Feline Struvites/Food Choices

Postby ArtGypsy » May 16th, 2010, 8:16 pm

Hey Gang............

Well, I did it again. :(

I put off getting the C/D food for Cinco and started feeding him the IAMS , with the other cats.

:sad2: :sad2: :(

So, I have a kitty sitting in the potty too long. He's never been 'blocked' . Months ago the vet let me come and get the antibiotics, several cans of C/D and the dry C/D.
Cinco just FREAKS out at the vet...they can never get a cath on him....he NEVER pees on the pad, so I HATE trying to get him in.

I did some online research on some feline forums about which food works the absolute best for cats who have re-occurring struvites, and so many people were alarmed that Wellness was the most commonly given food that resulted in the most struvite problem.

So.

Do You think a week of the wet food and C/D dry would allow the struvites to diminish, or do I try to see if the vet will give me another round of antibiotics?

Should I just go through another round of C/D, follow up with giving all the cats the Science Diet food that lowers the risk?
I have tried and tried to feed Cinco separately, and I'm just too busy and have cats that will NOT FOLLOW A EATING Code of Ethics and Rules.

Any insight would be deeply appreciated.
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Postby plebayo » May 16th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Put him on wet food and give him Vitamin C. You can't OD on vitamin C so I'd give him a tab 1-2 times a day. The vitamin c will help raise the PH and get rid of the crystals. The reason you feed wet food is to help flush them out because he'll be taking in more water, cats are notorious for not drinking enough - Less concentrated pee doesn't form crystals.

You can certainly try a week of C/D to get him started. I would then just switch him to a high quality wet food and add the Vitamin C.

You could also try giving the cat DL-Methionine which also raises the urine PH.

---------

Sidenote: I went through this with my cat, switching to wet food and vitamin c fixed the problem. My cat can't have C/D because he's allergic to everything and can only eat fish based foods. He's also a total crap head at the clinic and I have to put him in the tank at home to bring him so he can be gassed down, so I feel your pain.
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Postby BullyLady » May 16th, 2010, 9:36 pm

Suzanne, I know with dogs you have to be careful with the pH of their urine, because it being out of whack either way (too acidic or too basic) can cause UTIs. Does that not happen when you play with the urine pH in cats?
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Postby Malli » May 16th, 2010, 9:41 pm

I want to mention that blocked can literally mean UNABLE to urinate, and they can and do die from this, so if there is any way you can seperate him and give him his own litter box to make sure he is urinating, it might be in your pocket book's and his best interests...


Jody, right? I nursed quite a few of these cats when I worked at the animal Emerg so if you have any questions... I can try and answer
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Postby plebayo » May 16th, 2010, 10:15 pm

Suzanne, I know with dogs you have to be careful with the pH of their urine, because it being out of whack either way (too acidic or too basic) can cause UTIs. Does that not happen when you play with the urine pH in cats?


I can't say that it isn't possible[anything is possible!], but the issue with the formation of crystals is that the urine is not acidic enough to break them down. It's really unlikely with the use of vitamin c that you would make your cats urine so acidic that it would cause an issue. I'm not sure about the dl-methionine but if given as directed shouldn't be an issue. If the cat didn't have crystals and was suffering from constant urinary tract infections then you would be better off to either A.) do x-rays to make sure crystals haven't formed a giant stone and B.) again stick to a wet diet. Especially in male cats - because the urethra is so small I really try to push feeding canned because from the research I've done it really brings down the risks of crystal formation. Diet has a lot to do with it as well, like the ash content of the food but in my own experience with my guy just getting him onto a wet diet improved things greatly.
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Postby ArtGypsy » May 16th, 2010, 11:00 pm

Malli wrote:I want to mention that blocked can literally mean UNABLE to urinate, and they can and do die from this, so if there is any way you can seperate him and give him his own litter box to make sure he is urinating, it might be in your pocket book's and his best interests...


Jody, right? I nursed quite a few of these cats when I worked at the animal Emerg so if you have any questions... I can try and answer


Yes, It's Jody!! :wave2:
When I watch him in the box, he sits, and there's always a little pee.
The vet told me the last time that there's ever very much there 'to pee' cause he's irritated and sits til every last drop comes out.
he's never been blocked...just inflamed, I assume, because I don't let him wait til I get him in......

I've had several cats that had this issue, but most were rescue cats that eventually went to good homes.
The vet even suggested once that I may want to stop giving my cats the water from the tap, because of the mineral content... :| :| :|
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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby ArtGypsy » May 16th, 2010, 11:02 pm

plebayo wrote:Put him on wet food and give him Vitamin C. You can't OD on vitamin C so I'd give him a tab 1-2 times a day. The vitamin c will help raise the PH and get rid of the crystals. The reason you feed wet food is to help flush them out because he'll be taking in more water, cats are notorious for not drinking enough - Less concentrated pee doesn't form crystals.

You can certainly try a week of C/D to get him started. I would then just switch him to a high quality wet food and add the Vitamin C.

You could also try giving the cat DL-Methionine which also raises the urine PH.

---------

Sidenote: I went through this with my cat, switching to wet food and vitamin c fixed the problem. My cat can't have C/D because he's allergic to everything and can only eat fish based foods. He's also a total crap head at the clinic and I have to put him in the tank at home to bring him so he can be gassed down, so I feel your pain.


THANK YOU!!
So.............which Wet Food do I switch Him to after the week of C/D??

Is There really magic in the Science Diet??


I have Dar and Macy on Natural Balance Potato and Duck....
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby ArtGypsy » May 16th, 2010, 11:23 pm

Special Cat Vitamin C??
Vet?
Pet Co?
Wal Mart?

If Cinco JUST HAD opposable thumbs...........he could just eat a DAMNED ORANGE... :bs:
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby Malli » May 16th, 2010, 11:27 pm

He can become so inflamed that he is unable to pee, if he is unable to urinate it can shut down his kidneys in short order and cause other major emergency issues :neutral:

When I monitored cats like this, we were supposed to watch for larger urinations, which indicated the cat was able to (purposefully or otherwise, because he was able) fully empty his bladder. We also changed the litter box frequently(with us we did after every urination, but I'd think a couple times per day would be ok), so there wasn't any confusion as to whether or not the urine in the box was recent or not.

I'm glad I got your name right :wink:
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Postby plebayo » May 16th, 2010, 11:32 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:Special Cat Vitamin C??
Vet?
Pet Co?
Wal Mart?

If Cinco JUST HAD opposable thumbs...........he could just eat a DAMNED ORANGE... :bs:


As far as wet food anything that is a high quality brand. I want to say that fish based foods are worse for cats with crystals but don't quote me.

As far as vitamin c you can just pick up the stuff in the health section for people. I think I bought "Nature Made" like 500mg tabs? When I was giving it to my cat [he's been fine just on wet food] I think I started him on it 2x a day for like a week and then went to giving it once a day.

The science diet c/d is made for struvite crystals, it does the same thing as vitamin c - raises urine ph. The ingredients suck and IMO I think you can achieve the same results feeding the cat wet food with an acidifier [vitamin c].

Also about tap water -

I know for dogs who get calcium oxylate crystals [a totally sucky type of crystal!] they recommend bottled water as opposed to tap so it couldn't hurt but I don't think it's the be all end all for struvites.
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Postby BullyLady » May 17th, 2010, 12:30 am

Just one thing to remember. When feeding cats a diet of solely wet food there is nothing crunchy to clean their teeth, so you will have to get dentals more often. My mom has a cat with this problem (we call him her Crystal Kitty :giggle: ) and he never needed a dental until he started on c/d and now he desperately needs one after just over a year on the new diet, the vet warned her it would happen.
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Postby iluvk9 » May 17th, 2010, 5:56 am

Owning a cat is sooo much work, for such a small thing. :rolleyes2: Hope you figure it all out with everyone's suggestions.
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Postby pocketpit » May 18th, 2010, 5:53 pm

The science diet c/d is made for struvite crystals, it does the same thing as vitamin c - raises urine ph.


I think you mean "lowers the urine PH" :D Struvite crystals form in alkaline urine not acidic conditions.
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Postby plebayo » May 18th, 2010, 8:26 pm

pocketpit wrote:
The science diet c/d is made for struvite crystals, it does the same thing as vitamin c - raises urine ph.


I think you mean "lowers the urine PH" :D Struvite crystals form in alkaline urine not acidic conditions.


Wow I totally thought it raised the PH. Thanks for pointing that out!
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Postby DeeNtheChillas » May 19th, 2010, 12:19 am

Have you used the S/D to get rid of the crystals first?
Usually at our clinic we do S/D first for 4 weeks or so, until the crystals dissolve, and then go to C/D to maintain that PH level.
I am not big on the Hills foods, but this particular combination seems to work for struvites... We see a lot of these issues at the clinic. Urine issues and cats go hand in hand.

:|

Actually, Valentino just started S/D today because he has struvites. Sigh. I hate feeding any of my pets Hills products.
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