American Temperment Test www.atts.org

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Postby Pitcrew » May 21st, 2006, 2:44 pm

Although its not on the ATTS website yet... we will be having a temperament test at the bullympics.

So get those bullies ready!
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
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Postby mnp13 » June 16th, 2006, 4:22 pm

ugh...

I finally got my TT certificate for Riggs, and they spelled his name wrong.
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Postby Pitcrew » June 16th, 2006, 7:11 pm

Gee...

Dont they copy his name right off the entry?

Are you sure YOU spelled it right? :wink:

I did call them (atts) after I talked to you though... about the bullfest... and she still hasnt called me yet. :x
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
But, Performance indicates what the animal actually is."
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Postby mnp13 » June 16th, 2006, 10:35 pm

I checked the entry, as they include it with the certificate. I spelled it correctly and neatly. The certificate says "Punchlines Leathatl Weapon"

They did the same thing with Connor's and they sent a new one.

I just hope the new one doesn't take 3 months....
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Postby peonns » April 5th, 2007, 8:44 pm

Man I dont think Nemo would pass this test if there is gun shots.As soon as she hears a gun she would be going nuts looking for the birdy!!!She is my grouse dog and She is unreal at it half the time I'm sure she could get them with out me shooting :)
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Postby Attila Magyar » September 28th, 2007, 1:14 pm

On April 05 2007, peonns wrote:Man I dont think Nemo would pass this test if there is gun shots.As soon as she hears a gun she would be going nuts looking for the birdy!!!She is my grouse dog and She is unreal at it half the time I'm sure she could get them with out me shooting :)


That is awesome. Thanks for posting that. I am glad I am not the only one to use APBT for retrieving game.

However I think I would fail the test to because I tend to drop and take cover if I am not the one doing the shooting.
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Postby cheekymunkee » September 29th, 2007, 1:40 pm

As do we all AM. :wink:
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 4th, 2008, 3:22 pm

Since I'm thinking about doing the test in April...I've been looking over the site.

The site says that you must have a slip collar and 6 foot lead.

My guys have never been in a slip collar...they wear flat collars or harnesses...and I'm not sure if they'd be worse if the collar tightened up on them if something happened. Sawyer tends to gag and hack for about 30-60 minutes afterwards if his flat collar pushes on his throat too hard.

I occasionally have them in a martingale...that's the most tightening they've experienced. Is that acceptable for the test, or does it have to be an actual slip collar?

I'd have to borrow one anyways...I don't have one anymore. ;)
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Postby katiek0417 » January 4th, 2008, 3:38 pm

On January 04 2008, 2:22 PM, TheRedQueen wrote:Since I'm thinking about doing the test in April...I've been looking over the site.

The site says that you must have a slip collar and 6 foot lead.

My guys have never been in a slip collar...they wear flat collars or harnesses...and I'm not sure if they'd be worse if the collar tightened up on them if something happened. Sawyer tends to gag and hack for about 30-60 minutes afterwards if his flat collar pushes on his throat too hard.

I occasionally have them in a martingale...that's the most tightening they've experienced. Is that acceptable for the test, or does it have to be an actual slip collar?

I'd have to borrow one anyways...I don't have one anymore. ;)


Is there any way you can make Sawyer collar wise to the slip collar? For exmaple, can you use it ONLY when you train with him so he thinks he's at training?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 4th, 2008, 6:45 pm

I'm sure a martingale would be acceptable, probably not the flat collar. I believe they desire a slip collar so that the dog can't get out of the collar during the aggressive stranger tests and actually attack. At least that's what my crazy chief tester said.
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Postby ellie@ny » January 4th, 2008, 10:38 pm

You have to have a slip collar on the dog.
If you start walk-training your dog a couple of times in it,I'm sure he'll be just fine.
You have to hold the end of the leash at the test,it has to be loose.
And you also can't talk to your dog.
Good luck! :)
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Postby furever_pit » June 5th, 2008, 9:32 pm

Could you use the ATTS to kinda get a sense of whether or not your dog would be good at protection sports? If so, how?
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 11th, 2010, 9:29 pm

[quote="Pitcrew]
Temperament in my opinion, is the combination of what you are born with AND life experience. Not one or the other.
It is NOT just "how you raise them"... or "breeding"... it is both.

There is a TT in Port Byron NY next saturday and I know a few pits will be there. Hope to see more.[/quote]

This is true, I am working towards Senior Tester status now. I've seen dogs with titles up the wazoo flunk b/c they can't recover from something shocking, and i"ve seen unruly or 'dangerous dogs' pass b/c they slobber the people and are pretty bomb proof. A TT title is not CGC. We have to take into consideration a dogs breed as some are expected to act differently. I.E. a GSD that has had defensive training should react in a self preservation way to the gun shots or the weird person. A labrador should want to slobber anyone, maybe play with the stick they are waving! As should the pit bulls. We take training history and breed both into consideration. I've even seen a little terrier run over toward the gun shot person wagging its tail like, 'did you do that?' And some dogs just don't relax afterwards and can't shake it. Some dogs, just won't, I repeat will not, walk on the funny surfaces. I only happen to train for these things b/c we compete or work for therapy or service dog, so they can't be afraid of unsteady surfaces, but some people don't. Even some of the fun, obstacle courses I've done in the past have tarps to walk on, or agility equipment.

Genetics, Socialization and experience are all very important. Its not an obedience test, its a temperament test. How fast does your dog recover, and how curious are they on their own? Without your coaxing, leadership, etc.

We are pushing to have an ATTS in Portland Maine, in May. Please follow FinishForwardDogs.com to see when it is finalized. We will have limited spots, but we are not a breed club so all is welcome. We are simply trying to encourage folks with bullies and the likes to show off and prove BSL wrong!

Thanks
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Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 11th, 2010, 9:30 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Since I'm thinking about doing the test in April...I've been looking over the site.

The site says that you must have a slip collar and 6 foot lead.

My guys have never been in a slip collar...they wear flat collars or harnesses...and I'm not sure if they'd be worse if the collar tightened up on them if something happened. Sawyer tends to gag and hack for about 30-60 minutes afterwards if his flat collar pushes on his throat too hard.

I occasionally have them in a martingale...that's the most tightening they've experienced. Is that acceptable for the test, or does it have to be an actual slip collar?

I'd have to borrow one anyways...I don't have one anymore. ;)


We simply don't want dogs to back slip and bolt, it has happened before, and our tests are in teh middle of the woods no where, not in a building.
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 11th, 2010, 11:36 pm

dlynne1123 wrote:
TheRedQueen wrote:Since I'm thinking about doing the test in April...I've been looking over the site.

The site says that you must have a slip collar and 6 foot lead.

My guys have never been in a slip collar...they wear flat collars or harnesses...and I'm not sure if they'd be worse if the collar tightened up on them if something happened. Sawyer tends to gag and hack for about 30-60 minutes afterwards if his flat collar pushes on his throat too hard.

I occasionally have them in a martingale...that's the most tightening they've experienced. Is that acceptable for the test, or does it have to be an actual slip collar?

I'd have to borrow one anyways...I don't have one anymore. ;)


We simply don't want dogs to back slip and bolt, it has happened before, and our tests are in teh middle of the woods no where, not in a building.


But why not a well-fitted martingale?

Just curious...

And if someone can't use a 6' lead, like John...would he still have to use one? Sawyer tends to tangle a longer leash in the scooter if he walks around behind it...
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 12th, 2010, 10:45 am

I think martingales were allowed at the last course. Just not flats. And they feel the dogs need 6 feet to be able to display things like fear, insecurity, etc. It makes it easier for us to see too. We aren't right there for the most part and in a life like situation we may not be able to see the dog from the other side, hiding behind the person. We need to evaluate lip licking, shaking, avoidance, if the dog is watching the owner, etc. If a growl comes out, and we can't see or hear it, we could grade inappropriately. (Not implying that this dog will growl, but it is really kinda hard to completely evaluate a dog in this setting)

Tests are confidential so I'll share how my dog did. My dog has done CGCs before, we have had her around umbrellas, noises, gun fire(used to apprentice for people that trained police dogs) and I felt my dogs were pretty exposed. Tarps, grated footing, fire escapes, etc. Elevators, automatic doors.

However, at the test, when my dog saw that umbrella pop! It really startled her. She wasn't watching it, she was checking out the scenery when it popped. She almost didnt' pass because it took her 30 seconds to finally check out the umbrella on her own. A shorter leash may have expedited this because she would have to be closer to me, maybe being interpreted as coaxing, which is a slight deduction. Then when coming back through the testing trail, she did a half circle, around the chair where the person was sitting with the umbrella, we obviously needed to work on that in the future! Some dogs may be so startled they may knock the person over! Or show aggression. The only really bad thing is UNPROVOKED aggression, we do expect some dogs to be growly or surprised and bark or lunge for the suspicious person, but unprovoked is automatic fail. As is failing to recover or perform a task (i.e. walking on the weird surfaces or explore a scary noise.)

Hope this helps.
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby katiek0417 » February 12th, 2010, 10:56 am

dlynne1123 wrote:I think martingales were allowed at the last course. Just not flats. And they feel the dogs need 6 feet to be able to display things like fear, insecurity, etc. It makes it easier for us to see too. We aren't right there for the most part and in a life like situation we may not be able to see the dog from the other side, hiding behind the person. We need to evaluate lip licking, shaking, avoidance, if the dog is watching the owner, etc. If a growl comes out, and we can't see or hear it, we could grade inappropriately. (Not implying that this dog will growl, but it is really kinda hard to completely evaluate a dog in this setting)

Tests are confidential so I'll share how my dog did. My dog has done CGCs before, we have had her around umbrellas, noises, gun fire(used to apprentice for people that trained police dogs) and I felt my dogs were pretty exposed. Tarps, grated footing, fire escapes, etc. Elevators, automatic doors.

However, at the test, when my dog saw that umbrella pop! It really startled her. She wasn't watching it, she was checking out the scenery when it popped. She almost didnt' pass because it took her 30 seconds to finally check out the umbrella on her own. A shorter leash may have expedited this because she would have to be closer to me, maybe being interpreted as coaxing, which is a slight deduction. Then when coming back through the testing trail, she did a half circle, around the chair where the person was sitting with the umbrella, we obviously needed to work on that in the future! Some dogs may be so startled they may knock the person over! Or show aggression. The only really bad thing is UNPROVOKED aggression, we do expect some dogs to be growly or surprised and bark or lunge for the suspicious person, but unprovoked is automatic fail. As is failing to recover or perform a task (i.e. walking on the weird surfaces or explore a scary noise.)

Hope this helps.


Now, here's a couple of questions...not sure if you can answer them or not...

Cy naturally attention heels with me...I don't have to give a command...he just does it on his own (even when I try to get not to)...is that bad? I'm sure it's b/c I hammered it into him (and he knows that heeling with me is "safe."

The other thing is that he is protection trained...I know he probably wouldn't, but for the gunfire, if he lunges and barks aggressively, will he fail (again, I don't think he would b/c his heel has been so ingrained and he never breaks at a trial when he's OFF-leash)? Will he fail if he doesn't lunge and bark (he'll probably look in that direction, but not break because of the above stated reason)

Let's say it were Nisha (who is also protection trained, but doesn't have the obedience that Cy does)...if she lunges and barks, am I allowed to give her a command to make her stop (like quiet or down to cap her)? Or is she just expected to stop on her own?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby dlynne1123 » February 12th, 2010, 11:37 am

NO, you cannot correct your dogs. And no, it is allowed to act defensively considering they are protection trained. Even some breeds are more predisposed than others. A mastiff or a rotti, who should be more suspicious may show a growl or barking, and its higher points b/c its what the breed was supposed to do. If a lab is sketchy and nervous and shows this its average points, b/c we expect some of it. However if any of these dogs act this way with the friendly stranger, its fail. Its unprovoked. We've even seen dogs, happy to see the weird stranger, and if they are overly exuberant, its less points than if they are weary. Its hard to explain but if you let the judges know they have been trained to do this, its ok.


As for the heel, thats great, but no talking to the dog. So you can't correct if you dog is clinging to you or pulling on the leash. You are only the holder of the leash. We are all about the dog, not the owners in this test! We, as testers and volunteers know dogs are allowed to be jumpy, exuberant, happy, and not all will have manners. Its ok though! We like to see goofy, happy dogs for intros and we can appreciate trained dogs doing what they were trained or bred to do in times of threat or gunfire! (the shooter and weird strangers should be far enough away there is no risk of the dogs gettign to the volunteers)
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
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Postby katiek0417 » February 12th, 2010, 11:48 am

dlynne1123 wrote:NO, you cannot correct your dogs. And no, it is allowed to act defensively considering they are protection trained. Even some breeds are more predisposed than others. A mastiff or a rotti, who should be more suspicious may show a growl or barking, and its higher points b/c its what the breed was supposed to do. If a lab is sketchy and nervous and shows this its average points, b/c we expect some of it. However if any of these dogs act this way with the friendly stranger, its fail. Its unprovoked. We've even seen dogs, happy to see the weird stranger, and if they are overly exuberant, its less points than if they are weary. Its hard to explain but if you let the judges know they have been trained to do this, its ok.


As for the heel, thats great, but no talking to the dog. So you can't correct if you dog is clinging to you or pulling on the leash. You are only the holder of the leash. We are all about the dog, not the owners in this test! We, as testers and volunteers know dogs are allowed to be jumpy, exuberant, happy, and not all will have manners. Its ok though! We like to see goofy, happy dogs for intros and we can appreciate trained dogs doing what they were trained or bred to do in times of threat or gunfire! (the shooter and weird strangers should be far enough away there is no risk of the dogs gettign to the volunteers)


Okay, cool...so it sounds like Cy would be fine with what he does...like I said...he heels naturally now...I don't even have to have a leash or give a command...he just does it...

Thank you for the info!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 12th, 2010, 11:50 am

I just wondered about the equipment and if they'd make exceptions for someone with a disability for some reason...just like you'd accept that the dog was protection trained, so okay it'll behave a certain way. John has to use a scooter...and I'd have him test Sawyer, as that's HIS dog. But honestly, he uses a short leash because anything else wraps around the back of the scooter...and John cannot PHYSICALLY get the leash untangled...and will get annoyed if he can't get Sawyer loose (which would completely change Sawyer's behavior...lol)

Just picking your brain! 8)

(FYI...for normal use, he uses a short leash, and if Sawyer needs to move out away from him, he takes the leash off the arm of the scooter and lets Sawyer go with the leash draped on his back...essentially "off-leash).
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