Vaccinations and how often to give them?

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Postby turtle » May 4th, 2006, 2:10 pm

The worming thread sort of got started on vaccinations and how often do you give them to a dog. I've read the newer studies that recommend a 3 year cycle for grown dogs and that certainly makes more sense to me than the yearly vaccines.

It's also been recommended to me to give separate vaccines. Such as one for distemper, then wait a month or so and give a different vaccine if needed, say for example the rabies vaccine. And not to give the combo shots, that those are too much at the same time.

I don't give the one for kennel cough since it does not do much good to protect them from it. Nor do I give the Lymes vaccine due to what I have read about it being ineffective and problems with it. What's everyone think about the parvo vaccine for adult healthy dogs?
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Postby Marinepits » May 4th, 2006, 2:14 pm

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Postby Marinepits » May 4th, 2006, 2:15 pm

From my vet's newsletter:

BVH NEWSLETTER NEW VACCINE
RECOMMENDATIONS

Preventative health practices are the
best way to ensure healthy, happy
pets. As a part of these preventative
measures, vaccination of dogs and cats
has led to a striking decrease in
infectious diseases of our pets over the
years. Up until recently, it was
believed that yearly vaccines were
needed to continue your pet’s
protection against these potentially
deadly diseases. However, new
research shows that this may no
longer be necessary. The introduction
of better vaccines and recent duration
of immunity studies suggest that
many of these core vaccines may
provide immunity that lasts well
beyond a year. The benefit of which
minimizes potential negative side
effects that can come from frequent
vaccination.

Core vaccines include Rabies and the
Distemper combination vaccine. These
vaccines are required for essentially
every animal because they protect
against such devastating, widespread
threats. But because of advancing
scientific data, it is now known that
these vaccines can be given less
frequently and still provide lasting
immunity. Non-core vaccines that
protect against kennel cough, Lyme
disease, or feline leukemia, are
vaccines given only to pets that have
an increased risk of contracting the
disease. These vaccines will continue
to be given annually, depending on
your pet’s risk of exposure, and other
important factors.

BVH will be
changing our immunization
recommendations. In most cases, we
will be recommending that the core
vaccines be given every three years,
once your pet reaches the age of 2. It
should be stressed that every pet’s
situation will be evaluated
individually. Based on age, risk of
exposure, and other important health
factors, it may be necessary to
continue annual vaccines.
In keeping with our strong
preventative health focus, we request
that you continue to schedule annual
physical examinations and disease
risk assessment.
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Postby Maryellen » May 4th, 2006, 2:18 pm

i did regular vaccines with my 3 3 years ago. now they get titers done, and if they need a booster then they get one. like rufus needed a bordatella booster as his titer was low, and since i do use kennels i got him the vaccine..
jesse will never get anything but rabies due to her immune system, per my vet, he doesnt want to do more damage with her.

sonny gets just rabies due to his kidney issues, the vet doesnt want to play with that either..
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Postby SisMorphine » May 4th, 2006, 2:18 pm

I do rabies every 3 years as the law demands.

For the DA2P vaccine I believe in doing the full puppy rounds, the next year as usual, and the year after begin titering. I also don't give the Bordatella because it only covers about half of the strains of kennel cough, and depending on th supplier, some of the Bordatella vaccines are live so the animals can actually come down with it if their immune system is compromised, just from getting the vaccine. I also don't get the Lyme vaccine because again it is unreliable, plus the lyme disease is treatable. I also would never do a DHLPP vaccine and instead would do DA2P, because the first contains the Lepto vaccine which has the highest incidence of vaccine reactions, which can show up even the 9th time the vaccine is given, even if it had never shown up before.

I wish that rabies titers were accepted by the state.
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Postby Marinepits » May 4th, 2006, 2:20 pm

gf turtle wrote:The worming thread sort of got started on vaccinations and how often do you give them to a dog. I've read the newer studies that recommend a 3 year cycle for grown dogs and that certainly makes more sense to me than the yearly vaccines.

It's also been recommended to me to give separate vaccines. Such as one for distemper, then wait a month or so and give a different vaccine if needed, say for example the rabies vaccine. And not to give the combo shots, that those are too much at the same time.

I don't give the one for kennel cough since it does not do much good to protect them from it. Nor do I give the Lymes vaccine due to what I have read about it being ineffective and problems with it. What's everyone think about the parvo vaccine for adult healthy dogs?


We separate the DHLPP vax for Katy because she tends towards reactions to the vax. She also usually gets a shot of dexamethasone before each shot -- helps stop the reactions.

We do not give the KC/bordetella vax because our dogs are never around other dogs.

We do give the Lyme vax because of where we live. Until my vet and I see proof that the vax is bad, we both would rather have the dogs get the protection from the vax.

Not too sure about the parvo vax -- isn't that one of the disease transmitted by wildlife, too?
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Postby mnp13 » May 4th, 2006, 2:25 pm

I'm going to do Titers for the next round of vaccinations.

After going through Kennel Cough with Ruby I'll do Bordetella to get a least a little protection.
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Postby turtle » May 4th, 2006, 2:32 pm

SisMorphine wrote: I also would never do a DHLPP vaccine and instead would do DA2P, because the first contains the Lepto vaccine which has the highest incidence of vaccine reactions, which can show up even the 9th time the vaccine is given, even if it had never shown up before.



Yes, that's what I had heard too. But most vaccines are the combo ones. If you want to give the distemper one alone, where do you get it?
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Postby turtle » May 4th, 2006, 3:08 pm

Here is a good article about vaccinations:

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm

The site has some other good articles too:

http://www.caberfeidh.com/HHC.htm

I'm thinking of trying the titers but do all vets do them? And how reliable are they?

I'm leaning towards doing the distemper for her this year since it's been 4 years since she had her shots at the shelter when I adopted her. I know the article says there are few cases of distemper around but I did speak to a vet tech from a local emergency vet and she told yes, she's seen local cases of distemper...
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Postby Marinepits » May 4th, 2006, 3:14 pm

gf turtle wrote:
SisMorphine wrote: I also would never do a DHLPP vaccine and instead would do DA2P, because the first contains the Lepto vaccine which has the highest incidence of vaccine reactions, which can show up even the 9th time the vaccine is given, even if it had never shown up before.



Yes, that's what I had heard too. But most vaccines are the combo ones. If you want to give the distemper one alone, where do you get it?


You can just ask for it at your vet. Most vets (that I know of) stock the DHPP vax.
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Postby SisMorphine » May 4th, 2006, 3:18 pm

Marinepits wrote:
gf turtle wrote:
SisMorphine wrote: I also would never do a DHLPP vaccine and instead would do DA2P, because the first contains the Lepto vaccine which has the highest incidence of vaccine reactions, which can show up even the 9th time the vaccine is given, even if it had never shown up before.



Yes, that's what I had heard too. But most vaccines are the combo ones. If you want to give the distemper one alone, where do you get it?


You can just ask for it at your vet. Most vets (that I know of) stock the DHPP vax.

Sometimes you can have them order it prior to your appointment, also.
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Postby Malli » May 4th, 2006, 7:47 pm

I give the traditional yearly vaccines and rabies every 3.

I don't get parvo for Oscar because it is rare in healthy adult dogs and I think he'd have to be pretty damn immune suppressed to get it.

I just gave Oscar his Bordatella, and will continue to do so every 6 months because he comes to work with me at the Animal Emerg. and Clinic and being as he is constantly fighting off some sort of skin issue I feel its safer to just prevent it then try and deal with something extra.

The benefits far outweigh the risks IMHO.

just an FYI, a dog can get Bordatella or Parvo from almost anywhere another dog has been, KK will last just a few weeks in the environment but Parvo can last up to 9 months!

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Postby Marinepits » May 5th, 2006, 8:21 am

Here's another article on vaccines:

Vaccinating Your Dog

Vaccinations are a critical component to preventive care for your dog. Thanks to the development of vaccines, dogs have been protected from numerous disease threats, including rabies, distemper, hepatitis and several others. Some of these diseases can be passed from dogs to people — so canine vaccinations have protected human health as well.

Recently, studies have shown that vaccines protect dogs for longer than previously believed. There have also been improvements in the type of vaccines produced. In addition, there is increased awareness and concern that vaccination is not as harmless a procedure as once thought. These factors have led to a growing number of veterinarians who recommend reduced frequency of vaccinations while at the same time tailoring vaccine recommendations to specific risk situations.

To assist veterinarians with making vaccine recommendations for dogs, the American Animal Hospital Association has issued a set of canine vaccine guidelines. Developed by a group of infectious disease experts, immunologists, researchers and practicing veterinarians, these guidelines were first released in 2003 and revised with new information in 2006.

One of AAHA’s key recommendations is that all dogs are different — and thus vaccine decisions should be made on an individual basis for each dog. Issues to consider include the age, breed, health status, environment, lifestyle, and travel habits of the dog. Health threats vary from city to city and even in various sections of cities. You can work with your veterinarian to tailor an immunization program that best protects your dog based on his risk and lifestyle factors.

Is vaccinating my pet a risk to his or her health?

Vaccination against disease is a medical procedure and, like all medical procedures, carries some inherent risk. As in any medical procedure or decision, the benefits must be balanced against the risks. Veterinarians recommend that no needless risks should be taken and that the best way to accomplish that is to reduce the number and frequency of administration of unnecessary vaccines.

As is the case with any medical decision, you and your veterinarian should make vaccination decisions after considering your dog’s age, lifestyle, and potential exposure to infectious diseases.

What possible risks are associated with vaccination?

Vaccine reactions, of all types, are infrequent. In general, most vaccine reactions and side effects (such as local pain and swelling) are self-limiting. Allergic reactions are less common, but if untreated can be fatal. These can occur soon after vaccination. If you see such a reaction, please contact your veterinarian as soon as possible.

In a small number of patients, vaccines can stimulate the patient's immune system against his or her own tissues, resulting in diseases that affect the blood, skin, joints or nervous system. Again, such reactions are infrequent but can be life threatening.

There is a possible complication of a tumor developing at the vaccination site in a small number of pets, most frequently cats. Please contact your veterinarian for more information.

How do I know which vaccines my pet needs?

There are two general groups of vaccines to consider: core and noncore vaccines.

Core vaccines are generally recommended for all dogs and protect against diseases that are more serious or potentially fatal. These diseases are found in all areas of North America and are more easily transmitted than noncore diseases. The AAHA guidelines define the following as core vaccines: distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus and rabies.
Noncore vaccines are those reserved for patients at specific risk for infection due to exposure or lifestyle. The AAHA guidelines classify kennel cough, Lyme disease and leptospirosis vaccines within the noncore group.

How often should my dog be vaccinated?

Make sure that your dog completes the initial series of core vaccines administered at the puppy stage, as well as booster shots at one year of age. Following these one-year boosters, the AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines recommend that the distemper, adenovirus and parvovirus core vaccines be administered once every three years. States and municipalities govern how often rabies boosters are administered. Some areas require a rabies booster be administered annually. Others require a three-year-effective rabies booster be given every three years. Still others allow either a one-year or a three-year rabies vaccine to be utilized.

Noncore vaccinations should be administered whenever the risk of the disease is significant enough to override any risk of vaccination. For example, kennel cough vaccine may need to be administered up to every six months in a dog repeatedly being kenneled or exposed to groups of dogs at grooming salons or dog shows.

There is a history of yearly vaccinations boosters, and some veterinarians do not feel it is prudent to change that recommendation just yet. However, the AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines reflect that there is growing support for extended duration of protection. Thus more veterinarians are vaccinating less frequently and more selectively.

Does this mean I only need to see my veterinarian every three years?

Regular wellness examinations — at least once or twice a year — are the most important preventive measure that you can provide for your dog. Vaccinations are just one component of the wellness visit. To help keep your dog in optimum health, regular wellness examinations are critical — regardless of how often vaccines are administered.

Remember, dogs age at a much faster rate than humans, so a once-yearly exam is similar to a human getting a physical every 5-7 years. Plus they don’t always show signs of early disease, and they can’t easily communicate discomfort to us. During the wellness exam, your veterinarian has an opportunity to detect and prevent problems at an early stage.

Can my veterinarian conduct a test to see if my dog needs to be vaccinated?

Tests that measure protective antibody levels for diseases are called titers. In recent years reliable titer tests for some diseases such as canine distemper and parvovirus have become more readily available and economical. Veterinarians may recommend using these titer tests in some cases to determine whether or not vaccinations are needed. Your veterinarian can provide you with more information on titer testing.

from: http://www.healthypet.com/library_view. ... =196&sid=1
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Postby concreterose » May 5th, 2006, 11:08 am

I got a titer test for rabies this year. Expensive, but I'd rather pay for that than the vac. Vicki was vaccinated for rabies when she was a pup (she was about four months) and at three years her antibodies to rabies were REAL high (which the vet said was awesome). This was further proof to me that I will not be vaccinating. You don't have to titer test ever year, but many people do for piece of mind. Also, the best times to test are fall and early spring...you get the most accurate readings during that time. I have an article on it, I'll have to dig through my emails and find it when I get a chance.
Antech is the company my vet uses to do the titer testing. I believe it was like $165 to get Vicki's rabies titer. I am going to work to see if I can get my township to waive the vaccination requirement with proof of rabies titers. If they won't, I just won't have licensed dogs...I've never licensed a dog anyway (I know, I'm a bad mommy and should be punished).

Here's an interesting article that my nutrition consultant for the dogs sent me...a lot of it is stuff we already know. It's long, but useful to have in your files. I gave a copy to my vet, too.

I have sent this information out in the past however it bears repeating periodically! Please for the sake of your four footed friends MAKE the time to read it through to the end!



It is widely acknowledged that vaccines can contribute to a whole range of autoimmune diseases, such as Addison's disease, Cushing's disease, thyroid disease, autoimmune haemolytic anaemia, and many others. The scientific evidence is certainly there. Dr. Larry Glickman at Purdue University has found that routinely vaccinated dogs develop autoantibodies to a wide range of their own biochemicals. Vaccines disrupt the dog’s immune system causing it to attack itself, developing autoimmune disease.



Following are a few excerpts about vaccines from enlightened vets and other professionals.



“Immune-suppressant viruses of the retrovirus and parvovirus classes have recently been implicated as causes of bone marrow failure, immune-mediated blood diseases, hematologic malignancies (lymphoma and leukemia), dysregulation of humoral and cell-mediated immunity, organ failure (liver, kidney), and autoimmune endocrine disorders especially of the thyroid gland (thyroiditis), adrenal gland (Addison's disease), and pancreas (diabetes).” Dr. Jean Dodds DVM (USA). Dr. Dodds is internationally recognized for her expertise in blood and immune disorders.



“The Merck manual tells us that vaccines can cause or exacerbate encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), epilepsy, skin disease, behaviour problems (from brain damage), and autoimmune diseases (which include Addison’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, Lupus, haemolytic anaemia, chronic active hepatitis, diabetes mellitus, Grave’s disease, Hypoparathyroidism, skin inflammations, Uveitis, and other immunologic eye diseases).”

Merck Manual is the world's most widely used general medical text. It has also been called the vet’s bible.



“There is another aspect to problems with vaccination: contrary to what you may have heard even from some of those who are calling for the discontinuation of mandatory vaccination in the United States, vaccines do not prevent diseases”, ...“It is also well-documented that the largest epidemics occurred in the most highly vaccinated populations, while whose who were unvaccinated, did not have the same epidemics”,... “There is no evidence whatsoever of the ability of vaccines to prevent any diseases. To the contrary, there is a great wealth of evidence that they cause serious side effects”. Dr. Viera Scheibner,



"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used."

Dr. James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health



“The medical authorities keep lying. Vaccination has been a disaster on the immune system. It actually causes a lot of illnesses. We are changing our genetic code through vaccination." Guylaine Lanctot M.D. Canadian author of the best-seller 'Medical Mafia'.



“Vaccination is not necessary, not useful, does not protect. There are twice as many casualties from vaccination as from AIDS”. Dr. med. Gerhard Buchwald, West Germany, specialist of internal diseases and participant in about 150 trials of vaccination victims.



“All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukaemia...Vaccines do predispose to cancer and leukaemia.” Professor L. Vincent - founder of Bioelectronics



"The vaccinations are not working, and they are dangerous.. We should be working with nature."----- Lendon H.Smith, M.D.



“When you do get to the little wrappers that come with the little bottles of vaccine and read the small print, the alarm bells start ringing.., vaccination does not guarantee immunisation.”. Senator Brown of Tasmania (ex medical practitioner).



"Homeopathic veterinarians and other holistic practitioners have maintained for some time that vaccinations do more harm than they provide benefits. Vaccinations represent a major assault on the body's immune system."Dr Charles E Loops DVM



“55% of all illnesses reported by participants occurred within the first three months of vaccination.” Arthritis - Diarrhoea - Allergies -Dry eye/conjunctivits - Epilepsy - Loss of appetite Nervous/worrying disposition - Skin problems - Nasal discharges - Vomiting - Weight loss - Behavioural problems - Tumour or growth. Catherine O’Driscoll, author of “What Vets Don’t Tell You About Vaccines”, “Who Killed the Darling Buds of May” and “Shock to the System”.



The homoeopathic veterinarian Christopher Day, on the other hand, suspected that around 80% of the diseases he treats in his surgery are vaccine related, and occur within three months of vaccination where the start date of the illness is known.



"Dogs contracting the diseases they were vaccinated against: Hepatitis - 63.6% occurred within three months of vaccination Parainfluenza - 50% occurred within three months of vaccination Parvovirus - 68.2% occurred within three months of vaccination Distemper - 55.6% occurred within three months of vaccination Leptospirosis - 100% of dogs contracted leptospirosis within three months of vaccination



If after knowing that some of the health hazards from vaccinations include, allergies, arthritis, asthma, cancer, cataracts, cerebral palsy, chronic ear infections, conception rate lowered, encephalitis, epilepsy, fibrosarcoma at the vaccination site, hyperactivity, hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, interdigital pyoderma, juvenile type diabetes, learning disabilities, leukemia, lupus, meningitis, multiple sclerosis, tuberculosis, damage to and/or failure of heart, kidneys, liver, pancreas and other organs of the body, and ALL of the diseases for which your animal or child were vaccinated, are you still willing to take that risk of vaccinating? If so, WHY? There is no proof that vaccinations work at all. Pat McKay



"Immune-mediated hematological disease and transient bone marrow failure are increasingly recognized sequelae of...vaccination. ... Postvacinal polyneuropathy is a recognized entity associated with...vaccines. ...Adverse reactions to vaccination have also recently been reported with increasing frequency in cats." (Dr. Jean Dodds DVM, 1990)



Ronald Schultz, of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, Center for Veterinary Medicine has done some duration studies that show that, for greater than 90% of dogs, a single DHPP vaccination provides immunity for *at least* 7 years, and probably for life. There is an article by him in .pdf format that you can download from http://www.noofies-zoo.com/schultzvaccinations.pdf Dr. Schultz is the author of this paragraph in Kirk's "Current Veterinary Therapy XI", the conventional medicine textbook: “A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification is annual revaccinations. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual revaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal. Successful vaccination to most bacterial pathogens produces an immunologic memory that remains for years, allowing an animal to develop a protective anamnestic (secondary) response when exposed to virulent organisms. Only the immune response to toxins requires boosters (e.g. tetanus toxin booster, in humans, is recommended once every 7-10 years), and no toxin vaccines are currently used for dogs and cats. Furthermore, revaccination with most viral vaccines fails to stimulate an anamnestic (secondary) response as a result of interference by existing antibody (similar to maternal antibody interference). The practice of annual vaccination in our opinion should be considered of questionable efficacy unless it is used as a mechanism to provide an annual physical examination or is required by law” (i.e., certain states require annual revaccination for rabies).



Vaccines are acknowledged to cause inflammation of the brain and, in severe cases, lesions in the brain and throughout the central nervous system. This condition, known as encephalitis, lies at the root of much aggressive and violent behaviour, autism, epilepsy, attention deficit disorder, and other neurological conditions (for example, CDRM, Ataxia, etc). Catherine O’Driscoll.



If you do not wish to vaccinate your pet with vaccines required by law you can get a waiver from your veterinarian. If your dog has had problems with vaccinations in the past, you can BY LAW be waived from the vaccination program. Here's the quote:

(1) The owner or person having the care and custody of an animal that is in or has a physical condition that precludes the safe immunization or reimmunization of the animal against rabies is exempt from the requirement of this Regulation where,



(a) a statement of exemption is issued by a veterinarian with respect to the animal that sets out the reason why the animal cannot be immunized or reimmunized; and



(b) the animal is controlled in such a manner as to preclude its being exposed to rabies. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 567, s. 8 (1).



You will find this here: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900567_e.htm



These waivers are supposed to be accepted at obedience/agility classes and at the border. If you are traveling call ahead to confirm this.



This particular copy applies to Ontario but it is my understanding that all provinces/states have made similar allowances to protect themselves from being sued should a dog have a fatal reaction to a vaccine due to being forced by law to have that vaccine. By having made these allowances they protect themselves by putting the responsibility on the owner to know this law and to use correct judgement in the administration of vaccines and the animals overall state of health. Many people don’t even know that these exemption allowances exist.



You can also ask a holistic/homeopathic vet to sign a note like this for your dog:



To Whom It May Concern:



This (state breed) named _____________ has had all the vaccinations that I deem appropriate for the species.

(signed - vet)



Make copies

If you require more info please contact me though my website at: http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/healthycanine
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Postby katiek0417 » May 5th, 2006, 7:00 pm

I will get both my dogs vaccinated for everything. First, they are both breeding bitches.

Second, they are always in the woods to track, with different dogs at training...etc. I spoke it over with my vet, and I'd feel much better knowing they weren't at risk (and because I will have puppies in my house, I don't want them to "carry" anything).

Finally, and I understand people's concern about the lepto vaccine, but it's not as bad as lepto, itself. Sacha had lepto last year. Several dogs I trained with had it. We're talking about 90-lb shepherds getting down to 70 lbs...5 weeks of antibiotics...bloody stool and vomit...lethargic. I was giving sub-cu fluids at my house. Granted, the strain they had was one not covered by the vaccine (the vaccine only covers 5 or 6 of the 19 or 20 strains), but the strain they had wasn't as bad as the ones that are covered...
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Postby pLaurent » May 5th, 2006, 9:37 pm

I got Chloe all necessary vax and boosters after I got her. Now she gets a rabies vax once every 3 years and that's it.

This is just my opinion, but I think annual vaccinations for pets is mainly a HUGE source of revenue for vets.

I don't get vaccinated every year, and don't see why animals should.
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Postby kera09 » July 8th, 2009, 9:22 pm

we ONLY give rabies shots every 3 yrs. we got duge as a pup and got him all of his puppy shots! lulu and ava came to us upd on everything. it actually is time to give duge his rabies, which i dont want to but will. ive explained to the vet why i dont want to give them everything and i think it makes him mad. oh well! lol
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Postby turtle » March 13th, 2010, 11:56 pm

Here is a web site I just found with a lot of interesting articles about vaccinations and other pet health issues --

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/

There is also info about pets getting cancer at the site when they get the shot, which makes a lot to consider.
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Postby amazincc » March 14th, 2010, 11:03 am

Mine had all their puppy shots... now it's only the mandatory rabies for them.
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