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Postby airwalk » February 9th, 2010, 11:50 pm

I know you can't be definitive because you can't see Doogie, but I'm looking for some coaching from your experience.

Before the recent incident with Doogie, bear with me I'm going to ramble a bit...he side tracked a bit when he walked and his rear hips waggled rather than rocked...but he had no trouble walking and his feet tracked straight.

Since the hip issue and his rear hip was out (well out is subjective with his hips) and was put back...sort of...his hip appears to have a dent in it. He has been walking pretty good, but tonight he's back to toe touching and pulling that leg under when he walks. My assumption is that hip is probably "out" again.

Does it hurt the long term prognosis to not have it put "in" each time...the Vet indicated he hoped to wait until he was a bit older and his joints more mature. What happens if it remains "out"...if I keep getting it put "in" what do I do to keep it "in" short of doping him up and not letting him move?

This is a new one on me and I'm not sure when to go to the vet and when to watch for a few days and when to just manage it until he's a bit older.

In your experience, severe hip dysplasia..and I truly mean there really is no in to be out of...it's an extremely shallow socket and no real ball just a knob on top of the bone...how does this play out.
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Postby BullyLady » February 10th, 2010, 12:26 am

I'm no vet, but I have seen x-rays of older dogs with similar issues to Doogie, and what happens is that the ball of the femur remains out and so, in the position that it's "out", it sort of digs a groove in the pelvis where it's sitting. Kind of "makes" it's own acetabulum. :(
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Postby Malli » February 10th, 2010, 3:42 am

Oscar has mild and moderate HD and I notice the extreme hooker walk and often that his feet will point off in one direction or another, just thought I'd mention that. :|

I'm not really sure about the hip questions, but I'm sure Dr.Blabs will know ;)
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Postby airwalk » February 10th, 2010, 10:47 am

the extreme hooker walk
:D excellent description of the waggle :D
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Postby Malli » February 10th, 2010, 1:40 pm

:lol3: one of the techs at my old job taught me that.
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Postby blabsforbullies » February 10th, 2010, 3:24 pm

Hhhmmm...

I have never had a case of dysplasia that I have reduced the hip back into position (by reduced, I mean put back in :wink: ). The reason being is that it is not going to stay that way. :( If the joint is that shallow that it can easily slip in and out of position, short of placing the leg in a complicated and probably futile sling, it isn't likely to stay. When I reduce hips that have been displaced due to trauma, a very high percentage of them pop back out also (and some of those dogs have really nice, good hip joints >( ). So, to answer your question, I think putting it back "in", so to speak, isn't likely to have a favorable outcome in the sense that it more than likely will not stay there for any measurable length of time. :neutral:

Having said that, depending on where the ball of the femur is "resting" outside the joint, it may or may not be an issue. Sometimes, it rests against another bone, as BullyLady suggested, and that can be quite painful. Sometimes, however, it may rest against muscles. I think regardless of the position, having the joint displaced it going to cause some discomfort and possibly cause more damage to the joint capsule and surrounding tissues. If this is happening more than it isn't, then the surgery may have to be bumped up in the time table, unfortunately. :sad2:

I know that hooker walk all to well (I love that, by the way :backRoll: ). I always tell my clients that the time to intervene with surgery is when the pain/discomfort cannot be medically managed. That is going to be different for each dog (I have had patients that literally have NO joint and walk around pain free, and others that show mild changes on xray and are excruciatingly painful).

I'm not sure if I answered your questions well enough? :confused: Please tell me if I need to clarify. I am a bit tired :zzzz: (was out until 12 am looking for a lost dog before our storm hit...no luck :shake: ), so I may be rambling myself!

Big hugs to you and to Doogie :hug3: and please let me know if I really missed the mark with your questions. :doh:
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Postby airwalk » February 10th, 2010, 8:10 pm

You didn't miss the mark and we did go back to the vet today because Doogie is clearly uncomfortable. He is having trouble even laying down comfortably without a huge fluffy pillow.

So the outcome today is he is on pain meds twice daily until we can schedule him for surgery on that hip. I don't have all the technical names, but we will need to schedule him for (I think) excision on at least the one hip giving him the most trouble. I'm currently waiting for the estimate so I can see just how big of a heart attack I need to have.

Hopefully the other hip will hold for a bit (the savings account will need to replenish).

They did offer triple pelvic osteotomy (I think) and while I know the surgeon in our area that is aces at that surgery...his price tag is also aces. Doogie isn't an athlete I'm trying to get back in to competition shape...but he does need to be pain free and have the ability to walk.

So...he has meds until we can move forward with the surgery.

Since I have done ACL recovery on a 120lb Mastiff a few years back and numerous recoveries for shelter dogs I'm not worried about the recovery...but the surgery is always a worry.

Thanks for the help and I'm sure I will have a ton more questions.
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Postby madremissy » February 10th, 2010, 9:07 pm

Good thoughts for a pain free Doogie.
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Postby airwalk » February 10th, 2010, 10:21 pm

Thanks Missy. It's probably more painful for me to watch him trying to be a puppy with his discomfort. The rymadyl helped today and he is much more comforable now.
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Postby furever_pit » February 10th, 2010, 11:07 pm

aww poor Doogie.
Sending good thoughts to y'all.
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Postby Malli » February 11th, 2010, 3:31 am

my understanding with a femoral head excision (which I believe is the option you are looking at) is that as apposed to rest, some restricted exercise is best, so at least he won't go completely stir-crazy, I think!
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Postby Suzi » February 11th, 2010, 9:55 am

airwalk wrote: He is having trouble even laying down comfortably without a huge fluffy pillow.


The "Big fluffy pillow" thing bothers me. The reason being,,,when my back or hips act up, fluffy/soft is really hard on me, it gives to easily, and offers no support when I try to get up or even roll over. I need something with give, but it has to be firm (if that makes sense) I need support for my old bones..Just some food for thought....Maybe the same applies to our dogs that hurt? :|

Hope Doogie has a feeling good day today.
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Postby Suzi » February 11th, 2010, 10:25 am

Whoops! :oops:
Maybe I read that wrong...I saw "with" instead of "without"......
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Postby airwalk » February 11th, 2010, 12:45 pm

He can't get comfortable on hard surfaces, so he seeks out the fluff to lay on. Now the fun begins, he has his pain meds on board so now he feels terrific and wants to act like a puppy (go figure). I guess mean Mommy has to come to play for a while. :D you know the one that won't let him rough house, run, jump and generally act like an idiot.
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Postby Jenn » February 11th, 2010, 1:26 pm

:hug3: Good thoughts for both of you!
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Postby Suzi » February 11th, 2010, 1:51 pm

Sometimes,,,,Costco carries "orthopedic" beds. Or if you know someone who works at a hospital,,,they may be able to get you one of thos "lumpy bumpy" mattress covers they use....

Poor Doogie,,,,poor you,,,it must be frustrating seeing/knowing he hurts.
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Postby blabsforbullies » February 11th, 2010, 8:23 pm

I'm here if you need anything :wave2: , even just to vent! :hug3:
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Postby airwalk » February 12th, 2010, 12:54 am

blabsforbullies wrote:I'm here if you need anything :wave2: , even just to vent! :hug3:


Thank you, it's always nice to have someone that explains things in plain english.
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