To re-home home or put down? (Non-APBT) HELP!

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Postby Muttkip » December 16th, 2009, 4:27 am

Alright, as most of you know I have a 7 year old retired hunting Beagle named Beau. He's a great dog and I've had him for about 6.5 years. I got him when he was 6 months old after my SBT/APBT cross Brandi was put down. He's hands down one of the best dogs I've ever owned. A real pleasure to work with, great prey-drive, great family pet. He has one quirk and that WAS food aggression, I broke him of that one REAL quick. He snapped at me one time when we first got him, he got a swift kick to the head, and never did it again. No I don't beat my dog, an ass slap once in a blue moon is it. But anyways...he's been a great dog over the last 6.5 years. But now I'm stuck on what to do. See in my household we're on a crate and rotate system thanks to my mom's stupid ass westie. He starts the fights and Beau finishes them. And each time that they've fought was MY MOTHER'S FAULT. She leaves the doors open, or ALLOWS HER dog in BEAU'S/MY room. And then it begins, most of the time Wrigley the westie will bark and lunge to get to Beau (It's only Beau he has an issue with) and Beau will look at him unammused and walk off, but the minute Wrigley jumps him, Beau tears him up each and every single time.

About a month ago, while I was in Florida for a month to clear my head after a really bad break-up with my boyfriend of 3 years, my mom had Beau out on his zip-line and he slipped his harness, (I chain him on his stillwater collar...due to him being an escape artist) and Wrigley was outside on his chainspot and he spotted Beau, Beau saw him and went for it. The fight lasted about 30 minutes, and when my mom went to pick HER dog up, Beau re-directed and caught my mother's thumb and about took it off. He backed off after that and cowered and ran into the house and into his crate. This sealed the deal for me.

I want Beau in the dirt, mom refuses it. Not for the bite, but because I'm about to be in the Army and this proved to me, my mother cannot handle MY dog, when I'm not around. I want what is best for my family and my dog. He's lived a good life, and it wouldn't be fair to let him live at home on a crate and rotate system while I'm not there to manage it. By law he's mine, the tags and everything are in my name. But my mom does not want me to re-home him or have him put him down. How can I convince her, it's for the best. It's killing me to make this choice, but I don't really trust many people to handle a dog of his calibur (He's a high prey-driven dog, and doesn't listen to anyone but me! And he's not for the average pet owner, he's a working dog, not a pet...and yes I know I'm talking about a beagle). So my question is would it be fair to just let him run free at the rainbow bridge or give my mom a chance and see how it goes?
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Postby LMM » December 16th, 2009, 9:01 am

Oh where to go with this post, soooooo many ways! :shock:

How in the bloody blue moon does a dog fight last 30 minutes without some human being able to break it up some damn how? Were these dogs left on chains outside unattended? You kicked your dog in the head? You want what's best for your dog but in the same breath of wanting him to run free at rainbow bridge *cue angels and puppy music* you say you want him in the dirt :?

Holy hell.

Do you think you can re-home him? Has he ever been human aggressive? It sounds to me like no but he may need to be the only dog in a new household. This doesn't really sound like a problem dog to me just an inconvenience for his human at this point. If these dogs are being left chained unsupervised where they can fight for 30 minutes before intervention, then no, your mom isn't fit to handle this dog. That doesn't mean you can't find another more dog savvy home for him versus killing him.
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Postby katiek0417 » December 16th, 2009, 10:16 am

Okay, I knew what my feelings were towards your post prior to this, but I wanted to wait until I was fully coherent before posting.

Muttkip wrote:Alright, as most of you know I have a 7 year old retired hunting Beagle named Beau. He's a great dog and I've had him for about 6.5 years. I got him when he was 6 months old after my SBT/APBT cross Brandi was put down. He's hands down one of the best dogs I've ever owned. A real pleasure to work with, great prey-drive, great family pet. He has one quirk and that WAS food aggression, I broke him of that one REAL quick. He snapped at me one time when we first got him, he got a swift kick to the head, and never did it again. No I don't beat my dog, an ass slap once in a blue moon is it.


This is just a word of advice. Take it or leave it. But this is a public forum, and this makes you look really bad. Trust me, anyone on here can tell you that I use all methods to train my dog (it's not all positive reinforcement). I use pinches and I use e-collars. I train for competition obedience and sport work and own (and handle) the Level 3 National Champion for PSA. So I am not opposed to using aversives in my training. However, your comment sounds much worse than using aversives. Most people on here will recognize that there may be a time when someone and his/her dog have to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting - but that's usually the way it's put. No one needs to hear that you gave your dog a "swift kick to the head." Even followed by "No I don't beat my dog," it's not any better.


The fight lasted about 30 minutes, and when my mom went to pick HER dog up, Beau re-directed and caught my mother's thumb and about took it off. He backed off after that and cowered and ran into the house and into his crate. This sealed the deal for me.


Your dog was in drive. How could he not be if he was fighting for 30 minutes. It doesn't sound like he's human aggressive. It sounds like he was in drive. Not sure that's a bad thing. As far as your mom goes, from your post I'm under the assumption that she wasn't watching them. Or maybe she was watching if she knew the fight was going on for 30 minutes (how else would she have known). Beagles aren't huge. Neither are Westies. I have separated two 65-70 pound malinois going full force at each other (and I weigh 110 lbs). So, if it took her this long to separate them, then, yes I do question her ability to take care of your dog when you're gone.

I want Beau in the dirt, mom refuses it.


Wow! I tend to not beat around the bush and to say things without sugar coating them. But that's extreme. You want Beau in the dirt? Ummm....I don't even know what to say to that. Everyone on this board loves dogs...and I can tell you that not one of them would ever put euthanizing a dog in those terms. This goes back to what I said before...my advice. Be careful what you say on a public board. Again, this doesn't put you in the best light!

It's killing me to make this choice, but I don't really trust many people to handle a dog of his calibur (He's a high prey-driven dog, and doesn't listen to anyone but me! And he's not for the average pet owner, he's a working dog, not a pet...and yes I know I'm talking about a beagle). So my question is would it be fair to just let him run free at the rainbow bridge or give my mom a chance and see how it goes?


Okay, I'm not trying to be mean here. But, why can't anyone else handle him? And, is it that no one else can handle him, or is it that you don't WANT anyone else to handle him? People adopt "tough to handle" dogs everyday...and they manage it just fine. Ask a few members on here about their experiences with "hard" dogs. Beagle rescues deal with hunting beagles all the time (I can't tell you how many people just dump their retired hunting dogs at the shelters, then Beagle Rescue picks them up). Rescues match people to the dogs.

You also don't know what he'd be like in another person's hands. My husband's first malinois was extremely handler aggressive - to the point where obedience sessions turned into a full nine-round battle. Chipper would come up the line and attack Greg without Greg even giving him a correction. He put the dog in a police department where the dog put the officer in the hospital. The dog finally fell into the hands of a woman handler. The last Greg heard, Chipper had been the best police dog she ever had. He never once came up the line at her, and he retired and spent the rest of his days playing frisbee with her in her backyard.

I can promise you there are people who would be able to handle him.
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 16th, 2009, 10:26 am

Well said Katrina...summed it all up perfectly. Now I don't have to open my big mouth. ;)
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Postby amazincc » December 16th, 2009, 10:43 am

See in my household we're on a crate and rotate system thanks to my mom's stupid ass westie.

Actual crate/rotate... or just kept in different rooms?

How can I convince her, it's for the best.

Best for whom??? Certainly not for your "beloved" Beau who is
A real pleasure to work with, great prey-drive, great family pet.
:neutral:

So my question is would it be fair to just let him run free at the rainbow bridge or give my mom a chance and see how it goes?

NO and NO.
What would be fair is if you made a real concerted effort to rehome Beau to a beagle-savy person after fully disclosing any "issues", and/or concerns you may have.

As for the rest of your post - I'm mildly horrified at the way you explained/worded things, but - this being the internet - maybe that's just the way you express yourself.

If you love this dog as much as you say you do - you owe him a chance at a better life. Obviously he shouldn't be left w/your Mom, since she doesn't seem to be able to manage two dogs at once, for whatever reason. It happens... not all owners are cut out for a strict crate/rotate schedule, and that's okay.
But to euthanize a dog because "his people" lack the skills to incorperate a safer system for all involved??? Really... you think THAT'S fair???

Hello... have you MET us??? :wave2:
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Postby Pit♥bull » December 16th, 2009, 10:57 am

I'm too "HARSH"to reply :|
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Postby plebayo » December 16th, 2009, 11:11 am

I thought you said you had a home for this dog already?

I think you're being completely selfish over this whole decision. You've known you were going into the Army for a while now and you should have rehomed the dog the minute you enlisted. This whole waiting to the last minute thing is just stupid, I'm sorry, but it is. People do it all the time "Oh my god I have to euthanize my dog because I'm leaving in a week!" Well, it's your fault for not planning for your dog's future. You also have known for a long time your mom obviously cannot handle both dogs, you said it before in your other post!

Why should the dog have to have his life cut short, when he could easily live another 7-10 more years because YOU did not plan properly?
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Postby TheRedQueen » December 16th, 2009, 11:16 am

plebayo wrote:I thought you said you had a home for this dog already?



Yup, found this:
viewtopic.php?t=31495

Beau was supposedly going to live with her friend... :|
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

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Postby amazincc » December 16th, 2009, 11:40 am

I already made plans for him to go live with my best friend (whom is only 16) and her mother. They live in SC, near where I will be living for about 2.5 months.


You might want to contact these places ASAP.

http://beagle.rescueme.org/SouthCarolina

http://www.tribeagles.org/
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Postby TinaMartin » December 16th, 2009, 4:52 pm

Wow! I am horrified! I REALLY hope this is just a matter of really bad wording, though I doubt it is. There are plenty of people who know how to handle a "difficult" dog. I own a dog that most would consider a nightmare! I crate and rotate. How sad for your dog!
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Postby Muttkip » December 16th, 2009, 5:19 pm

Most of that came out wrong last night, I was having a complete and total meltdown and mental breakdown last night when I typed this up, and I made it come out REALLY bad. That "kick in the head" was a ONE TIME deal, I was about 14 when I did it, and I have done nothing similar to that since. I knew NOTHING about dog training and I was told by the person we got him that he was like that and I had no clue what it meant. I have NEVER done anything that cruel since, and I can honestly say I DO NOT BEAT MY DOG. He does get a light tap on the butt once in a few months and that is only to get his attention, most of the time he likes the butt smacking and will come back for more.

Yes we are on a CRATE/SEPARATE ROOM/CHAIN Rotate system. Beau when he is is indoors, does not get free rein of the house, he stays in my room or in his crate in my room. He eats in my room, he sleeps in my room, he pretty much lives in just my room. My mom allows HER dog to have free rein of the house and poor Beau gets the short end of the stick, hince why he lives outdoors during the day. He's on a 75-foot zip-line, with access to water, food, and TWO dog houses. He's lived outside most of his life to begin with on the zip-line and we've never had any issues with it. He comes in at night and in the winter during really cold days. We've been doing this for three years, and the only person that slips up is my mother. NOT me, but she does....because for some reason she thinks that her dog's harness is to tight and he'll slip it, or she'll leave my door open. And just to point out, my dog is exercised EVERY DAY. He gets walked 4-5 miles everyday with flirtpole work and tug-of-war. We also have a third dog, a Dachshund whom gets along with everyone, and he's easy to manage.

I'm currently almost done with my paperwork for the Army, and then I go to MEPS to get my ship out date for basic. So I know I do have time to find him a better home, cause re-reading what I wrote, that was just flat out STUPID on my part, for even considering putting him down.

As for my friend taking him, I'm not going to let her. She already has a REALLY HA and REALLY DA GSD. And I'm not going to stick my dog back into a crate/rotate position.

I MIGHT have a place for him to go, with my godmother on a 30 acre farm, with his own pen and her being in beagles for almost 40 years. But I need to convince MY mother that he's better off there, then here at home.

And as for the 30 minute fight, that is how long I was told it went down. I was not here to witness it, I was out of town for a month.

I hope this clears some things up for you guys.

I'm not a bad person and I do love my dog, I'm just having a REALLY hard time right now and am not thinking clearly enough.
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Postby amazincc » December 16th, 2009, 7:06 pm

By law he's mine, the tags and everything are in my name.


If you're old enough to join the Army and fight a war - stand up to your mother and do right by your dog. :| :dance:
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Postby mnp13 » December 16th, 2009, 7:18 pm

As for my friend taking him, I'm not going to let her. She already has a REALLY HA and REALLY DA GSD. And I'm not going to stick my dog back into a crate/rotate position.

I thought that was a done deal? Did you not know that her dog was dog aggressive?? When did you find out?

I have to wonder how a 30 minute dog fight didn't end up with a dog at the emergency vet (or frankly, dead) but the redirect was bad enough to send your mom to the hospital? And I am assuming you were being literal, since you are thinking about putting him down for that bite.

I really am not following this whole story... your mom doesn't like the dog, but allows fight after fight to happen because she doesn't pay attention to the dog? But she doesn't want you rehome the dog? Are these actually fights? Not to be rude, but dog fights include blood, vet trips, stitches, and all sorts of fun-ness, I really can't imagine anyone letting that happen over and over and over in their house. Seriously, who could afford the bills alone?

And I'm not going to stick my dog back into a crate/rotate position.

Why? If she's responsible about it, what's the problem with it?

By law he's mine, the tags and everything are in my name. But my mom does not want me to re-home him or have him put him down.

But I need to convince MY mother that he's better off there, then here at home.

Ok, he's yours, so make the decision. :|
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