Degan's barking mad!

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Postby pitsnok » December 18th, 2009, 9:05 pm

How have you guys managed to teach your dogs to 'hush'? Since Degan learned 'speak', he seems to think he should be able to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants (especially when he is wanting to play). I have tried to come up with some way to get 'hush' down, but have had no luck whatsoever.

Any advice?
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » December 18th, 2009, 9:09 pm

I'm moving this to the training section for you. :wink:
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby amazincc » December 18th, 2009, 9:09 pm

pitsnok wrote:How have you guys managed to teach your dogs to 'hush'? Since Degan learned 'speak', he seems to think he should be able to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants (especially when he is wanting to play). I have tried to come up with some way to get 'hush' down, but have had no luck whatsoever.

Any advice?


None. I've created my own monster as well. :crazy2: :nono:
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Postby pitsnok » December 18th, 2009, 9:13 pm

:doh:
Thank you for the move... I'm obviously still new :smileUp:
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
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Postby Ino » December 18th, 2009, 10:45 pm

Usually with Ino, when he barks like crazy indoors it is because he hears someone outside. Usually if I tell him "it's ok"- he will stop....if he doesn't I give him the down command and he stops when he is lying down. I honestly dont remember how we got the "it's ok" to work for the most part, but it does when we are indoors. Outside- if he barks because he sees a stranger, it is not so easy to get him to stop. We are working on it, but that is not a tackled issue for us :| .
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Postby Malli » December 19th, 2009, 12:50 am

there are a couple of things you can do, depends on what type of training you'd like to use?

You could use a "Hey!" or an "A-A!" and failing that add a collar-pop correction, or you could only reward for barking when you want and ignore the "back talk" completely, OR, you could get fancy and start clicker training Degan (no clicks/treats will become a clear message)
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Postby mnp13 » December 21st, 2009, 1:14 pm

We use "enough" for a general "knock it off" command and it works fine for general house stuff, but does not work for Riggs' endless barking in his crate. Besides that, it's pretty much good for everything.

I can't remember how I initially taught it, but I think I used the "here I come" method, which is basically that if I arrive a world of crap is coming with me. When I teach it in my brats class, I tell my students to use a drag line and redirect the unwanted behavior. :wink:
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Postby Pit♥bull » December 21st, 2009, 1:21 pm

mnp13 wrote:a world of crap is coming with me.
Graphic description please...... :|
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Postby mnp13 » December 21st, 2009, 1:53 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:
mnp13 wrote:a world of crap is coming with me.
Graphic description please...... :|


lol

Why does everyone always want to know how I'm "mean" to my dogs?

It's been a looooong time...

For example, at my old house, all of my doors were French doors, and the dogs had punched through the center pane of one of them multiple times. >( So after one "enough" I would haul my butt off of the couch and walk to them while they were flipping out at the door and grab them by the collars, scream at them, march them to their crates and chuck them in (yes, I know, that's using crates for punishment, but there is a point, where it's just better for all involved). After a few times of that, after one "enough", they would continue but knock it off when they heard me stand up... but they still got in trouble when I arrived. After a few times of that, all I had to say was "enough" and it stopped.

Over time, "enough" has generalized to "stop whatever you are doing and find something else to do." Don't get me wrong, "enough" isn't exactly a calm and quiet command, I generally scream it at the top of my lungs. But it works (mostly) :|
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
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Postby Pit♥bull » December 21st, 2009, 3:14 pm

mnp13 wrote:but there is a point, where it's just better for all involved
LMAO
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Postby maberi » December 21st, 2009, 3:43 pm

When exactly is Degan barking ex(to be let out, when he wants you to play, someone walking past the house, etc...)? Although barking can be self rewarding, usually there is a reason for the barking other than, it just feels good.

You indicated that Degan now barks when he wants to play. I would be curious to see if anyone has actually rewarded this behavior with play. My guess is yes, otherwise he wouldn't continue to speak as an indicator that he wants to play.

Instead of trying to "squish" the behavior once it starts, why not address the real problem all together?
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 21st, 2009, 4:34 pm

I'm seconding what Matt said...figure out the root cause, and treat that, not just the symptom.

If he's demand barking for attention/play/etc...what do you do? If my guys bark at me for attention or to play, I ignore the barking...if it continues, they get a time out in a separate area from me (another room, outside, etc.

If he's barking at something...work on teaching a new behavior in place of the barking. The "Look At That" game from Control Unleashed by Leslie McDivitt certainly helped me with getting control of Inara's barking out the window at the neighbors and mail-lady. She now knows to "look" at the people, and she gets a click and a treat...but only if she just looks, not if she barks.

Truly if you have the behavior under stimulus control (every time you say "speak" he barks...and ONLY when you say "speak"), then if you don't give the cue, then the behavior shouldn't happen. But that's rare with the "speak" cue and behavior. ;)
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Postby mnp13 » December 21st, 2009, 5:11 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:
mnp13 wrote:but there is a point, where it's just better for all involved
LMAO


Do you have any idea what a pain in the ass it is to replace single panes of glass in French doors? And how weird it looks when there are 11 panes of 90 year old wavy glass and one piece of brand new glass in the middle? And when I've done it three times in 5 weeks... well... they are happy to be in their crates rather than deal with me at that point. ARGH!!!!

Plus, the single panes of glass are really dangerous... new window glass is tempered so is somewhat "less dangerous" but the old stuff could have crippled them.

:rolleyes2: I love 'em... but... lol
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Postby maberi » December 21st, 2009, 5:19 pm

I give you credit for doing it yourself. When the boys broke one in our door after looking at it I threw up my hands and hired someone to fix it
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Postby pitsnok » December 21st, 2009, 6:12 pm

He just paws the door when he wants out, and we don't mind him barking at passers-by.
The annoying barking happens whenever he is trying to play. When it first started I would just turn my back to him hoping he would stop, but that never worked. Now I've realized if we shut him out of the room or something he gets the point. I usually try to ignore him but other people in our house seem to be less patient and give him some attention when he does it. If i can manage to grab his collar he immediately lays down because he knows he is 'in trouble'.
It is obviously just pent up energy causing the barking, and we are working on getting more exercise...but I just need to figure out how to teach him that "enough" means enough!
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 21st, 2009, 7:50 pm

pitsnok wrote:but I just need to figure out how to teach him that "enough" means enough!


Sorry to say that it's not gonna happen if some people in the house give in to his barking... :| Everyone's gotta be on the same page with training...as consistent as can be.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby amazincc » December 21st, 2009, 8:49 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Sorry to say that it's not gonna happen if some people in the house give in to his barking... :| Everyone's gotta be on the same page with training...as consistent as can be.


Sepp is a very vocal dog... always has been. I taught him the "speak" command in the hopes of getting some control over the constant barking/growling/grumbling he does when he wants something... sees someone... hears something.
It's so hard to ignore a dog who will - literally - bark in your face until you DO pay attention... :oops:
I have removed him (crate or different room)... and he will continue to bark and whine for quite some time. The minute he's quiet I reward him, but he goes right back to barking at me - he's a back-talker in the worst way. lol
I remember when I couldn't wait until my kids started walking and talking... OMG... what was I thinking??? :giggle:

Be careful what you wish for, I guess. :lol3:
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Postby pitsnok » December 21st, 2009, 9:10 pm

Oh my goodness that is the truth! Since I am out of school for break right now I will have more time at home, and can hopefully get a little bit of control. (hopefully being the keyword!)

And it is SUCH a pain having a roommate other than my boyfriend and I. He sort of takes the, "it's not my dog" stance on things that might require any effort... but when he benefits from it he'd claim the dogs in a heartbeat. He will get the dogs all riled up and ready to play, and then get mad when they won't leave him alone. And definitely reinforces the barking, even if it's just telling Degan to shut up. It just takes patience which he lacks. My boyfriend does it too but not as much. I am always reminding him that if we just ignore it for a few days he really will stop!
It's funny because you can tell who works with the dogs most, (myself) because they know what they can't get away with... but I hate that they try to see how far they can go with everyone else.
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 21st, 2009, 9:26 pm

pitsnok wrote: I am always reminding him that if we just ignore it for a few days he really will stop!


Well, that's not entirely the case...many behaviors won't just go away on their own...at least that quickly. It's called Extinction, and it's a really hard thing to get rid of an ingrained behavior by simply ignoring. Barking can be a self-rewarding behavior, because it's fun to bark for many dogs. :D It's one behavior that I almost never tell people to ignore completely. Sure, ignoring can be part of the training...but it's not going to be the entire training plan.

Extinction:
http://www.clickersolutions.com/article ... nction.htm
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby amazincc » December 21st, 2009, 9:36 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:. Barking can be a self-rewarding behavior, because it's fun to bark for many dogs. :D It's one behavior that I almost never tell people to ignore completely. Sure, ignoring can be part of the training...but it's not going to be the entire training plan.



Hmmm... so, what do you suggest instead? I think in Sepps case... he really does enjoy barking. I've seen him run around in circles in the yard, just barking his head off... at nothing. :|
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