Rochester NY abandoned Pit

Postby Jodi » November 24th, 2009, 4:16 pm

My husband Jeremy is a contractor who does a lot of work on rental properties in the city of Rochester...he frequently sees stray and abandoned dogs and we do our best to help them out when we can.

Today there has been an incident with an abandoned dog that has left me unsettled and I am hoping someone can give me some good advice on what to do here!

Jeremy received a call from a landlord that he works with saying that when he went to open the door of a rental property that has been empty (renters moved out 1 week ago) he was greeted by a dog. At first he thought the dog was a rottie so a friend of mine with a rottie resuce said she was interested in taking the dog...however, she said the situation had to be dealt with by AC first so that it couldn't be said that Jeremy "stole" the dog.

Jeremy called AC and when they checked out the situation, told him to just leave the dog there until they can get the Animal Cruelty division to check it out which could take up to a week..? The AC said the more "evidence" they have that the dog has been neglected/abused, the more likely they can prosecute the person responsible.

This just does NOT make sense to me! Maybe I am naive, or don't know the law very well, but willingly letting and animal's condition worsen to the point of possible death so that someone can be arrested doesn't seem right! Apparently the animal cruelty people will contact Jeremy when they go back to the house.

Does this happen often? Is there anything else we can do?
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Postby HappyChick » November 24th, 2009, 4:53 pm

I'd at least take the poor thing some food and water. Tough $hit if Animal Control doesn't like you feeding the dog! I do not say this with any legalities in mind, it just seems like the right thing to do IMO.

Actually, if it was HERE I'd just go get the dog with a police officer present to witness that the dog wasn't stolen and make sure my contact information was on file with the authorities. BUT I'm not in Rochester, NY either...

Good LUCK, I hope you can help the poor thing.
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Postby Marinepits » November 24th, 2009, 5:49 pm

As a former ACO, I can tell you what I would have done in this situation: the report comes in of an abandoned animal. By law, I am obligated to make *sure* that the animal is actually abandoned. I leave a series of notices on the door over the period of 72 hours. If the animal lacks food/water, I will give the animal some at each visit. If the animal lacks shelter, I will provide some by leaving a dog house, crate, whatever I have available. If I am NOT contacted by the owner(s) of the animal in that 72 hour time frame, then the animal is LEGALLY abandoned and I can then seize the animal. That would be all the evidence I need that the animal is abandoned -- no food, water, shelter, owner contact over 72 hours. That does NOT mean that I let the animal starve over the 72 hour time period.

In some states, the time frame may be a week or even ten days. During that time, if the ACO is doing his/her job properly, the animal WILL be checked on every day. Evidence will be gathered every day in the form of a report detailing the visits and time frames, the lack of care, photos of conditions where animal resides, whether or not the ACO had to provide food/water/shelter, any sightings by neighbours of an owner or caretaker, whether the notices had been removed or not, etc etc. During this time, the landlord and neighbours will also be interviewed and the ACO will drive by at different times every day to see if they can catch anyone at home. (I've been known to have the local PD drive by in the middle of the night to see if an owner is home.)

By all means, feel free to keep in contact with the ACO and/or Animal Cruelty Investigators. Please don't "queer" the case by taking the law into your own hands -- the more you get involved and visit the property, the less of a chance the ACOs have of prosecuting the case. Work WITH your local ACO and Investigators by offering to help, but don't go off half-cocked and start giving the dog food or providing anything else -- that will have to go into a report that the ACO has found food on the property and that lessens the chance of a neglect case "sticking". If the ACO sees that someone is providing any kind of care, then the dog can't necessarily be proven to be "neglected" or "abandoned".
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Postby airwalk » November 24th, 2009, 6:06 pm

Precisely Jen, sounds as if something may have gotten lost in the translation. I can only speak for us, but we would not permit the animal to go without food, water or shelter and would visit at least every other day if not daily (depends on the circumstances). We would make notation of the conditions on each visit and have to post for at least 72 hours and attempt contact with the owners.

Jen gave excellent information. Stay in contact with the ACO / Cruelty folks but don't "queer" their case by doing something that makes prosecution impossible.

I know it sounds wierd, but you must remember in most states dogs are considered property - maybe property with special conditions - but property nonetheless.
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Postby Jodi » November 24th, 2009, 7:04 pm

Thanks guys-

yes, I totally understand what you are saying and it makes sense to me. Jeremy wasn't given any of this information (that the ACO would be visiting, bringing food, making reports etc), however I don't know if that means it will or won't be happening.

I also understand about needing hard evidence that the dog is being neglected/abandoned. I believe that was what Jeremy was told also-that the ACO legally needed eviction notice papers in his hand in order to do anything. makes sense. I guess the only upsetting part was that he said to 'leave the dog' until the animal cruelty people came so that the "owner" could be prosecuted due to neglect. Perhaps it wasn't necessarily what he meant-maybe he meant all along that they would be checking on the dog and doing the things you describe along the way. That sounds more likely.

I don't know-the way it was explained just didn't make sense to me (that they would just leave him there). The ACO suggested Jeremy get some hot dogs to throw into the dog...but it sounds like AC should be the ones doing the feeding?

We will not be interfering, just waiting to hear back from AC. Thanks all for your input-I appreciate it!
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Postby amazincc » November 24th, 2009, 7:47 pm

Jodi wrote: The ACO suggested Jeremy get some hot dogs to throw into the dog...but it sounds like AC should be the ones doing the feeding?


I know that the law is the law is the law, but that just sounds "wrong". :sad2: :nono:
If it was me I'd get some half decent dog food instead of hot dogs. I would also document when and what I feed the dog, save receipts for anything I spend on his behalf, and probably bug the crap out of the ACO at least once a day.
Is there any heat in that apartment? Does he go to the bathroom inside? :shock:
Even three days sounds like a long damned time to leave that poor boy on his own. :bs:
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Postby Jodi » November 24th, 2009, 8:54 pm

amazincc wrote:
Jodi wrote: The ACO suggested Jeremy get some hot dogs to throw into the dog...but it sounds like AC should be the ones doing the feeding?


I know that the law is the law is the law, but that just sounds "wrong". :sad2: :nono:
If it was me I'd get some half decent dog food instead of hot dogs. I would also document when and what I feed the dog, save receipts for anything I spend on his behalf, and probably bug the crap out of the ACO at least once a day.
Is there any heat in that apartment? Does he go to the bathroom inside? :shock:
Even three days sounds like a long damned time to leave that poor boy on his own. :bs:


I know, I feel so sad at the thought of him being all alone too :( That sounds like a good plan. I know the ACO gave Jeremy his cell number, so I will tell him to call tomorrow to get more details on what their plan is. Don't know about heat in the apt, but am assuming he is going to the bathroom inside.

I guess the previous tenant was evicted and some sketchy neighbors approached Jeremy and said that he goes back in there every once in a while to "get some stuff". I assume he is breaking in since he was evicted-this is in a pretty bad section of Rochester. Jeremy is a bit nervous to go back there to do anything with the dog since the scary neighbors said they are "friends" with this guy...he doesn't want any problems.

Man this has become complicated! Again I appreciate all the advice. I will still see to it that we call and find out the progress and somehow make sure he is getting food and water.

Thanks :)
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Postby LaylaWoobie » November 24th, 2009, 10:28 pm

Hey everyone it's josh. I'm with the SPCA Law Enforcement Dept. in Monroe County If I'm guessing correct this address is on Michigan St? I spoke with the animal control officer today. We will have someone out there on Wednesday. From the info I have the dog is in good body condition and not in distress.

As long as the dog is not in distress we will follow our procedures. Honestly we get these all the time. The dog won't be forgotten about. Usually the easiest way to take care of this is to contact the landlord and just have him sign the dog over. If that doesn't happen we it usually takes about 72 hours to get the dog out. You have to attempt to make contact with the dog owner etc. Basically a cover your butt paper trail. Problem is once the house is tagged the dog will disappear and just be moved to some other vacant or basement(sad reality is LE has their hands tied and it puts us behind the eight ball)

One of the biggest problems is soooooooo many landlords in the city have no leases or correct info on their tenants and really have no clue who's living in the apt. So a proper "legal" eviction never takes place. We are too busy to invest time trying to locate these people ad will usually close out the job after we get the dog out safely and legally.

I've been doing this job for five years and in my opinion 85% of pitbulls in The City don't make it to 24 months of age. The situation you are talking about is actually a lucky dog(many are never reported). Even if the dog is removed odds are it will fail a temp test and not make it into a home anyway. But I guess that's better than starving to death.

Anyway if it's the correct address we know about it and if it isn't then let me know and I'll get someone on it.

Josh
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Postby Jodi » November 24th, 2009, 11:13 pm

Great-thanks. That is the correct address!
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Postby kera09 » November 24th, 2009, 11:32 pm

soo if this is a pit bull in the city, he/she will have no chance at life,bc verona st WILL NOT adopt out pit bulls, not even to a rescue! If it was me i would go steal it, and if i had the room i would! poor dog!
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Postby LaylaWoobie » November 24th, 2009, 11:47 pm

Rochester Animal Services(Verona St) which is run by the City of Rochester has a blanket policy on Pits and pit mixes. They do not adopt out. The Humane Society(Lollypop Farm) Does not have a policy like that.

With that being said most pits don't make it up for adoption. Most are failed on the "food" or "raw hide" "toy" or "dog aggression" . There are way more pits that come in that can be placed. Many do have severe behavior issues created by shi**y owners. However many that are just true to the "standard" wont make it.

The sad reality is there are so many of these dogs in the city that the odds are stacked against them. You see idiots all over with their coat pockets stuffed with 3 week old pups trying to make a few bucks selling them before they die.

Parvo is rampant and dogs die all the time. It's a problem that runs so deep. I mean you should see how people treat their own chlidren......they could give a f**k about their dogs.

I've arrested people who have totally starved a dog to the pont where it can't even stand but there is a 80,000 dollar car with 10,000 rims sitting in the driveway. That's just the way it is. Until you see it, you wouldn't believe it.

I had a lady tell me the other day she wanted to get a distemper shot so the dog would stop being aggressive.................
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Postby kera09 » November 24th, 2009, 11:55 pm

people are idiots! but because we dont have bsl here pit bulls and pit bull mixes should be given a chance. If they pass a temp test (by someone on the outside) should be allowed to go into a rescue.
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Postby LaylaWoobie » November 25th, 2009, 12:06 am

In a perfect world sure. But there are far too many dogs that come into our shelter alone to place in rescue. Again that's just the reality. I would love to put all these dogs somewhere....but where.

I tried to place(officially through my dept.) the absolute worst collar job Iv'e ever seen with several rescues including Best Friends. It had some serious behavior issues due to it's life but had heart and was a nice dog.......Sorry we are full. There are certain liability issues with placing dogs so they just can't be placed with anyone.

The reality is that most organizations like HSUS and other "animal welfare groups" only care about dogs like these if they can be used for fundraising(VIck).

So where do we go with all these dogs.......There is no place for 95% of them. Sucks but that's the way it is. The dog is a victim of the culture that surrounds it.

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Postby airwalk » November 25th, 2009, 12:26 am

LaylaWoobie wrote:In a perfect world sure. But there are far too many dogs that come into our shelter alone to place in rescue. Again that's just the reality. I would love to put all these dogs somewhere....but where.

I tried to place(officially through my dept.) the absolute worst collar job Iv'e ever seen with several rescues including Best Friends. It had some serious behavior issues due to it's life but had heart and was a nice dog.......Sorry we are full. There are certain liability issues with placing dogs so they just can't be placed with anyone.

The reality is that most organizations like HSUS and other "animal welfare groups" only care about dogs like these if they can be used for fundraising(VIck).

So where do we go with all these dogs.......There is no place for 95% of them. Sucks but that's the way it is. The dog is a victim of the culture that surrounds it.

Josh


unfortunately everyone Josh is giving your the straight skinny. Those of us in the field, don't like it any better than you do and we keep trying to find space, opportunity, change....but the reality is there are simply more dogs than there are available homes...there are so many restrictions on the bull breeds that sometimes placing is impossible.

While it's not good...better to save the very best of the best that you can and celebrate those than go home at night hating yourself and your job because you can't save every dog. As you all know...not every dog should be saved and frankly if this dog is on the radar it probably is one of the lucky ones. At least someone reported it and someone can watch and someone can get it out safely....that is far better than many.
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Postby Marinepits » November 25th, 2009, 12:28 am

airwalk wrote:While it's not good...better to save the very best of the best that you can and celebrate those than go home at night hating yourself and your job because you can't save every dog. As you all know...not every dog should be saved and frankly if this dog is on the radar it probably is one of the lucky ones. At least someone reported it and someone can watch and someone can get it out safely....that is far better than many.


Amen, Diana.
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Postby Jodi » November 25th, 2009, 9:04 am

airwalk wrote:
LaylaWoobie wrote:In a perfect world sure. But there are far too many dogs that come into our shelter alone to place in rescue. Again that's just the reality. I would love to put all these dogs somewhere....but where.

I tried to place(officially through my dept.) the absolute worst collar job Iv'e ever seen with several rescues including Best Friends. It had some serious behavior issues due to it's life but had heart and was a nice dog.......Sorry we are full. There are certain liability issues with placing dogs so they just can't be placed with anyone.

The reality is that most organizations like HSUS and other "animal welfare groups" only care about dogs like these if they can be used for fundraising(VIck).

So where do we go with all these dogs.......There is no place for 95% of them. Sucks but that's the way it is. The dog is a victim of the culture that surrounds it.

Josh


unfortunately everyone Josh is giving your the straight skinny. Those of us in the field, don't like it any better than you do and we keep trying to find space, opportunity, change....but the reality is there are simply more dogs than there are available homes...there are so many restrictions on the bull breeds that sometimes placing is impossible.

While it's not good...better to save the very best of the best that you can and celebrate those than go home at night hating yourself and your job because you can't save every dog. As you all know...not every dog should be saved and frankly if this dog is on the radar it probably is one of the lucky ones. At least someone reported it and someone can watch and someone can get it out safely....that is far better than many.



The reality of it sucks. I'm sure it's so hard for you guys out there seeing it on a daily basis-I couldn't deal with it. Sometimes I have to push the thought of it out of my head or I'm afraid I would be crying all the time.

Josh-I can't even begin to imagine what you have to deal with daily...thanks for helping in the ways that you can.

So, if a dog's chances are better at Lollypop (even though still slim I am sure...) should we just take any abandoned/stray dogs there next time? I have done that before...I don't want to be caught "stealing" but at the same time if we know the dog has been left for a long time-is that the "right" thing to do? Jeremy sees them ALL the time...
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Postby LMM » November 25th, 2009, 10:24 am

This whole conversation makes me sad and frustrates me simultaneously. Not what people just the entire situation. I hope this dog is alright.

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Postby Jodi » November 25th, 2009, 1:01 pm

Not sure if this matters or helps in any way, but the Landlord of the house on Michgan Street left the eviction paperwork there and is taping it to the inside of the window.
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Postby Miss_Pits » November 25th, 2009, 4:48 pm

That's so sad. Michigan St is only about a block away from me :cry:


Off topic - Hey Josh! I work at Webster Vet Clinic - Myron and Toni say hi :wave2:
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