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Postby furever_pit » January 14th, 2010, 9:39 pm

Ok, not really....but sometimes he makes me mad enough to threaten it.

It has been almost 2 years that Dylan has shown NO inclination to run off. Until tonight...loser.
I had him out back playing with a soccer ball (my yard is not fenced) and Dylan was dragging a 10 foot lead. He was acting like he always does when we play together, very excited but also following the OB commands I was throwing into the mix.

And then....BAM he grew a wild hair and off he went. He went tearing around the house and was gone. When I came out front I saw my neighbors out with their two dogs (*phew* That could have been baaaad.) and they told me where Dylan had gone. Anyway, I was walking around outside calling Dylan over and over trying to stay calm and not freak out. But finally, THANK GOD!!!, I saw my neighbor walking Dylan (who is now pulling to get to me :rolleyes2: ) toward me.

So what do I do? Dylan knows his recall and performs it well, until tonight. The only thing that has occurred to me is that maybe I need to work on Dylan's recall when he is not already in OB mode. I have done work with him on a long line with a prong and also treats for rewards. We started with a foundation of close recalls and then increased the distance. He has done recalls with just a prong and a tab on and does them often. I am definitely considering introducing the e-collar at this point (obviously under the guidance of our trainer). I am also thinking about deliberately setting Dylan up for failure once he is ready for it.

What are y'all's thoughts? Other methods I could try that I may have just missed somehow?
Thanks. And sorry for the novel.
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Postby furever_pit » January 14th, 2010, 11:34 pm

http://www.loucastle.com/recall.htm

Thoughts on this method?
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Postby TinaMartin » January 15th, 2010, 1:39 pm

I use a long line with Gator outside. My yard is not fenced either. Gator has 50 feet total. I would recommend that with the fact that he is dog reactive that you not rely on his recall. :| Mistakes can always happen. I'm glad that it turned out ok and he is home safe.
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Postby mnp13 » January 15th, 2010, 1:45 pm

I hate escape training - and in my opinion that is what that method is.

It's the confusion factor, you'll be corrected until you guess how to make it stop. The dog isn't learning "come" it's learning "don't go away" and I don't think that's the same thing.
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Postby madremissy » January 15th, 2010, 2:16 pm

I use a 50 ft lead for Kinzyl also. I can't trust her at all without it. :nono: When we train. I just make sure that it is hooked to me somewhere. When we go to the field and she runs with it she has plenty of length to get her zoomies out. :)
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Postby furever_pit » January 15th, 2010, 2:27 pm

I don't like 50 foot leads. I have a 10, a 15, and a 30. I am not good enough at handling the longer leads and I have seen one dog break its leg that way so I don't want to do that to my sport dog.

Also, I think that keeping a long lead on and holding it is just a way of avoiding the problem. This is something I want to actively work on with him. I know it sounds like I am just downing on everyone's ideas but I really do want to train him for this.

Michelle, I understand your point on the e-collar thing that I posted. I feel that Dylan is a little different because he has had a long foundation on the recall and he does already know what the command means. Doesn't that mean that I can just use the e-collar to proof the command? Or how would you recommend an e-collar be used?
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Postby maberi » January 15th, 2010, 2:39 pm

Don't you just love it when you think you have something 100% and thoroughly proofed and it all goes out the window? :wink: God only knows what happened that night but if Dylan heard or smelled something and his hunt drive kicked in, that recall is generally going to go right out the window if you haven't proofed that situation before.

There are a couple different ways to teach an emergency recall but I agree with Michelle; I'm definitely not a huge fan of escape training with an e-collar. Leslie Nelson has a good book on creating a reliable recall in all situations, but if you plan on going the e-collar route I'm sure your trainer can assist you.
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Postby furever_pit » January 15th, 2010, 2:45 pm

Yes, Maberi! So frustrating! And you know it was like uber-self-rewarding for Dylan.
Do you know the title of Leslie Nelson's book? I am at work right now and need to get off here before the boss shows up again. lol
And would you mind explaining to me some of the other ways to teach an emergency recall?

And yes, if I go the e-collar route it will be hand-in-hand with my trainer cause I don't want to just zap the crap out of my dog.
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Postby maberi » January 15th, 2010, 2:59 pm

The DVD is called aptly titled Really Reliable Recall (there is a booklet as well)

It's a program designed to teach a recall and an emergency recall (many people think this should be all in one, I'm not so sure I agree). The program basically turns recalls into a game where the dog gets rewarded for coming to you and then gets sent out to go after whatever it was called off of. Most of the training is done on leash or a long line.

Whatever you choose, you HAVE to expose and condition that recall in all different situations for it to be completely reliable. I don't care if you use an e-collar built for a bull or a favorite ball and a release back towards the distraction; unless it is something you have put time into working on, you can't expect a dog to respond in extremely distracting and stimulating situations.

furever_pit wrote:Yes, Maberi! So frustrating! And you know it was like uber-self-rewarding for Dylan.
Do you know the title of Leslie Nelson's book? I am at work right now and need to get off here before the boss shows up again. lol
And would you mind explaining to me some of the other ways to teach an emergency recall?

And yes, if I go the e-collar route it will be hand-in-hand with my trainer cause I don't want to just zap the crap out of my dog.
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Postby plebayo » January 15th, 2010, 4:25 pm

Maberi hit the nail on the head - I wrote this before I read the post, it pretty much follows the same thing I guess.

In horses we try teaching them the "Whoah" command. When you say it the horse is expected to stop NOW, regardless of what it is doing. this is great when your horse is flipping out!

Maybe you could teach him a command that even when he is stimulated he learns to follow. Like work on a freeze command while he's really ramped up so he could learn when you say that word whatever he is doing it makes him stop.
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Postby furever_pit » January 15th, 2010, 8:16 pm

Maberi, this afternoon at work I totally had the epiphany that his recall for performance obedience should is not (and should not be, really) the same thing. :shock: I never really thought about having an "emergency recall" before so thanks for sharing that.

As for conditioning the emergency recall - of course we will, we do that with all of our training. :wink:

I am interested in the recall and release thing. Definitely going to look into it. Thanks for the idea and info guys. :D
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Postby Hundilein » January 17th, 2010, 1:40 am

furever_pit wrote:I am interested in the recall and release thing. Definitely going to look into it. Thanks for the idea and info guys. :D

It worked wonders for Renee. She's still not completely reliable off leash, but only because I haven't put the time into it, and I don't have a safe place where I can let her off leash to chase squirrels. I've practiced on a long line with her. I just let her go and sniff something, get really close to her and when I see a hint that she's halfway focused on me, I call her. If she comes, I click and immediately send her back to whatever she was sniffing (she knows the cue "go sniff", so I use that). Let her sniff for a little while, then call her again and immediately release her to sniff, repeat, repeat, repeat, gradually calling from farther away to make it harder. Once she started to figure out that coming to me would earn her the reward of doing what she wanted, she was much more interested in coming to me. I also use my emergency recall word for this kind of thing, and try never to use it when I don't mean it (i.e. I only use it when it is a real emergency and I need her to come to me as fast as she can, or we are training). This way of using the Premack principle has helped me so many times.

plebayo wrote:In horses we try teaching them the "Whoah" command. When you say it the horse is expected to stop NOW, regardless of what it is doing. this is great when your horse is flipping out!

Just wanted to mention that this can also be quite helpful with a dog in an emergency. Classic example is the dog that runs across the street before you can call him back to you. You don't want to call him back across the street, so you tell him to stop (or sit or down) so that you can go and get him.
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Postby furever_pit » January 17th, 2010, 8:59 am

This is why I love this board. So many knowledgeable people here and I always know I can find out about new (to me anyway) methods here. I really appreciate it.

Hundilein, would you mind me asking what your word for the emergency recall is?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 17th, 2010, 11:00 am

GETYOUREFFINGASSBACKOVERHERE!!!!!

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Postby Hundilein » January 17th, 2010, 12:06 pm

furever_pit wrote:This is why I love this board. So many knowledgeable people here and I always know I can find out about new (to me anyway) methods here. I really appreciate it.

Hundilein, would you mind me asking what your word for the emergency recall is?


Mine is pretty simple, I use "Come". I experimented for a little while with "Here", but went back to "come" because it's easier for me to remember. I've trained myself not to use it unless I really mean it. For my everyday, around the house kind of recall I usually say "c'mon" or "this way" or "over here".

Another thing that I always tell my basic obedience classes is to only use your emergency recall when you know your dog is going to come to you while you are training for it. You can't throw it around willy nilly when you want your dog to come to you, but you've put him in a situation where you KNOW he won't come, or you're not prepared to reward the heck out of it when he gets to you. Once you have the recall in place, the idea is for it to work in any situation, but you can't expect that before you've trained it, and you can't use it when it's not a real emergency.
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 17th, 2010, 9:18 pm

My emergency recall cue is "TREATS!" because if I say that word, they ALWAYS get treats... 8) I use COME for formal recalls, and HERE for informal in the yard, and WITH ME for sticking close while off leash on walks or such. For getting them back faster...I will sometimes add NOW!!! lol or TODAY RIPLEY!

My dogs are off leash most of the time...so we have to have good recalls (though of course nothing in life is 100%, they are as close to that as I can get!). I also love using Premack for recalls...and I've found it eventually leads to dogs NOT wanting to leave your side because fantastic things happen when they're near you. :D

I have never corrected on a recall...and my dogs are taught with positive reinforcement...and I have had them off-leash in many situations. Sawyer has to go off leash (or dropped leash) for John out in public for certain things...and he shuts down easily. So +R really works for him...for both of them...because it would really suck to have your Service Dog run off on you. ;) (yeah, I've seen this happen with +P trained SDs).
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Postby Hundilein » January 17th, 2010, 9:41 pm

Actually, now that I think about it some more, I have a second recall word, which is "Puppies!", said in a high-pitched, sing song voice. That's what I started using when Renee and Hannah would bark in the yard, so like Erin's "Treats", it was always rewarded. It sort of became an emergency recall without me really thinking about it. It still works though, I used it this morning when Renee was barking at something outside while I was in the shower. I yelled "puppies" and then when I heard her tags jingling towards me, I cracked the door and told her how fabulous she was.
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Postby amazincc » January 17th, 2010, 9:45 pm

Our is "ouch". :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 17th, 2010, 10:31 pm

Hundilein wrote:Actually, now that I think about it some more, I have a second recall word, which is "Puppies!", said in a high-pitched, sing song voice. That's what I started using when Renee and Hannah would bark in the yard, so like Erin's "Treats", it was always rewarded. It sort of became an emergency recall without me really thinking about it. It still works though, I used it this morning when Renee was barking at something outside while I was in the shower. I yelled "puppies" and then when I heard her tags jingling towards me, I cracked the door and told her how fabulous she was.


My word for calling Inara into the house when she's barking is...SERIOUSLY?!?!

lol...I just realized that tonight...I called her in..."Inara SERIOUSLY?" She came running in happily. :giggle:
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Postby airwalk » January 17th, 2010, 10:34 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:GETYOUREFFINGASSBACKOVERHERE!!!!!

:giggle:



Hmmm this is my emergency recall with Magic....I totally get that!
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