Pit Bulls Are Serial Killers?

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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 11:18 am

I've been following a thread on training board and this was posted on a LOOOONG thread related to pits.

Just wondering what your thoughts are the post below


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Postby pitbullmamaliz » November 10th, 2009, 12:03 pm

Oh Matt, that entire thread is just getting my panties in a twist. Especially that ignorant twat who started it all by flat out saying that pits really will just snap the majority of the time. >(
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 1:27 pm

maberi wrote:To me the most interesting genetic question of all is what would
happen if we bred these dogs for low dog aggression, low gameness
and high human friendliness and tolerance. How different would they
look in ten generations? How well would the human tolerance and
friendliness hold up if gameness were totally, ruthlessly culled? How
linked are these traits?

It's an experiment I wish someone would try.


Ok, what board?

And is that person going to breed 10 generations of dogs and keep them all and see how those traits are linked?

Tell her/him to go play Dr. Frankenstein with a different breed. :rolleyes2:

I do think it is absolutely critical to understand that "the thing
that goes wrong with pit bulls" is different from "normal" dog
aggression, that it is real, and that it is not simply created in
individual blank slate dogs by bad owners.

Give me a break. What is the difference between Pit Bull dog aggression and "normal" dog aggression? It's either dog aggression or it isn't.
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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 1:28 pm

A clicker solutions yahoo board

Probably not one you would find yourself on :wink:
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Postby Malli » November 10th, 2009, 1:54 pm

mnp13 wrote:
I do think it is absolutely critical to understand that "the thing
that goes wrong with pit bulls" is different from "normal" dog
aggression, that it is real, and that it is not simply created in
individual blank slate dogs by bad owners.

Give me a break. What is the difference between Pit Bull dog aggression and "normal" dog aggression? It's either dog aggression or it isn't.


Um, yeah, there are lots of other breeds of dogs that exhibit severe and true DA, I work with one of them. And they have absolutely no relation to Pit Bulls other then that the two are both Canis Lupus familiaris.
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 3:00 pm

maberi wrote:A clicker solutions yahoo board

Probably not one you would find yourself on :wink:


Oh I don't know, I'm a member of AgBeh, and that one is oh-so-special. Check it out sometime.
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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 3:10 pm

Ha, I'm sure they have the same informative information about pit bull aggression on there as well
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 3:56 pm

maberi wrote:Ha, I'm sure they have the same informative information about pit bull aggression on there as well


Oh yes, and the lady who runs it even corrects posts for grammar and punctuation. She has a fantastic website. :rolleyes2:
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Postby BigDogBuford » November 10th, 2009, 4:15 pm

People are dumb, mmmmmkay?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » November 10th, 2009, 5:04 pm

This is a recent quote from the woman who started the discussion:

The people here who have PB-type dogs are clearly concerned that at some point their dogs might be put down under some kind of BSL. So I wonder where the concern is for the people who have carried their Goofy family dog home dead from the walk? And for all the Goofys? I wonder whether PB-fans understand that other people love their dogs too. I'd like to know why they feel justified in using other people's dogs as experimental material re whether their fighting/baiting breed will attack this time or wait til some other time -- or maybe never, but you don't know that until it dies, and meanwhile you are experimenting with other people's dogs and other dogs' lives. Why do you think this is okay?


And Matt, you're my hero taking all of them on! I didn't even know where to start!
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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 5:12 pm

I never get involved in these types of discussions. I think the fact that I have the flu and can't see straight may have something to do with it

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Postby TheRedQueen » November 10th, 2009, 5:57 pm

The original post that you posted, Matt, has some interesting thoughts...if you can stop focusing on the "breeding" portion of it. There is something to the idea that these dogs have been bred to stop reading social signals...and there are some very good points in the discussion. Doesn't seem right to post only a fraction of the postings... :|
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 6:28 pm

I just got approved to post....

:wave2:
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Postby BigDogBuford » November 10th, 2009, 6:32 pm

mnp13 wrote:I just got approved to post....

:wave2:


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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 6:59 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:The original post that you posted, Matt, has some interesting thoughts...if you can stop focusing on the "breeding" portion of it. There is something to the idea that these dogs have been bred to stop reading social signals...and there are some very good points in the discussion. Doesn't seem right to post only a fraction of the postings... :|


Erin, had I posted that entire posting as you well know it would take up half the forum. My intention was not to take that posting out of context if that is what you are getting at.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 10th, 2009, 7:04 pm

There have been some really good points made in this discussion...and it's sounding like everyone is anti-pit bull on that list now. That's all I'm saying. It was a tad inflammatory imho...since everyone here is getting pissed off because a portion of the discussion. :|

And seriously...you guys don't think that pit bulls have different aggressive tendencies bred into them? Really? They're bred to fight each other to the death...similar to other breeds/types of dogs that are bred to fight prey animals, but different. Going back to the video of Riggs that always gets brought up...he shows very few signals that he's ready/willing/able to fight...that's not something you see as much in other breeds. That's just how they are, nothing WRONG with that, but what's wrong about discussing that particular trait?
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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Erin, what is comical about that whole post is it started with someone who wanted to adopt a pit bull and turned into pit bulls have similar traits as serial killers. What I also find comical is that the people giving advice on the breed have never owned a pit bull and are advising potential adopters on what they can expect.

I don't think anyone is denying many pits have am extreme amount of dog aggression bred into them that you don't see in many other breeds but some of the comments in that thread are nauseating (and I didn't post those).

TheRedQueen wrote:There have been some really good points made in this discussion...and it's sounding like everyone is anti-pit bull on that list now. That's all I'm saying. It was a tad inflammatory imho...since everyone here is getting pissed off because a portion of the discussion. :|

And seriously...you guys don't think that pit bulls have different aggressive tendencies bred into them? Really? They're bred to fight each other to the death...similar to other breeds/types of dogs that are bred to fight prey animals, but different. Going back to the video of Riggs that always gets brought up...he shows very few signals that he's ready/willing/able to fight...that's not something you see as much in other breeds. That's just how they are, nothing WRONG with that, but what's wrong about discussing that particular trait?
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 8:05 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:And seriously...you guys don't think that pit bulls have different aggressive tendencies bred into them? Really? They're bred to fight each other to the death...similar to other breeds/types of dogs that are bred to fight prey animals, but different. Going back to the video of Riggs that always gets brought up...he shows very few signals that he's ready/willing/able to fight...that's not something you see as much in other breeds. That's just how they are, nothing WRONG with that, but what's wrong about discussing that particular trait?


There's nothing wrong with discussing the trait... there is something wrong with saying that there is something wrong with the trait itself.

They definitely have different body language in dog-aggression circumstances, and that should be discussed. However, that discussion has veered to the side of "what's wrong with the breed" which is not quite the same thing.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 10th, 2009, 8:08 pm

I just think it's a reasonable discussion on a well-moderated list...that just happens to be talking about pit bulls...this list talks about all sorts of dogs/breeds. :| It's not like there is a ton of pit bull bashing going on. Sure, there are idiotic comments, but for the most part, it's a good discussion, imho.
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Postby maberi » November 10th, 2009, 8:17 pm

And the reason I decided to post the original comments (author intentionally NOT included so no one would have to defend themselves), was because it was an insightful post, with some interesting points. I also felt it was written in a way that wouldn't be taken out of context based on some of the other nutty posts on there.

Just like you are quick to defend when someone points out all of the "problems" with clicker training, I am naturally quick to defend pit bulls when a group of people take a thread completely off topic and spend days pointing out the "bad things" with pits.
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