th, 2010, 7:35 am

I'm not actually trying to specifically teach an attention heel, it's just what Inara offers me! So obviously this won't be what we use for regular walks or anything, just for competitions, because I agree that it can't be comfortable. But hey, who am I to argue with what she wants to offer? lol

I hadn't thought about perch work - thanks for that idea! And I love Dylan's tail wag the entire time! :)
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby TheRedQueen » July 19th, 2010, 7:42 am

pitbullmamaliz wrote:I'm not actually trying to specifically teach an attention heel, it's just what Inara offers me! So obviously this won't be what we use for regular walks or anything, just for competitions, because I agree that it can't be comfortable. But hey, who am I to argue with what she wants to offer? lol


Yeah, wasn't aiming that at anyone...just bringing it up since we discussed it today at the seminar! ;) Score gives me nice attention...but I don't make him do it...so yeah, I know what you're saying! lol

I hadn't thought about perch work - thanks for that idea! And I love Dylan's tail wag the entire time! :)


Yup, the perch work has really helped The Wiener figure out what he's supposed to do...now if I can just get my butt in gear and work him before the DSO, we'll be doing really well!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby LisaM » July 19th, 2010, 8:50 am

What hand are you rewarding her from? Left or Right?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 19th, 2010, 9:08 am

Left. :)
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby katiek0417 » July 19th, 2010, 1:12 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Left. :)


thought of a couple of things on the way home today.

First, when you reward her, do you stop and then reward or do you reward while she is still heeling?

Second, have you ever watched yourselves in a mirror when you are in the heel position but stopped (so, when Inara is sitting next to you)?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 19th, 2010, 2:42 pm

I reward while we are moving.

Never seen us in a mirror, period!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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