Cesar Millan

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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 5th, 2006, 12:37 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/0 ... index.html

Apparently a 5 year old lab was pretty badly handled at Cesars place. I know he has done a lot for pits, but he has always mis-represented himself. He is an old fashioned choke chain trainer. Not that this is a bad thing, but it is NOT what the Horse Whisperer was about-in fact it is the opposite of that. That has always bothered me.

When he had that English Bulldog on the show, he basically choked the drive right out of the dog. NOT something I was impressed with. He knows dogs and dog behavior, but his methods are not ones I am comfortable with in many cases. I would take a dog to him, but would never leave a dog there unsupervised because of this.

We will see how this plays out.
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Postby mnp13 » May 5th, 2006, 12:42 pm

I've on ly seen the show a handful of times, but I think it is made to be more than it is. He seems to use pure dominance to keep the dogs in line. the "alpha dog" to the extreme.

I also think he is beyond irresponsible with the dogs. To go out in public with a pack of dogs is a nightmare waiting to happen. All it takes is one loose dog to start a fight and pack behavior will kick in. His may not start it, but his will finish it.
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Postby msvette2u » May 5th, 2006, 1:13 pm

I've never seen it. But from everything I've seen and heard ABOUT it I'd never watch - that'd piss the hell out of me.
If anyone is in THIS area - the Pacific NW, that is, I met a wonderful, intelligent woman who trains dogs and they got my psycho-Corey, the Border Collie that was unadoptable so we brought him to our house for EIGHT MONTHS.
After I met her, I relinquished him to her, he was still unadoptable - they had him adoptable in THREE MONTHS.
He wasn't a biter or anything, he'd been a feral and was just super fearful, his "last resort" defense was to lie immobile on the ground when afraid, which was any time you tried to walk or do anything with him ;) He sort of existed at our house, he went everywhere with us and hung tight with our Libby, but he wasn't "our" dog...Colleen and her crew got it all under control however and he became a working Border Collie!
We watched a video of a Chow chow that Colleen and her group trained, that bit anyone who tried to touch him before. Within the space of a week of them working with him he was allowing and even seeking out being petted!! And we watched the process...there was no choking out or treadmilling a dog...trying to dominate it would have ruined it I'm sure!!
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Postby msvette2u » May 5th, 2006, 1:15 pm

I should add that within the first 10 minutes after working with him she had him SITTING on command, that, from a fearful, frozen dog who would glue himself to the ground if asked to do ANYthing...it was simply amazing...
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 5th, 2006, 1:22 pm

I know there are dogs and owners out there that his approach works wonders for. But there are many others that it does not. We used to say that those rejects from obedience school were just untrainable-we now know they just need a different way.

That is very cool they were able to help that BC-my BC/lab mix was the same, it took months to get her to come out of her shell (she had 10 puppies before we could really do anything with her-she came home 2 weeks pregnant from the shelter :evil:). If you put a choke on her she would lay on the ground peeing herself. I know that because the 4-H instructors insisted on doing this when my son took her. She never went back after my son came out crying telling me what they did to her ( I was teaching the agility outside). And this was after a year of positive training-all undone in 30 minutes.

I hate once size fits all training.
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Postby mnp13 » May 5th, 2006, 1:39 pm

msvette2u wrote:I should add that within the first 10 minutes after working with him she had him SITTING on command, that, from a fearful, frozen dog who would glue himself to the ground if asked to do ANYthing...it was simply amazing...


That sounds like Chris and Megan.
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Postby msvette2u » May 5th, 2006, 2:11 pm

She's the one who taught us to turn around and ignore a dog that's jumping up on you...it WORKS too...if you're consistent with it!
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Postby pLaurent » May 5th, 2006, 2:19 pm

I have to say that for many clueless owners, Cesar Millan has a lot of good advice.

You would think people would know that dogs need exercise and walking, but a shocking number do not and lots of people are just too darn lazy.

I think he's very knowledgeable about many dog behaviors, and handles things like food aggression, bolting out the door, barking and pulling very nicely and has probably helped a lot of dogs keep their homes.

I find other things he does to be dangerous, like using that feral dog as a therapy dog in the old age home and telling that couple that their two female pit bulls could live in harmony.

I have used a couple of his methods with great success but my biggest complaint with him is that he doesn't recognize fear and fear aggression for what it is and anyone trying to follow his methods to deal with this issue on their own could end up being very sorry indeed.
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Postby mnp13 » May 5th, 2006, 2:29 pm

pLaurent wrote:I have used a couple of his methods with great success but my biggest complaint with him is that he doesn't recognize fear and fear aggression for what it is and anyone trying to follow his methods to deal with this issue on their own could end up being very sorry indeed.


anyone who is following the advice of a trainer that has never seen their dog or who has never actually spoken to that trainer for issues like fear aggression is not thinking rationally. Hands on experience is what makes a trainer a trainer...
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 5th, 2006, 2:39 pm

anyone who is following the advice of a trainer that has never seen their dog or who has never actually spoken to that trainer for issues like fear aggression is not thinking rationally. Hands on experience is what makes a trainer a trainer...


Agreed there!
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Postby babyreba » May 5th, 2006, 4:12 pm

No idea what went on with that lab, but did you notice this part of the story, at the end?

The suit is alleging, among other things, "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

So basically, she's saying that Cesar and his fellow trainers intentionally wanted to inflict emotional damage on her?

Doesn't that sound rather . . . strange? Makes me wonder what the backstory is here.
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Postby mnp13 » May 5th, 2006, 4:19 pm

babyreba wrote:The suit is alleging, among other things, "intentional infliction of emotional distress."


on the person or the dog?
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Postby babyreba » May 5th, 2006, 5:03 pm

it doesn't say which, but i would think that since dogs are property in the law's eyes, they would only be able to claim it against a person.

which makes me wonder if there's been bad blood between them in the past . . . why else would they think he intentionally tried to do something to hurt them?

it's just weird. probably strange hollywood gossip!
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Postby pLaurent » May 5th, 2006, 5:24 pm

anyone who is following the advice of a trainer that has never seen their dog or who has never actually spoken to that trainer for issues like fear aggression is not thinking rationally


I couldn't agree more! Sadly, there are many people on the net giving advice on aggression and aggression related behaviors. Unfortunately, way too many people want a "quick fix" for the simple reason that they do NOT want to spend any money on trainers or behaviorists or even on vets!
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Postby Romanwild » May 5th, 2006, 8:34 pm

I love the show. :|

But one thing I have learned about dog training and dog trainers is that there is no one right way. There is more then one way to teach a behavior or change a behavior.

I would be willing to guess that he makes mistakes with his training but over all he does more good then harm. He's far from perfect. (like the rest of us :wink: ) but I'm sure there would be more dirt on him at this point if he was really bad.

Didn't South Park have a show with him on it this week?
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Postby Miakoda » May 6th, 2006, 1:20 am

pLaurent wrote:I have to say that for many clueless owners, Cesar Millan has a lot of good advice.

You would think people would know that dogs need exercise and walking, but a shocking number do not and lots of people are just too darn lazy.

I think he's very knowledgeable about many dog behaviors, and handles things like food aggression, bolting out the door, barking and pulling very nicely and has probably helped a lot of dogs keep their homes.

I find other things he does to be dangerous, like using that feral dog as a therapy dog in the old age home and telling that couple that their two female pit bulls could live in harmony.

I have used a couple of his methods with great success but my biggest complaint with him is that he doesn't recognize fear and fear aggression for what it is and anyone trying to follow his methods to deal with this issue on their own could end up being very sorry indeed.


I agree with the part about basic adivce for newbie dog owners. Americans have a HUGE problem about humanizing their dogs & allowing them to dominate their household. And the fact that he beats it down your throat that dogs need exercise/need a job is GREAT advice & although we as knowledgable owners know this, the majority don't.
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Postby PittieLove » May 6th, 2006, 1:23 am

maybe the lab was just a wussi and couldnt handle a treadmill run (j/p).
i like watching that show, but i really dont watch things like most people do (like what actors are in it and etc)
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Postby Miakoda » May 6th, 2006, 1:23 am

Shoot...no edit.

Anyways, I also want to mention that I despise his "all dogs belong in the dog pack" mentality b/c I guarantee you, no matter how much of an alpha I am, I would have fewer dogs in my pack if I let them run loose (some of mine live for a good tussle) & God knows I believe in euthanasia but he doesn't seem to. And by turning a "blind eye", he puts dogs back into situations where they will eventually maul someone. As a very knowledgable person on another board stated, he creates very dangerous situations & even encourages them which is NOT a good thing.
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Postby PittieLove » May 6th, 2006, 1:26 am

Miakoda wrote:Shoot...no edit.

Anyways, I also want to mention that I despise his "all dogs belong in the dog pack" mentality b/c I guarantee you, no matter how much of an alpha I am, I would have fewer dogs in my pack if I let them run loose (some of mine live for a good tussle) & God knows I believe in euthanasia but he doesn't seem to. And by turning a "blind eye", he puts dogs back into situations where they will eventually maul someone. As a very knowledgable person on another board stated, he creates very dangerous situations & even encourages them which is NOT a good thing.


have u noticed that the one red pit bull isnt THAT nice?? It growls and barks, at people and what not. (witch my dog doesnt do...)
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Postby Miakoda » May 6th, 2006, 1:27 am

LMAO, 1 last time...I swear! (if I had an edit button, this wouldn't happen :wink: )

Anyways, just to let some of you know, the alpha role is HIGHLY played out in my household. As far as calm dominance is concerned, I employ that technique every day. And (here comes the lashing) the alpha roll has saved 1 dog's life in my household....you try owning a Shar Pei/Cane Corso mix & train him with positive reinforcement only. You would've euthanized him 3 years ago.

(& as far as the alpha roll thing goes, I don't roll him anymore, he will willingly roll on his back with just a look from me when his 'tude kicks in & I've had it)
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