Decision 2008

Everything that doesn't fit anywhere else!

Postby hugapitbull » May 16th, 2010, 6:38 pm

Michelle's response is the grassroots of why folks are so upset. When did Americans (black, white, purple, or green) become too good to live the lives Michelle has described. It worked for tens of years, and now for some reason, folks think life doesn't require work, or goals, or challenges. It sickens me, and saddens me to think this is what our great nation has become.
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Postby Marinepits » May 16th, 2010, 6:49 pm

The Left's 20 Rules of Racism by Tom Kratman

1. If you believe that general intelligence exists, is heritable and at all testable for, you're a racist.

2. If you point out that liberal philosophies and programs intended to have a good impact have had a disproportionately bad impact on the ethnicities targeted by liberals, you're a racist.

3. If you notice that other cultures have some problems, you're a racist.

4. If you notice your own culture has had some successes, you're a racist.

5. If you try to identify subcultural problems, you're a racist. If the problems existed or got worse under liberalism, see item 2, above.

6. If you're mainstream American culture, and don't hate that culture, you're a racist.

7. If you're capable of noting unpleasant facts about subcultures and discussing them without your brain fogging, you're a racist.

8. If you won't kowtow and grovel as soon as someone accuses you of racism for one of the reasons above or below, you're a hopeless racist.

9. If you do not believe that mankind is a tabula rasa for liberals to make whatever they think would be good to make of man, this week, you're a racist.

10. If you don't take personal responsibility for all the evils of slavery, you're a racist. This is true even if you only arrived from Poland last week.

11. If you're white, you're a racist.

12. If you're white and just arrived from Poland last week and don't accept that you're a racist, you're a racist.

13. If you try to interject logical thought into a discussion of culture, you're a racist.

14. If you refuse to admit culture is a racial matter, and a liberal wants to conflate the two, you're a racist.

15. If you believe that race and culture are indistinguishable and a liberal decides that you shouldn't conflate the two, you're a racist.

16. If you believe that black or Hispanic girls who are paid by liberal inspired programs from the age of 13 to have babies will have babies, you're a racist.

17. If you believe that _any_ girls of whatever color who are paid to have babies will then have babies but then, insensitively, observe that a smaller percentage of white girls do, certainly because they haven't been targeted for as much "help" from liberals, you're a racist.

18. If it doesn't bother you that the truth offends liberals, you're a racist.

19. If your name is Tom Kratman and you write and in your writing your heroes and heroines tend to be from minorities while your villains are white liberals, you're still a racist.

20. If you read The Bell Curve, you're a racist. On the other hand, if you didn't read it but wrote a scathing review on Amazon anyway you might not be a racist provided you take personal responsibility for 300 years of slavery even if you just arrived from Poland last week.
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Postby demolitionic » May 16th, 2010, 6:53 pm

I hate the current administration for a whole lot of reasons, and not a single one of them is race related.

However, I appreciate the fact that instead of arguing facts with people or pointing out legitimate reasons you support the administration you do, you choose to just call me a racist for disagreeing with you.

It really helps me to think highly of your fellow democrats.

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Postby demolitionic » May 16th, 2010, 7:04 pm

You believe in civil liberties? YOU RACIST!

You support the Constitution? YOU'RE A smurfing RACIST!

You advocate personal responsibility? YOU HATE THE BLACK MAN!

You're an enemy of undeserved entitlement? YOU'RE A BIGOTED OPPRESSOR!

You realize that social programs like food stamps and welfare were never intended to be long term solutions and were created as a result of the New Deal and as currently structured are bankrupting tax coffers for productive citizens? YOU'RE A HATE MONGER!

Tell you what, slick - instead of name calling and hopping way the smurf up on your high horse so far into left field you can't see what's what anymore, I'll give you something to think about.

There is NO better way to keep a demographic at the BOTTOM than giving them just enough to keep them going without giving them reason to aspire to be better. By giving handouts to people who are "victims of the system", we are telling them that there is NO reason to get an education, to get a job, to make something of themselves, for their own sakes and for posterity. You are telling them that they are entitled to handouts, because they are inferior to you. Why else would YOU need to take care of THEM? I am telling them they are no better and no worse, so they deserve the same thing I do - a chance to seek education and work and build a life off of one's own efforts. So who's the racist here, Captain Handout? Because it sure as hell isn't me.

Play the race card elsewhere.
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Postby Pit♥bull » May 16th, 2010, 7:06 pm

demolitionic wrote:If there were a smiley that were flipping the bird, it would go here.
middlefinger.gif
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Postby demolitionic » May 16th, 2010, 7:10 pm

AND - acting like 5 year olds?

All the 5 year olds I know stand around with their hands out demanding to be given shit. So you're right - the country IS acting like 5 year olds. But you're obviously mistaken about the reason.
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Postby demolitionic » May 16th, 2010, 7:10 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:
demolitionic wrote:If there were a smiley that were flipping the bird, it would go here.
middlefinger.gif


This.
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Postby mnp13 » May 16th, 2010, 7:16 pm

btw

As we speak of "entitlement", I am now unemployed. I have payed into unemployment (or my employer anyway). I am "entitled" to unemployment. Of course, the setup of unemployment is total crap, they take a percentage of your wages, but they pay out with a cap.

Frankly, since they force employers to pay into it, I really don't look at it as "welfare". Having worked for a small business for the past 7 years, I know from personal experience, I would have been paid a lot more had taxes / fees / and all that other crap been less.
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Postby Marinepits » May 16th, 2010, 9:53 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:
AllAmericanPUP wrote:You can cover it up with a bunch of BS articles about how he's so terrible and he just wants to ruin this country but at the root of it all the truth is that you people can't handle the fact that there is a colored man in the oval office.


Michelle's response was much nicer than mine would be, so I'll leave it at this: how DARE you call me racist just because I don't like somebody's politics? That's complete and utter BS and it pisses me off. A lot.


You know what's really sad? The race card has been played SO often by virtually everyone in the liberal camp lately that it has lost its meaning. I used to get offended, irritated, pissed off, what have you, when people have called me racist just because I don't agree with the current administration's socialist policies, but now I'm like "whatever". If someone wants to have a real discussion, then have at it. But tossing out the race card really is just bullshit.
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Postby demolitionic » May 16th, 2010, 10:00 pm

Well how else do you defend yourself against logic?
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Postby airwalk » May 16th, 2010, 10:30 pm

AllAmericanPUP wrote:All I can say is this country as a whole disgusts me. The way so called adults act is unreal.

You can cover it up with a bunch of BS articles about how he's so terrible and he just wants to ruin this country but at the root of it all the truth is that you people can't handle the fact that there is a colored man in the oval office.

It's no mystery as to why we have never had a black man in the white house, any good black man that has spoke up for this country has been snuffed out and now that there is one in the white house this country is acting like a bunch of damn 5 yr olds. Bravo to you all. No wonder we are destroying ourselves when people still can't look past the color of a man's skin.

It's beyond sickening.


Oh my lord, you truly and honestly did not post that did you? You don't know me and you certainly do not know my biases...and frankly I can positively assure you that the color of ones skin is not a bias of mine....I grew up in communities that were as diverse as they come and have never allowed the color of ones skins to interfere with my opinions or judgements.

I believe that Obama may indeed be a very a good thing for this Country because he has awoken those that previously slept through their contented, middle class lives.

Please be assured Biden is not black and I have no use for his performance either.

Do not judge me, do not issue such incredibly inane blanket statements about issues of which you have absolutely no knowledge. Unless you fully expect me to respond
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Postby airwalk » May 16th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Tell you what, slick - instead of name calling and hopping way the smurf up on your high horse so far into left field you can't see what's what anymore, I'll give you something to think about.

There is NO better way to keep a demographic at the BOTTOM than giving them just enough to keep them going without giving them reason to aspire to be better. By giving handouts to people who are "victims of the system", we are telling them that there is NO reason to get an education, to get a job, to make something of themselves, for their own sakes and for posterity. You are telling them that they are entitled to handouts, because they are inferior to you. Why else would YOU need to take care of THEM? I am telling them they are no better and no worse, so they deserve the same thing I do - a chance to seek education and work and build a life off of one's own efforts. So who's the racist here, Captain Handout? Because it sure as hell isn't me.


Exactly, the maintenance of entitle programs is simply a way to maintain a second class of citizens that are beholding to the government and can be controlled and manipulated. If you control everything about their lives you can also control their thoughts and actions. The true danger to any administration is those that work for a living, save for the future, think for themselves AND VOTE THEIR BELIEFS.
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Postby BullyLady » May 16th, 2010, 10:35 pm

AllAmericanPUP wrote:All I can say is this country as a whole disgusts me. The way so called adults act is unreal.

You can cover it up with a bunch of BS articles about how he's so terrible and he just wants to ruin this country but at the root of it all the truth is that you people can't handle the fact that there is a colored man in the oval office.

It's no mystery as to why we have never had a black man in the white house, any good black man that has spoke up for this country has been snuffed out and now that there is one in the white house this country is acting like a bunch of damn 5 yr olds. Bravo to you all. No wonder we are destroying ourselves when people still can't look past the color of a man's skin.

It's beyond sickening.


I proudly voted for Obama and am quite happy with the way his administration has been going, but... I don't want you on my side spewing that kind of junk. I'm sure that there are those unhappy about the fact that a black man is in office, but it is rude and irresponsible to say that everyone who doesn't like Obama is racist.
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Postby mnp13 » May 16th, 2010, 10:36 pm

The problem is, I have a family member who is very much in the "help them all" camp. I saw a speech that Obama gave where he said something along the lines of "I make more money, so I should pay more money into the system."

NO.

The people who make the most money are the ones who usually are do put the most in, but in the way of owning businesses - which have employees. Instead, the entitlement government would rather tax them 6 ways from Wednesday, so that they can't afford to have employees... or stay in business...

One of the things that I am very good at is fixing up houses. The work I did at my last house was quite good, and I did much of it myself, I bought it for 40,000 and sold it 5 years later for more than double that. Someone asked me if I thought about flipping houses for a while. I would L-O-V-E that. One big problem there is lack of initial capital, the other problem is that the government kills you on taxes. God forbid you take a huge risk and it pays off for you... "Sweat equity" doesn't have receipts for write offs either.

But someone has to pay for all of the people who are entitled to all that free stuff!!
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » May 17th, 2010, 1:55 am

mnp13 wrote:Actually, and I'm just speaking for myself, my dislike has nothing to do with the color of his skin. (I'll spare you the "I have black friends" speech :wink: lol )

but I do, I swear!! No, really! I even have a picture in my phone to prove it!

I was raised by parents who I would generally define as "liberal." My father attended Woodstock. My mother had all three of us before she was 28, my parents were married before they were 20, started with nothing, and have worked for everything they have now. They have worked their asses off for my entire life.

My mother's father was the son of an immigrant, and he died when my grandfather was 3. My grandfather was raised by his mother - and she worked as a cook, a maid, a nurse and many other jobs. My grandfather had to be sent to friends and family growing up because her jobs often required her to live at her employers, when he was 7, he had to bring his own dog to be put to sleep at the vet's office because the aunt he was to be staying with wouldn't let him bring the dog. When my grandfather was old enough, he started working for the Canadian Railroad doing surveying, and sending money home. At one point, there was a mixup with checks and the checks that he thought were being sent to his mom were sitting in an office. She was evicted from her home. When he got back from a 6 month survey, she was living in a room in the church, because in Canada in 1935, in a town of 150 people, the church was "welfare."

My mother's mother's family owned one of the mills that the the government took during WWII for "the war effort." After the war, the family business wasn't quite right again, so it was sold. Grandma was a teacher, served dinner every night at 6:00, and Sunday dinner was in the dining room on the china with the silver. Because "that is how it is."

My father's father was in the navy, like his father was, like his was. When he retired he worked for the post office.

My father's mother was in the ladies auxiliary, was involved in the national level, raised three boys and was a stay at home mom.

My point? I look at my parents - who started out as two teenagers who realized it was time to get married ( :wink: ) And somehow in 40 years managed stay married, raise three kids, stay out of debt, stay out of trouble, pay taxes, put their kids in public schools, put their kids through college, get all three going in the right direction.

My parents both came from "normal" families. They didn't have trust funds, and they barely had bank accounts when they started. When they had my sister, they needed food stamps at the very beginning. My mom made wedding dresses to pay for rent and food, my dad put himself through college with a full academic scholarship.

I look at the current administration and it just plain pisses me off. This administration is all about entitlement - everyone "deserves" everything. Bullshit. I think people deserve basic things, and medical care is one of them, but this is far beyond medical care....

Corporate bailouts? piss me off. You ran your company into the ground, so it went out of business. Tough shit. Make a better product and compete in the marketplace. That's how capitalism works.

Credit card bailouts? piss me off. You signed that agreement. You should have read the damn thing. You can see the numbers in the fine print, the interest rate is right there in black and white. You bought that shit, now pay for it. I have no sympathy - and I'm in the same boat, and I'm paying for it every day.

Every time I turn on the tv I see another government run program that SCREAMS "entitlement." Now there is one that will give you a cell phone and 200 free minutes a month. I'm sorry? WHAT? Who pays for that??? I do. You do. Somehow, I grew up without a cellphone. So did millions of other people. But now, the government has decided people are entitled to cellphones as some kind of "basic right of being an American."

So, in 40 years, from nothing, though hard work, my parents have made something of themselves... and taa-daa! The reward? Current government says "We get to take a HUGE chunk of that because we DESERVE it." why do we deserve it? well, because we SAY we deserve it! Because YOU have it, and the people who sit on their asses and "deserve a cell phone with 200 minutes a month" ... but someone has to pay for that!!!!

And quite frankly... I don't care what color the guy's skin is. He could be purple, with pink stripes...

This administration has become more and more entitlement based, and it sickens me. There are people who truly need help. And THOSE people should get help, but "needing help" in my world is health care, education, clothing, food and shelter. It's not a cell phone. It's not bailing out people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place. It's not bailing out banks who wrote bad mortgages. It's none of that crap.

He's the head of the administration - when I think of it I think of him.



I agree with all of it but i don't see how people can blame Obama for everything when the majority of it was bush's fault AND the fact that the president doesn't even have the most power. the senate and house do. I don't agree with everything obama does but i don't act like he's horrible and wants to destroy us all.
Obama is like every other present, he's doing the best he can.
obama could make a perfect bill for health care or anything else but it would still get shot down or twisted and changed when it hits the house and senate. So to blame everything on one man is ridiculous. There is wrong happening from both sides of the fences.
I've always found it to be sad that a country that is suppose to be united has always been split by 2 sides.

I do apologize for my first post but I'm just so tired of the way people act, both left and right.
Bush was a pretty bad president but i don't think he wasn't a deviate and he tried and he did do some good things. Yet people act like Obama is the worse thing in the world, as if he's slaughtering babies on the front lawn of the white house.

In a perfect world we would be able to give those things to those who go without(like cell phones for instance since u brought it up) and they would use that cell phone to get a job and better themselves, but obviously in reality they just use it to call friends and buy drugs and god knows what else. In reality you can't give people things they don't earn because they don't know what to do with it so they do the wrong things. Even things like food stamps are so horribly mistreated, in my town people sell their food stamps for drugs and alcohol.
You'd think people would realize that just giving people money and things doesn't fix anything and usually makes it worse.

I 100% believe that people are not "entitled" to anything except what they work for, I don't want you guys to think i somehow think people are entitled to government assistance.

I personally have never been on any government assistance but my parents have received food stamps when we were kids and my sister and 1 brother have as well.

Me and my brother matt lived off of $600 a month at one point, granite we didn't have to pay rent but we did have to buy food, pay electric, water and cable/internet. but we made it work.

Food stamps is a big thing i have issues with because it's suppose to be something for people who need some help while they are down on their luck but it's turned into just another welfare king's dream and those who truly do need it at bad times are made to feel low.

Again i apologize for my previous post, i should probably step away from forums for a bit
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Postby BullyLady » May 17th, 2010, 2:09 am

AllAmericanPUP wrote:I do apologize for my first post but I'm just so tired of the way people act, both left and right.


No buts. Statements like your earlier one serve no purpose except to make you look like a fanatic.

Once you calmed down and posted rationally I agreed with everything you had to say. :)
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Postby TheRedQueen » May 17th, 2010, 9:18 am

BullyLady wrote:
AllAmericanPUP wrote:I do apologize for my first post but I'm just so tired of the way people act, both left and right.


No buts. Statements like your earlier one serve no purpose except to make you look like a fanatic.

Once you calmed down and posted rationally I agreed with everything you had to say. :)


Ditto...:)

Posting things like your original post...put everyone's back up, and then the "you democrats" and "you liberals" comments start coming out...and I get lumped into your fanaticism...;)
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Postby Pit♥bull » May 17th, 2010, 9:49 am

Looks like I started something :D

I sincerely believe that voters have no business going to the polls uninformed, they need to vote with their brains instead of hearts.
Research is key and I feel very little is done to this end.
There is going to be a rebellion in November at the polls and if this doesn't do the trick then look out - Because "we won't be taking it anymore"
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Postby Marinepits » May 17th, 2010, 3:04 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:I sincerely believe that voters have no business going to the polls uninformed, they need to vote with their brains instead of hearts.


I couldn't agree with you more, Bob.
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Postby airwalk » May 17th, 2010, 3:43 pm

I agree with all of it but i don't see how people can blame Obama for everything when the majority of it was bush's fault AND the fact that the president doesn't even have the most power. the senate and house do. I don't agree with everything obama does but i don't act like he's horrible and wants to destroy us all.
Obama is like every other present, he's doing the best he can.
obama could make a perfect bill for health care or anything else but it would still get shot down or twisted and changed when it hits the house and senate. So to blame everything on one man is ridiculous. There is wrong happening from both sides of the fences.
I've always found it to be sad that a country that is suppose to be united has always been split by 2 sides.


Again, I differ from you. I don't think THE MAJORITY of it is either President's fault...I think the current state of affairs is the fault of the American People sleeping through their lives with little thought or involvement. I think the fault lays with long standing policies that were established for a temporary fix that were quickly exploited by those wishing to maintain control over a mass of citizens..

I do not believe he is trying to destroy us all - however, I do believe that many of his misguided policies and practices could do exactly that if they were left standing long term.

I completely agree that the House and Senate have more power than most people realize. It always dismays me when people can't even name their representatives and vote without having any idea of where these people stand on issues of importance.

This Country has never been united...it is a Republic and by it's very nature has differing opinions and pathways, it's how we manage those differing opinions that defines us as a nation.


I do apologize for my first post but I'm just so tired of the way people act, both left and right.
Bush was a pretty bad president but i don't think he wasn't a deviate and he tried and he did do some good things. Yet people act like Obama is the worse thing in the world, as if he's slaughtering babies on the front lawn of the white house
.

Again with the sensationalist statements. I have never read or heard anyone, beside you, make this accusation. I'm sure such statements further the course of intelilgent conversation.

In a perfect world we would be able to give those things to those who go without(like cell phones for instance since u brought it up) and they would use that cell phone to get a job and better themselves, but obviously in reality they just use it to call friends and buy drugs and god knows what else. In reality you can't give people things they don't earn because they don't know what to do with it so they do the wrong things. Even things like food stamps are so horribly mistreated, in my town people sell their food stamps for drugs and alcohol.
You'd think people would realize that just giving people money and things doesn't fix anything and usually makes it worse.


and here is the base of the fundamental difference. I agree with Michelle..people in a country such as ours should have the emergency net for the essentials..food, shelter, medical care...however, I do not see giving someone a cell phone (even in a perfect world) appropriate. In a perfect world, people would work, they would toil, they would seek to care for themselves rather than expecting those of us that do work ... to take care of them. Thus my statement about entitlement programs being designed to maintain and easily manipulated, managed group of second class citizens.
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