How to handle off-leash dogs?

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Postby maberi » April 16th, 2010, 8:50 pm

This discussion has come up quite a few times and I'm even a little clueless as what you could use to deter a dog after yours when you are walking/running yours. I run into one at least once a week
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Postby Pit♥bull » April 16th, 2010, 9:27 pm

.38 Special :|
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Postby maberi » April 16th, 2010, 9:34 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:.38 Special :|


Lol, that is about all I got. At this point I'm about to go to that extreme. I honestly can do anything with my dogs without an off leash dog coming after us...
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 16th, 2010, 9:34 pm

I made this its own topic.

I go for walks knowing that if an off-leash dog comes up to us, I'm putting myself in between it and Inara, even if that means I get bitten. I start off with a low, stern voice and tell it to go home, or git, while I put Inara in a sit behind me. I then lean towards the dog slightly and stare it in the eye (could backfire, but most dogs are going to back down from an aggressive person) while telling it again to go home. If it gets closer, I kick at it. I aim to miss and so far that's been enough. However, if necessary, I'll make contact. With one off-leash dog that was snarling and circling us, I ended up straddling Inara and just keeping us circling so the dog couldn't get behind us. I still kicked at it and kept it at bay until the owner pulled her head out of her ass and got her dog.

You could also carry a walking sticking. Or throw poop bags at the dog. Like Demo and Michelle said in the other thread, I don't recommend pepper spray. Doesn't affect a lot of people and won't affect a lot of dogs. And the wind has to be in your favor.
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Postby katiek0417 » April 16th, 2010, 9:36 pm

One of those boat horn things...will scare most dogs off...
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Postby maberi » April 16th, 2010, 9:41 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:You could also carry a walking sticking. Or throw poop bags at the dog. Like Demo and Michelle said in the other thread, I don't recommend pepper spray. Doesn't affect a lot of people and won't affect a lot of dogs. And the wind has to be in your favor.


So a stick or poop bag will deter a dog, but pepper spray won't?

I think the problem is if a dog is determined to attack, nothing is going to stop it (pepper spray, poop bag, boat horn, etc...) I find it hard to believe that pepper spray will not deter most dogs. Most dogs really don't want to fight.

I'm not worried about another dog hurting mine. I'm worried about my dog killing another dog that attacks it. What is the liability if you are walking your dog on leash and another dog attacks and my dog kills or seriously injures the other dog?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 16th, 2010, 9:45 pm

If your dog is on leash you are not legally liable, however, the press would still have a field day with it. And I'd rather fling a poop bag or hit a dog with a stick then have the wind blow pepper spray back in my face. I've been sprayed - wasn't horrible but not an experience I'd like to have again. :wink:

I think the moral of the story is everybody needs to figure out what works for them. As well as what's legal in their city. I think pepper spray is illegal in some places.
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Postby hugapitbull » April 16th, 2010, 9:46 pm

maberi wrote:I honestly can do anything with my dogs without an off leash dog coming after us...


That's what has kept me from trying to walk Duke in the neighborhood. I think he'd be fine, but I hate to take the chance. It is very frustrating.
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Postby maberi » April 16th, 2010, 9:48 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:If your dog is on leash you are not legally liable, however, the press would still have a field day with it. And I'd rather fling a poop bag or hit a dog with a stick then have the wind blow pepper spray back in my face. I've been sprayed - wasn't horrible but not an experience I'd like to have again. :wink:


Do cops carry different pepper spray than is available to citizens? Maybe they could just tote around sticks or poop bags... (joking of course)
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 16th, 2010, 9:50 pm

Actually, our pepper spray is better than what you civilians can get. :wink: And I always joke that I'm skipping the useless pepper spray and breaking out my gun. I trust its stopping power more.
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Postby maberi » April 16th, 2010, 9:55 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Actually, our pepper spray is better than what you civilians can get. :wink: And I always joke that I'm skipping the useless pepper spray and breaking out my gun. I trust its stopping power more.


Makes sense, it just baffles me that a smaller version of something a cop uses to deter angry drunks isn't something the everyday citizen could use to deter the every day dog that is picking a fight it can't finish.

I'm honestly at a loss for how to deal with these situations. I usually end up picking my dog up and trying to kick the dog square in the head, but that is not going to work in all situations. If it came down to it and a dog was intent on attacking, I would have to put my dog down and let them defend themself and I'm not sure that would end well.
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Postby LMM » April 16th, 2010, 10:14 pm

Or you can scream shrilly like a fish wife "COME GET YOUR GOT DAMN DOG!!!!" at 7 in the morning like I did when the asshat neighbors junkyard whatever got loose ;)

The dog cocked his head and lost all interest in Max when that decibel reached his ears.

Okay I'm kidding but this is an ongoing problem. I do like Liz, I get between the approaching dog and mine. Of course I'm usually walking with 2 or 3 so it has big nasty brawl potential :neutral:
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Postby demolitionic » April 16th, 2010, 11:13 pm

I've had to damn near choke Squish out, while keeping her head sandwiched between my knees to keep her from laying waste to a lab that that was trying to attack her when we were jogging. This was 20 feet from the "no offleash animals" sign at a local park. The owner was playing fetch with her other lab and talking on her phone and had the nerve to catch an attitude with me when I finally screamed for her to get her motherfucking dog.

Nothing deterred this damn dog, and it was either do what I did and keep trying to deflect the dog with my body, or let Squish go and face the music, which I didn't want to do. I'm seriously afraid of what it would have come to if someone else hadn't seen the situation and intervened.
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Postby Malli » April 17th, 2010, 12:20 am

As far as dogs that are determined to start sh!t vs dogs that are just oblivious I'm not certain if there is a clear cut solution, since I think the outcome depends on a number of factors (what angle of aggression the dog is taking, how determined he is, how sensitive or desensitized or socialized or unsocialized he is)

For dogs that are oblivious or are acting off I either 1)holler at the owner : "we don't do strange dogs" or 2) more often "call your dog, please!". If there is distance and an owner around I put Oscar in a sit and we sit and wait for them to notice. If I can't see an owner or I know that no one is paying attention, I use growly tones "git!" "hey!" "go on" and stomp, hard. I've also done the doggy dance and either had Oscar between my legs and just followed the offleash dog while it circled us or when the dog was a oblivious friendly idiot I just spin Oscar and shove his ass towards the other dogs head and do that (but usually here an owner is arounds shortly).

FYI here in my municipality I checked at AC and asked what the deal was with offleash dogs approaching onleash dogs and was told if a fight occured that should be fine; BUT in my boss' municipality she has told my manager that the head of AC there is an ass and it's about interpretation of the law and that you would be held responsible. So where the wording of "under adequate control" or "under control" isn't clear I'd assume the worst.

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Postby airwalk » April 17th, 2010, 10:02 am

Welll Matt, I know everyone says spray doesn't work...but all three of our Officers carry spray and like every other tool has its time a place.

A truly determined dog probably isn't going to be put off by spray..but it may slow them down. A truly determined dog isn't going to be put off by much of anything except you being able to physically control the dog.

I do recommend carrying a extra slip lead. That way if there is trouble and you can get a lead over them, you at least stand a modicum of a chance of controlling things.

Airhorns are like spray...they are another tool that work much of the time.
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Postby mnp13 » April 17th, 2010, 12:49 pm

I'm copying this from the other thread... and then I have to go clean my gutters! lol

pitbullmamaliz wrote:You could also carry a walking sticking. Or throw poop bags at the dog. Like Demo and Michelle said in the other thread, I don't recommend pepper spray. Doesn't affect a lot of people and won't affect a lot of dogs. And the wind has to be in your favor.


maberi wrote:Makes sense, it just baffles me that a smaller version of something a cop uses to deter angry drunks isn't something the everyday citizen could use to deter the every day dog that is picking a fight it can't finish.


Welll Matt, I know everyone says spray doesn't work...but all three of our Officers carry spray and like every other tool has its time a place.


Ok, here is my thing. Does pepper spray hurt? Yes, a LOT. I've only been hit with the "civilian" kind once, just a little bit of over spray (an idiot friend of mine was playing with some in college and sprayed it in the campus center :rolleyes2: ) we were all coughing and had running eyes for a good five minutes.

Here’s the problem – will it work for most dogs? Yes. absolutely - they are going to be in pain and be scared and run away. However, there is another problem in that the spray/irritant will also have the exact opposite effect in many cases.

Think about it, lot of times you hear people argue against the use of prong collars for difficult behaviors because they “increase aggression” (due to mis-timing) but the prong collar correction stops… the pain from spray does NOT. Once you have sprayed the dogs, the irritant continues, and that angry dog may very well just get angrier. Some animals will work through that pain, and unlike people, you can’t explain to them that if they just calm down you will wash their eyes out… that dog is going to want to share that pain with you.

There are animal tazer videos on YouTube, in the vast majority of them, the animals collapse and when the shock stops they run away. However, there is one where they taze a bull, and when the shock stops a VERY angry bull charges the camera. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_N2WLE1yo That bull knows the source of the pain it just felt, and it wants to return the favor... there are dogs who will want to do the same thing... and if a dog has already decided to come after your dog and you give it a face full of pain it may decide not to run off.

Bear with me through another Riggs story... sorry... :) You know those threads of pictures that I have from playing fetch with him at Lollypop Farm? The day after I brought him home, he jumped up on me and I grabbed his front foot. He made and un-holy roaring noise and launched at my face. OH. MY. I let go of his foot, told him to stand and picked up his leg and bent it backwards; it looked like raw hamburger - skidding on the wet long grass had removed all of the fur and literally peeled away all of the flesh between his foot and stop pad. He happens to be one of the dogs that I'm talking about; I am truly quite positive that if you were to deliver a face full of pepper spray to him that he would do his very best to share that discomfort as best he could. Temperament discussion aside :wink: that is why I have the position I do on this matter. I own one of the dogs I speak of. :)

The other problem with spray is over spray. When you dish out a face full of spray to that dog, it's not unlikely that you and your dog will also be affected. That is one of the reasons that cops in Demo's department are required to get sprayed in the eyes at point blank range and then have to defend their weapon - so they know what it feels like and have had to function through it. (We have it on his academy DVD, they also tear gassed them, it's unreal)

If you are relying on the spray for the “startle factor,” maybe a small air horn like what they use at soccer games? Sure, you’re going to be deaf too, but it should scare off the other dog, and you don’t have to worry about over spray or residual problems. Charles used to carry a small shovel with him to “fling poop” but it worked quite well for wacking the occasional stray dog as necessary as I recall.

Frankly, I really think the best option is this:
http://www.code3tactical.com/expandable ... 5Qodun3LOw
Image

But I don't think they are legal everywhere, and you run into the same problem as all of the above. But at least that shrinks down to fit in a pocket, its quiet, there is no over spray, but the dog has to get pretty darn close.
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Postby LMM » April 17th, 2010, 2:56 pm

I've been full on tear gassed. No fun.

I like the air horn idea with the understanding that it may not deter some dogs.
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Postby amazincc » April 17th, 2010, 3:16 pm

It's ridiculous that we have to arm ourselves when walking our dogs, while being law-abiding and keeping them on-leash. >( :nono:

I fractured a bone in my foot a few years ago when an off-leash Pit Bull charged Mick, and I tried to kick the dog... his head slammed right into my leg, and that's all it took. :shock:
We haven't encountered any free roamers in our neighborhood so far (*knocks on wood*)... most people have fenced-in yards or keep their dogs leashed. We do have a neighbor a couple of houses away who's little yappers charge my fence/yard on a regular basis... and knowing that Sepp can jump the fence I just had a gate installed on my porch so my guys can't get in the front yard by themselves anymore. :bs:
I know that at least Sepp has his eye on those "tasty snacks"... aggravating little bastids. :rolleyes2:
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Postby PetieMarie22 » April 19th, 2010, 12:02 pm

amazincc wrote:It's ridiculous that we have to arm ourselves when walking our dogs, while being law-abiding and keeping them on-leash.

AGREED! :mad2:
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Postby call2arms » April 19th, 2010, 2:46 pm

Mace hurts, a lot. I'm sure the police one is good enough... I was on site during a protest, and holy sh*t it made me want to die a little, felt like I'd just rubbed habanero seeds right in my eyes.

It's happened to us once, the owner was not facing us and was holding huge male boxer on leash while talking to his friends... Not holding very well cause when the boxer decided to come for J, he let go.

The dog came full speed at us to receive my foot in his face, followed by a rabid yell to the punka$$ owner to gome get his dog, and holding J's face up in my hands to keep her from getting the boxer. Fun times.

Luckily the way that the park is made, it's easy to see people and dogs on paths, and most people hold their dogs on leash. I tend to go to the park after 11pm anyway so there's less crazies and loose dogs. So much for sun intake...
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