Help! Looks like another allergy dog...

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 10:52 am

Poor Celena. We knew something was up with her skin. I'm now inclined to think it's allergies. I will be calling All Pets tomorrow morning to see what we can do for her. UGH. She is itching a lot. Both her armpits are raw, her chin is scabbed over, and her whole tummy and neck are covered with little red spots. I took her off chicken a couple of days ago and switched her to cooked ground beef and rice. She is so much worse yesterday and today.

Dumb question -- I thought it was the chicken, but since she is worse since the switch, should I stop the beef and rice, and go back to the chicken? I know it's one protein at a time and she had been on chicken since we got her a couple of weeks ago. She had gotten into Guido's kibble (just small amounts) a couple of times during those two weeks, but I didn't think it would be enough to cause a reaction. I do not know how fast a dog will react to an allergen and I don't want to compound things by switching her yet again.

I've thought about contact allergies, but I use hypoallergenic laundry detergent and vinegar to clean. Could she be sensitive to her own urine? At three months old she is going potty in her crate, but I change the bedding several times a day.

Can I give her something like Benadryl to help until we get into the vet? How about a bath in Epsom salts? I thought a bath might dry out her skin too much, but I read in Dar's thread about a bath and getting good and dry.

I know I need to consult Dr. B asap, but I value the wonderful knowledge on this forum and would like to do something to relieve her itching for now if I can.

Thanks!
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Postby kera09 » December 13th, 2009, 11:03 am

it could be a grain allergy :confused: maybe cut the rice out and stick just to meat. do you have any pics?
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Postby hugapitbull » December 13th, 2009, 11:19 am

Allergies are tough, if you search there are multiple threads here about them. She can have benedryl, but being a pup, I wouldn't guess at dosage, ask a vet. An adult pit can have up to 3 three time daily.

It is also possible it is the beef. At the very least, switch to cooked chicken and rice. Trouble had one of her worst reactions to beef when I tried her on raw. Even now, she gets no more than a bite of beef when we eat it.

Best to use an antibacterial/antifungal shampoo to minimize the itchy. If it is as bad as you indicate, chances are you won't see much change until she's been through a round of antibiotic, and maybe prednisone.

Trouble has suffered (as have we) since she was about that age. It isn't fun, but if you are persistent you will eventually find a routine that works for you.
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 11:24 am

Not very good quality, but here are the pics:

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 11:30 am

hugapitbull wrote:Allergies are tough, if you search there are multiple threads here about them. She can have benedryl, but being a pup, I wouldn't guess at dosage, ask a vet. An adult pit can have up to 3 three time daily.

It is also possible it is the beef. At the very least, switch to cooked chicken and rice. Trouble had one of her worst reactions to beef when I tried her on raw. Even now, she gets no more than a bite of beef when we eat it.

Best to use an antibacterial/antifungal shampoo to minimize the itchy. If it is as bad as you indicate, chances are you won't see much change until she's been through a round of antibiotic, and maybe prednisone.

Trouble has suffered (as have we) since she was about that age. It isn't fun, but if you are persistent you will eventually find a routine that works for you.


Thanks, Shanna. I know about Trouble's allergies. I have searched, but there is a lot here to look through. I didn't know Trouble was this young when the allergies started. So the littlest amount can trigger a reaction? I'm thinking Kera might have something there with the grain thing. Does Trouble have problems with grains?
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Postby hugapitbull » December 13th, 2009, 11:39 am

Ooh, I forgot she was white. White has a tendency toward skin issues.

Yes, it can be triggered by the smallest amounts. Trouble cannot have shrimp, not even a bite. When we had Trouble tested, they did not specifically do food tests, but immediately took her off grain. She has been on single source carb, single source protein ever since. Some of them do ok on brown rice as a carb source. Trouble has been on restricted diet for years now.

We also had issues with beef flavored heartworm meds, she now takes the non-flavored. Until you can get her to a vet tomorrow, a little benadryl gel shouldn't hurt. It may sooth some of the itching.
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 12:03 pm

I just realized the thing about grain is that she was eating crappy dog food when we got her. She didn't seem to have any problems then. Process of elimination would have me thinking it's not grains unless dogs don't show signs of allergies until a certain age. Are dogs ever allergic to all meats? Then I also wonder about vaccinosis since she had her vaccines last week, but I don't know how all of that works either. Just when I thought I had some things figured out along comes our Leni to shake things up!!!!

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Postby plebayo » December 13th, 2009, 12:26 pm

Are dogs ever allergic to all meats? Then I also wonder about vaccinosis since she had her vaccines last week, but I don't know how all of that works either. Just when I thought I had some things figured out along comes our Leni to shake things up!!!!



It could be puppy pyoderma, a skin infection and a dose of antibiotics should clear it up. I highly doubt it was caused by vaccines.

If she has a food allergy she could be allergic to anything. We just had a meeting about allergy testing and the blood tests are completely pointless for food allergies and apparently if you run the same sample twice for inhaled allergies you will get two different results. Intradermal testing is really the only accurate test for inhaled allergies.

My cat has food allergies and he is allergic to beef, buffalo, duck, chicken, quail, rabbit, venison, peas. Right now he eats a food called First Mate which is like Fish Flakes and Potato with Blueberries. Fish bothers him the least of any other protein source, which is strange because it is high on the allergen list. The specialist my vet talked to said he could be allergic to meat protein in general.

If you're feeding just cooked food Merrick's has single protein source meats, 100% duck, 100% buffalo etc. you could try those cooked/canned meats to see if there is another protein source out there that she isn't allergic to. I also can give you a human grade game company that you can order more exotic meats from if you need to go that route, I ordered $100 worth of Elk for my cat and he wouldn't touch the stuff!

I would definitely have her seen because even with food switches since she has a skin infection it's likely it won't go away on it's own, at least not easily.
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Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2009, 1:40 pm

That's EXACTLY how Faust started out... little red bumps who then turned into oozing sores. He had a touch of mange which then turned into a secondary skin infection, and they dx'd him w/allergies (food, environmental, and contact) on top of it. I also had him on RAW (mostly chicken), but switched on advise of his vet... he's now on Natural Balance Sweet Potato&Duck. We haven't had a major outbreak in months. He wears hemp collars, and I wash his bedding w/hypo-allergenic laundry detergent.
I recently gave him a beef bone, and where the bone touched his leg while he was gnawing on it - sore spots. :rolleyes2:
So, yeah... she could be having a reaction to beef OR chicken, but there is no way to tell for sure unless you do a food trial. Most dogs who are allergic to grain usually tolerate rice... a rice allergy is rare, but it does happen.
What's her weight right now? Faust started out w/a half Benadryl at 15 pounds... drops may be easier to measure.
I feel for you both - white Pits and their allergies, no fun. :hug3:
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 2:25 pm

She weighed 17 pounds a week ago. I'm sure she hasn't lost any weight, probably gained. That's interesting that Faust started out this way too. Leni's previous owners just called me to check on her and I asked a bunch of questions. She said Leni ate everything at their house, cheap dog food, beef, chicken, table scraps but did not have any signs of allergies until she came here. This makes me wonder about environmental/contact allergies. The laundry detergent I use is supposed to be hypoallergenic, but who knows? I just remembered too that the blanket she was laying on last night was the one we had Vinny wrapped in and they had washed it for us before we picked it up. It smelled like bleach. I didn't even think of it before because I thought we were looking at food allergies, not environmental or contact. I'm washing all her blankets in straight vinegar and water right now and no fabric softener. As far as food goes, I'll cut out the rice for now and see if that helps.

I don't know if this has any significance, but I seem to be overly allergic to Leni. I break out in very itchy hives every time I touch her. I can take a Loratidine to take care of that.
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Postby dlynne1123 » December 13th, 2009, 2:39 pm

How old is she? We generaly see allergies develop between 8 monthes and 2 years old. And it can be like a roller coaster at first. Depending on her age it may be a combination of just triggering her histamine releases now, it may not be the food. Either way, i would go hypoallergenic until you can get a handle on the skin, get it calmed down. Then try your trial and error. With food its tough, it could be anything, chicken, not duck, egg not wheat, beef, not venison. without a trial or a testing you won't know. And the food trials should be weeks, not days. I have seen dogs on a hypo diet, then someone thought marrow bones would be good and within hours the poor dog was broke out. It could be as acute as this. it could be gradual too, over a few weeks, which is why they recommend when switching foods to go a good 8 weeks or so.

Definately looks like allergies. Could you use benadryl until you see the vet? Or zyrtec. There are safe doses for your dogs until the doc gets to them. We have one bull dog on claritin regularly through the fall and it controls it so far. They have to start early though, before the histamines are released, if its too late, try zirtec(sp). Once daily just like us!

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Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2009, 2:40 pm

Is she on any flea meds???
Faust can't tolerate any of the topicals.
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 2:57 pm

Dlynne - Celena is three months old. I know I didn't want to change her foods again and again because I had read that food switches should be over several weeks. She ate the chicken for two weeks, then as she seemed to be getting worse, I decided to switch to beef and brown rice. Would she still get worse after removing the chicken from her diet if it is a chicken allergy? Reno and Guido still eat raw chicken.

Christine - yes, she was given a dose of Revolution about 10 days ago.
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Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2009, 3:16 pm

Hmmm... when I got Faust he came from a crappy situation. I'm sure he wasn't eating adequately OR enough, since he was extremely skinny. He definitely wasn't on quality kibble.
I started him on RAW... he did okay for a few days... then he got sick w/Parvo and mange. He started eating the rice/chicken prescription stuff from the vet, got vaccinated, got flea treatment... and the bumps started. Those turned into really bad sores under his arm pits, his back legs and his face. (There is a thread somewhere w/pics... he looked horrible :( )

My own theory is that some puppies are already compromised in some way when they haven't had the best start in life, especially nutrition-wise - or if they haven't been vaccinated/dewormed in a timely manner.
I think their systems get completely overwhelmed once they are being properly fed and cared for, at least in the beginning... and it manifests in all sorts of ways. I think their bodies just can't handle all the "good" that's being done for them, all at once.
Once Faust got on an antibiotic and regular supplements, plus the exact same food every day - everything started to calm down considerably after a few weeks.

I don't know if that makes sense (since I'm not a vet :wink: ), but that's MY theory... lol

And you could be right about the Vinnys blanket also... bleach = allergic reaction.
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 3:43 pm

I'm not a vet either, but I tend to agree with your theory, Christine. I wonder about the same thing, if they got such a crappy start then getting the "good" stuff overloads their little bodies. Faust's start in life, issues, etc. do look very similar to what we are dealing with now. I saw the thread with pics of Faust's outbreak. Celena doesn't look that bad yet, thank goodness, but I'm also trying to avoid hers' getting that bad if I can. I think you said too that Faust got bad quickly.

After reading everyone's advice, I have a plan of action for now until we can get into All Pets. I think I'll give her half a Benadryl, no brown rice, and fresh bedding. No supplements, no treats, and I'll watch her closely.

I'll post again after the vet visit. Cross your fingers and paws, please!
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Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Sounds like a plan!

Oh, and the other thing my vet told me... keep her as DRY as possible. If it's raining when she goes out, towel-dry her to the best of your ability - same when she takes a bath (unless you can use your hair dryer - Faust is having none of that lol).
Any dampness will aggravate the skin condition and help spread it faster.

Good thoughts coming her way. :)
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Postby Malli » December 13th, 2009, 6:02 pm

Hi :)

I have an Atopy dog (inhaled and environmental allergies).

From your description, sounds to me like a contact allergy (think about how she would lie on the floor :wink: ), it also sounds like a Staphylococcus infection (bacterial), so will need some Antibiotics and possibly medicated baths as well

Different dogs react entirely differently to different allergens and each individual will have his own time between exposure to the allergen and reaction as well(some react in hours or minutes and some take days or weeks), so it's really hard to say if its food, though I understand food allergies are much more rare then environmental.

Think positive! Maybe its just a case of Puppy Pimples(bacterial infection) and it'll never happen again!
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Postby HappyChick » December 13th, 2009, 6:13 pm

O.K.! I vote for Puppy Pimples even though I have not heard of them before now. They sound a whole lot easier to deal with than allergies.
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Postby blabsforbullies » December 13th, 2009, 7:42 pm

Lots of good thoughts here. I will add this....

Once you are on a limited hypoallergenic diet, it can take 8-12 WEEKS :shock: for you to see the full effect, if it will help. And during that trial, NOTHING ELSE CAN BE GIVEN, INCLUDING FLAVORED TREATS, FLAVORED MEDICATIONS, FLAVORED SUPPLEMENTS...NOTHING! It is extremely hard to do! :neutral:

It would be rare for allergies to develop at this stage, but it does happen.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2009, 8:17 pm

blabsforbullies wrote:Lots of good thoughts here. I will add this....

Once you are on a limited hypoallergenic diet, it can take 8-12 WEEKS :shock: for you to see the full effect, if it will help. And during that trial, NOTHING ELSE CAN BE GIVEN, INCLUDING FLAVORED TREATS, FLAVORED MEDICATIONS, FLAVORED SUPPLEMENTS...NOTHING! It is extremely hard to do! :neutral:

It would be rare for allergies to develop at this stage, but it does happen.

Good luck and keep us posted!


Can you give hypo-allergenic treats that have the same ingredients as the diet that's being fed?
'Cause, yeah... no treats is extremely hard to do. :oops: :wink:
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