Can Xanax have the opposite effect on a dog???

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Postby katiek0417 » February 25th, 2010, 12:32 am

Okay, so we need to find a way to keep Nemo calm. We started with a cocktail: .5 mg of Xanax, and 3 Tramadol two times a day...

That didn't work...it did nothing to keep him calm!

Then, we went to just 1 mg of xanax twice a day...again...nothing!

So, tonight we gave the first dose of 2 mg of xanax (which I would give twice a day)...he's off the chain! First he started to play a rather heated game of bowl hockey. So, Greg got his bowl out. Then, Nemo started to howl in his crate. Greg told him to be quiet. Greg let him out...he was acting more insane than he typically does... :crazy2:

Could the xanax be having an opposite effect on him? Is it possible that he's just fighting it, and that's what we're seeing?

ETA: if you look at his eyes, you can see he's smurfed up! :crazy2:

Anyone have any ideas?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Postby amazincc » February 25th, 2010, 1:12 am

katiek0417 wrote:
Could the xanax be having an opposite effect on him?


Well, that's possible w/any medication... depending on how the individual will react to it. Don't you think so?

From http://www.vetinfo.com/xanax-dogs-anxiety.html

Side Effects and Other Considerations

Xanax may have a paradoxical effect in some dogs, and cause excitement or exacerbate aggressive behaviors. Long term treatment carries a risk of physical dependence. Withdrawal symptoms include sensitivity to light, vomiting and shaking. Dogs are kept on Xanax for very short periods of time at the lowest possible dosage, to avoid physical dependency.


I would probably discontinue it and look for something else. :wink:
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Postby amazincc » February 25th, 2010, 1:41 am

Have you tried Benadryl, or Rescue Remedy? Ace?

I hope he feels better soon... he sounds like he NEEDS to be active on a normal day... lol
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Postby Suzi » February 25th, 2010, 1:59 am

From my experience,,,,any anxieity (sp/),or tranquilizers can have an opposite effect....I've seen it in dogs and horses....Check with your vet,,,maybe something else to use is in order.
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Postby Malli » February 25th, 2010, 3:30 am

I'd look into Clomicalm, its the same family as Ace but obviously different ;) I've seen some good results with it on anxious dogs before

Why does he need to be quiet? If you don't mind me prodding...
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Postby CinderDee » February 25th, 2010, 3:45 am

My sister's dog had a terrible reaction to Xanax. He was acting really crazy and it freaked her out. My friend told me they use valium rather than xanax at her hospital.

Have you tried melatonin along with something like valerian or hops? (check with the vet first re: hops, catnip & valerian) Or, maybe catnip? I used to take all of those at one time or another for my anxiety & sleep issues and some of them helped although it's a heck of a lot easier just to pop a xanax. lol

Best of luck!
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Postby katiek0417 » February 25th, 2010, 9:26 am

We've tried ace...nothing...benadryl nothing...the both the vet and the pharmacological specialist said that with things like ace and xanax not working, it's not even worth trying valerian root, melatonin, etc...she said they've seen dogs like this before, and sometimes they just have to play around to find the correct medication that will finally knock him out....We started on a lower dose of xanax, but it had no effect on him...so we worked our way up...last night was the first dose of 2 mg.

Let's put it this way...they tried to give him dormitor at the vet one day to do a procedure, and it had no effect on him...they ended up actually having to give him propofol to knock him out...and with that, when he woke up, most dogs are still a little groggy - no, he spent the day circling and jumping in the kennel run! :rolleyes2:

Here's the problem, Nemo tore his ACL...partial tear...I took him to a specialist...considered one of the top in the country - especially for working dogs (in fact, they get referrals from all over the country)...With his age, and the fact that it wasn't a full tear, we opted to try therapy. Prior to the surgery, we did remove some of the fluid to send out for a cytology, and they gave him a cortisone injection. We've been doing laser therapy for a few weeks, and we decided to put him on the treadmill for the first time. This was Tuesday. He did 3 minutes on the underwater treadmill, and came out and was fine. We even did the gait analysis on him after that, which showed he was using both back legs equally...well, later that night, he was lame on that leg... :sad2:

So, now, we're really working to keep him calm so he doesn't do further injury...but he's an idiot (even prior to this he was the highest energy dog in the house)... :doh:

The other issue is this: they have to be very careful with what they put him on because many "normal" drugs can affect his sense of smell a bit. In most dogs that wouldn't matter...in him, he's fully trained for narcotics detection (and we're going to head to NC this summer to finish MY training on him, and get us certified)...that's why they're in consultation with a pharmacological specialist, as well...they just don't want to mess with that....

I'm shooting Dr. Faith an email right now...she's going to call in a prescription of robaxin for us...and I'm going to tell her about my dumba$$...in the meantime, I'm not giving him that dosage of xanax again...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Postby Malli » February 25th, 2010, 1:34 pm

Hm, well if Ace doesn't work and Clomicalm is related to Ace...

Have you tried Oral Valium?
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Postby PoodleMaMaKat » February 25th, 2010, 7:52 pm

I am not an expert in veterinary pharmacy but I can tell you what I know.

Benadryl and Xanax (along with other benzodiazepines like Valium) are known to actually cause the opposite reaction in children and pets. They can actually make people hyperactive instead of tired. Robaxin is not known to cause this reaction in humans.

My feeling is Valium is unlikely to work given Xanax did not help. They are in the same family of medications, although some properties are slightly different, they work by the same mechanism. It may be worth a try if the Robaxin doesn't work, however my feeling is you may not have any luck.

Clomicalm and ACE are related structurally but do work in slightly different ways, although I’d have to pull out my pharmacology book to tell you the difference. It is possible that Clomicalm may work if ACE didn’t. Clomicalm is actually the least sedating of the tricyclic antidepressants. Amitriptyline is much more sedating (at least in humans) but comes with other side effects such as dry mouth and constipation. I’ve had a dog on Amitriptyline and I can tell you he was groggy.

Robaxin is used as a muscle relaxer that also causes sedation. In humans this sedation can be significant. It appears the vet is using medications that have the side effect of sedation to calm Nemo down. The good thing about Robaxin is if he has pain the Robaxin MAY be helpful, although this won’t help keep him quiet.

Just an FYI, the Robaxin (aka Methocarbamol) may change urine to a dark greenish color, so don't be alarmed if this happens!


Hope this is helpful

Kat
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Postby katiek0417 » February 25th, 2010, 8:14 pm

PoodleMaMaKat wrote:I am not an expert in veterinary pharmacy but I can tell you what I know.

Benadryl and Xanax (along with other benzodiazepines like Valium) are known to actually cause the opposite reaction in children and pets. They can actually make people hyperactive instead of tired. Robaxin is not known to cause this reaction in humans.

My feeling is Valium is unlikely to work given Xanax did not help. They are in the same family of medications, although some properties are slightly different, they work by the same mechanism. It may be worth a try if the Robaxin doesn't work, however my feeling is you may not have any luck.

Clomicalm and ACE are related structurally but do work in slightly different ways, although I’d have to pull out my pharmacology book to tell you the difference. It is possible that Clomicalm may work if ACE didn’t. Clomicalm is actually the least sedating of the tricyclic antidepressants. Amitriptyline is much more sedating (at least in humans) but comes with other side effects such as dry mouth and constipation. I’ve had a dog on Amitriptyline and I can tell you he was groggy.

Robaxin is used as a muscle relaxer that also causes sedation. In humans this sedation can be significant. It appears the vet is using medications that have the side effect of sedation to calm Nemo down. The good thing about Robaxin is if he has pain the Robaxin MAY be helpful, although this won’t help keep him quiet.

Just an FYI, the Robaxin (aka Methocarbamol) may change urine to a dark greenish color, so don't be alarmed if this happens!


Hope this is helpful

Kat


thank you! Very!

It's funny...I know exactly how these meds work in humans because I've had to take several psychopharm classes prior to getting my degree...but with him...well, Dr. Faith is beginning to think that he may not have an "off" switch...

The problem is if this gets to the point where he needs surgery, well, how are we going to keep him calm?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby PoodleMaMaKat » February 25th, 2010, 8:57 pm

I'm confident there is SOMETHING out there that will make him sleepy! Let me know if you need more ideas if these don't work. There are a few more I can think of before I'd give up, along with some behavioral approaches.

If he does have surgery the pain medicine, usually opioids should make him sleepy. The good thing is if he’s in a little bit of pain he won’t want to be super active. Although if the pain medicine is very effective and he isn't in any pain, he is more likely to want to get up and move around.

He sounds like he's being a very stubborn boy!
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Postby CinderDee » February 26th, 2010, 4:53 am

I have an idea...how about Neurontin? You can also take it with Tramadol. That may calm him down.
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Postby katiek0417 » February 26th, 2010, 11:51 am

CinderDee wrote:I have an idea...how about Neurontin? You can also take it with Tramadol. That may calm him down.



I hadn't thought about that! That definitely might be an option! thank you!

I'm wondering if I may have to just settle for him being quiet in the crate, and just deal with the fact that he is going to get excited when we're letting dogs out... :crazy2: :rolleyes2:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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