Interesting training development

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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 10:38 am

I've been ticked at Riggs since Sunday afternoon. As a result, I have completely stopped my usual chatter with him. Like most people, I have running conversations with my dog. I have only been talking to him when I tell him to do something and when I praise him for doing it.

All of a sudden his obedience is 10 times better.
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Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby katiek0417 » May 3rd, 2006, 10:47 am

Greg constantly gets on my case about "reasoning" with my dogs...and my version of reasoning: "Sacha, why can't you just sit? I don't understand why you do this stuff one second, and ignore me the next...I mean, you know this stuff." Of course, I get a blank stare back from her....

When I cut out the "talking" she's so much better....

I also tend to talk to my dogs alot in baby voice etc....it's really pathetic...

I'm glad things are working out for you, though!!!!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 10:51 am

I don't do the baby voice, but I tend to just chatter. With Ruby it's almost constant, with Riggs not so much, but still a lot.
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Postby msvette2u » May 3rd, 2006, 11:29 am

What We Say to Dogs
"Stay off the couch now, Ginger! You hear me? Ginger, stay off of the couch!"

What Dogs Understand
"Blah blah blah blah blah GINGER blah blah blah GINGER blah blah blah blah blah"
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Postby SisMorphine » May 3rd, 2006, 11:34 am

msvette2u wrote:What We Say to Dogs
"Stay off the couch now, Ginger! You hear me? Ginger, stay off of the couch!"

What Dogs Understand
"Blah blah blah blah blah GINGER blah blah blah GINGER blah blah blah blah blah"

Wally knows exactly what I'm saying everytime I talk to him. In fact, I think he has a better grasp of the English Language than I do.

Unfortunately he's also "too cool for school" and chooses to flip me the bird and do the opposite of what's asked. Lax training, blah blah blah, I know, don't care, he's perfect anyway :)
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby Hoyden » May 3rd, 2006, 11:38 am

I chatter at my dogs all the time, but I learned from watching the MP's on base, chatter in one tone, give commands in another.

I almost bark my commands, I lower my tone and make it short and clipped.

My command sequence sounds like this:

BIRDIE!
SIT!
Good sit! (or good girl)
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 11:51 am

I don't want to bark commands. I want to whisper them and have the dog do as he is told. You can't bark commands with a deaf dog, you use hand signals.

A command is a command, and it would seem that the dog actually will listen if those commands are not lost in the rest of my constant babble.

With the exception of ""don't be rude" all of my commands are one word.

Sit
Down
Enough
Off
Out
Ok
Here
Attack
Watch

Language depends on the dog and the application.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby Hoyden » May 3rd, 2006, 11:53 am

mnp13 wrote:I don't want to bark commands. I want to whisper them and have the dog do as he is told. You can't bark commands with a deaf dog, you use hand signals.

A command is a command, and it would seem that the dog actually will listen if those commands are not lost in the rest of my constant babble.

With the exception of ""don't be rude" all of my commands are one word.

Sit
Down
Enough
Off
Out
Ok
Here
Attack
Watch

Language depends on the dog and the application.


It's not so much the VOLUME of my voice, but rather the TONE of my voice that conveys the command.

I loose my voice alot, so I've also begun teaching her hand commands too. I click my tongue for her to look at me, then give her the hand signal.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 11:55 am

Hoyden wrote:It's not so much the VOLUME of my voice, but rather the TONE of my voice that conveys the command.

I loose my voice alot, so I've also begun teaching her hand commands too. I click my tongue for her to look at me, then give her the hand signal.


So, how will you change your tone in a hand signal?

Just something to think about.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby katiek0417 » May 3rd, 2006, 11:56 am

Sacha's house commands are japanese....so rather than being one or two syllables, they are typically more:

su-wa-tay = sit
ya-ka-ma-shi = quiet
guy-ko-ko-jean = alert/bark
oy-e-day = come

People always look at me funny....

I have cut out using their names in front of their commands except at home. When I'm working them at training, I'm only working one at a time...so, they darn well better know which one I'm talking to....

At home, I always use names first...so they know which one is supposed to do what...not that it works...but, in theory....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 11:58 am

Ruby has learned French because she watches Riggs and hears the commands. However, Riggs is to obey the French and Ruby the German/whatever language I ahve mixed in there.

I don't use the names, just correct for obeying to the wrong word.
Michelle

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Postby katiek0417 » May 3rd, 2006, 12:07 pm

I don't correct for obeying to the wrong word as long as it's not the dog I was talking to...for example, if I tell Nisha to "auf" (down), but don't say her name first, and sacha lays down, well, that's fine, she can lay down...I don't correct her. If nisha fails to lay down, she gets corrected "Pfooey, auf."

I use the names if I want, for example, Sacha to stay, but Nisha to come with me....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby Hoyden » May 3rd, 2006, 12:12 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Hoyden wrote:It's not so much the VOLUME of my voice, but rather the TONE of my voice that conveys the command.

I loose my voice alot, so I've also begun teaching her hand commands too. I click my tongue for her to look at me, then give her the hand signal.


So, how will you change your tone in a hand signal?

Just something to think about.


I can't, but I also don't chatter with my hands, so she knows what the signals mean and they are not diluted.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
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Postby SisMorphine » May 3rd, 2006, 12:12 pm

Wally only speaks English as far as I know. I barely speak English so I wouldn't be able to train him in a different language.

Michelle, like you I also whisper my commands to Wally. My "sit" sounds more like "sst" very quietly. If I give the command any sort of tone he will tune me out.

But with Halo if I DON'T bark them he'll do whatever he damn well pleases. His obedience is pretty badly mucked up from previous inconsistent training, so once I'm able to walk again (been laid up for almost 3 weeks now . . . again . . . annoying) he'll be getting hardcore basic obedience lessons and I hope to one day be able to use quiet commands with him also. But his road will be longer than it was with Wally because I have to go back and redo all of the training that he had previous to me to be able to do it correctly.

My friend had a seiziure service dog, a Greyhound actually, who was trained all on hand commands because when she was going into a seiziure she would lose her voice first but would still be able to give commands via her right side for another 10 seconds. He was by far the most AMAZING dog I have ever met. He was 100 pounds of pure white Greyhound (not an ounce of fat on him . . .he was MASSIVE . . . for a size comparison Wally is only 73.2 and 29" tall, he's a big dog), who defied everything that a Greyhound was supposed to be (aloof, difficult to train, never allowed to be offleash, etc). He gave this woman the ability to live alone and be able to keep her freedom. I can't even tell you how heartbreaking it was when she lost him to cancer. I think that all dogs and trainers could have learned a lot from watching Finn work. His work ethic was always on, and second to none. Purely amazing.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 12:16 pm

Hoyden wrote:I can't, but I also don't chatter with my hands, so she knows what the signals mean and they are not diluted.


Exactly, that was my point. Tone shouldn't matter. If the dog knows the commands, it should listen regardless of tone.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby Hoyden » May 3rd, 2006, 12:16 pm

mnp13 wrote:Ruby has learned French because she watches Riggs and hears the commands. However, Riggs is to obey the French and Ruby the German/whatever language I ahve mixed in there.

I don't use the names, just correct for obeying to the wrong word.


Just out of curiousity - why do you use different languages for their commands?

I know that some of the MP's did that to ensure that the dog did not obey a command given by someone else.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 12:23 pm

Riggs came to me trained in French, which was funny because I am fluent. It was fate. :o

Ruby is trained in German/whatever because that is what my trainer uses.

I train in another language because I never use 'assissez' in normal conversation. I may use 'down' though.

Someone I used to train with used 'auf' (prounced 'off') for 'down', but when that dog was on her roommate's bed and she said 'off' as in 'get off the bed' the dog layed down on her.

I'd rather use commands that only get said when they are commands.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby Hoyden » May 3rd, 2006, 12:35 pm

That makes sense.

I stopped using OKAY as a release command for a similar reason.

Birdie heard a women on the phone in the office say OKAY and she got up from a down/stay.

I say Bruha for a release command.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
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Postby mnp13 » May 3rd, 2006, 12:52 pm

Hoyden wrote:I say Bruha for a release command.


Which will be fine as long as you are not in a German tavern
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby katiek0417 » May 3rd, 2006, 1:07 pm

Aside from Greg (my main trainer) and I, I don't want anyone being able to use their "competition" commands....

One thing that we do at the other place I train at is when they are doing bitework, the decoy will say their commands to them...and if they listen, they get corrected....it's to teach them that they should only listen to you....

It's funny...Sacha will, for the most part, listen to anyone who gives a house command...if you give a competition command, she won't listen...you need to prove (give a good correction) that she should listen to you....

Nisha, on the other hand, will really not obey anyone but Greg or me...no matter whether it is house or competition....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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