How to register my dog?

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Postby redfish » November 8th, 2009, 2:09 am

Hello,

First real post! Oh my. I am wondering how do I register my dog to the AKC & UKC as an American Staffordshire Terrier so I can compete with her in events down the road? I do know that she is a purebred bully, but her parents have no paperwork. I'm also aware that I can't register her with UKC as an APBT as that will disqualify me from registering her with AKC (leaving Lotus out of AKC events).

So, on the AKC website, do I register her as a "Mixed Breed"? Which I am 98% sure she is not a mix. Or, do I go through the process of registering her under the "Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP)" or "Open Registration"?

This AKC stuff is new to me, so hoping for someone to be able to point me in the right direction.

Also, how should I go about registering her through the UKC? Limited Registration ...? or ... I want to make sure I do this right since I am pretty sure I'll only have the chance to do it once.

Thank you in advance!
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Postby katiek0417 » November 8th, 2009, 8:47 am

Is she fixed? Or will she be fixed?
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Postby mnp13 » November 8th, 2009, 11:40 am

Like Katrina said, you can't register in either if she's not fixed. I'm not sure about the AKC doing that stuff with the APBT/AmStaff, since the very basis of the AmStaff registry is the UKC APBT. You might want to call them and ask. I know about the controversy with some of the other breeds though (Aussies I think?)

If not, yes, just do the AKC mixed breed registry, and either the UKC AMBOR or the UKC ILP.
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Postby katiek0417 » November 8th, 2009, 11:58 am

mnp13 wrote:Like Katrina said, you can't register in either if she's not fixed. I'm not sure about the AKC doing that stuff with the APBT/AmStaff, since the very basis of the AmStaff registry is the UKC APBT. You might want to call them and ask. I know about the controversy with some of the other breeds though (Aussies I think?)

If not, yes, just do the AKC mixed breed registry, and either the UKC AMBOR or the UKC ILP.


Yeah, sorry...that's what I was getting at...I just figured I'd ask the question first! lol
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Postby redfish » November 8th, 2009, 12:40 pm

I know she can't be registered until she is fixed, sorry, I should have clarified that part. Trust me, I want nothing to do with heat cycles, puppies, or the other things that come with intact dogs period. lol She has a date with the surgeon @ 6 months after all her vaccines are finished (she's only 3 months right now, way too young IMO). I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row so I am prepared when she is.

I was reading that you can single register a purebred dog who's parents have never been registered to either the AKC or UKC as long as you submit two photos (1 profile, and 1 head closeup, both in color), and of course they have to be spayed/neutered. Seems like the only pit bull breed both organizations recognize is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (not Am Staff, my mistake).

I'm wondering if I should do that?
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Postby mnp13 » November 8th, 2009, 2:05 pm

That's what I was talking about before - the whole "not the same breed" thing doesn't apply to APBT/AmStaff. It really can't, considering 1. the AmStaff studbook is UKC APBTs and 2. many dogs are fully dual registered.

After the agility nationals last year it became a big issue involving a dog named Willow. I'll find the articles.
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Postby redfish » November 8th, 2009, 6:46 pm

That's kind of why I want to make sure I register her both with AKC & UKC as the same breed (Staffordshire Bull Terrier - again, my mistake with the AmStaff), so there is no confusion or disqualifications down the line. I know the whole bully breed thing at the moment is a little weird and messed up, considering they really hard to distinguish, and some feel they are all the "same breed", APBT, AmStaff, Staffy, etc. Very confusing for all, including myself, who is by no means a breed expert of any sort! hehe

I found this article on AKC ILP - http://www.dogster.com/forums/Sports_an ... ead/537144. Is this what you are referring to?

If so, I am positive both of Lotus' parents are not registered under any organization. I am hoping this is a possibility, if not, I will have to register her as a mixed breed I presume. I am just worried that mixed breed registration will limit her participation in events.
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » November 10th, 2009, 12:38 am

I think you would be better off staying away from double registering as a staffordshire bull terrier. If you are trying to make it believable what your dogs breed is then probably the AmStaff or APBT is the way to go. Staffies are very small and have a very different look then what your puppy looks like it is going to grow into. If you haven't already looked here is the website of the AKC describing Staffies:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire ... /index.cfm

And this was a purebred Staffie that we fostered not too long ago
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Postby mnp13 » November 10th, 2009, 12:28 pm

Yes, that's the issue involving Willow that I was referring to.

The AKC is going to start allowing mixed breeds to compete starting next year, but not all trials will have classes for them, and their titles will be different. I would go with registering her as an AmStaff/APBT. I can't imagine the "different breed" issue will end up affecting our breed, since they are the same lines.

For example, Riggs is Tacoma on top, Tacoma is an original foundation line in the AKC stud books. His bottom lines are later additions, but Tacoma is at the beginning. How can they claim that he is not "really" an AmStaff because he's also registered as an APBT under the same lines that created him as an AmStaff.

This is a really different issue than what they are dealing with with Willow and other dogs like her. She's registered as a "pure bred Mini Aussie" (or whatever) with one registry but ILP'd as a pure bred Aussie with AKC, and that's where the problem is coming in. Unlike the AmStaff/APBT where the studbooks overlap, it's a whole different line and pedigree. As I understand it, Willow is actually fully pedigreed and fully registered, they know what she is.

In any case, I really think it's a big case of sour grapes. :bs: Someone at AKC ILP'd her, and she beats the pants off of the other Aussies so they went and bitched. Waaaaaaaa We can't beat her so we'll get her kicked out. Grow up and go train. I get beat in trials... a lot. I get beat because my training is lacking, not for any other reason, but to hear some people :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:

It's just like not letting the "mutts" compete directly with the pure breeds in performance, uh oh, you might not win! That's why I think altered dogs should be able to show in breed, and take ribbons, and therefore take points as well. Since siblings and parents are also taken into consideration when someone thinks about breeding, even altered dogs should be able to be judged for their conformation.
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Postby redfish » November 11th, 2009, 12:14 am

Thank you for all your information! It's very helpful.

I will go about registering Lotus that way then in a few months, as a purebred AmStaff/APBT. Hoping I won't have any trouble. Thank you Dan & Bec. I know the Staffies are smaller than other pit bulls, but I had only met a couple in my days.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 11th, 2009, 12:34 am

mnp13 wrote:This is a really different issue than what they are dealing with with Willow and other dogs like her. She's registered as a "pure bred Mini Aussie" (or whatever) with one registry but ILP'd as a pure bred Aussie with AKC, and that's where the problem is coming in. Unlike the AmStaff/APBT where the studbooks overlap, it's a whole different line and pedigree. As I understand it, Willow is actually fully pedigreed and fully registered, they know what she is.

In any case, I really think it's a big case of sour grapes. :bs: Someone at AKC ILP'd her, and she beats the pants off of the other Aussies so they went and bitched. Waaaaaaaa We can't beat her so we'll get her kicked out. Grow up and go train. I get beat in trials... a lot. I get beat because my training is lacking, not for any other reason, but to hear some people :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:


I have quite a few friends that have dual registered Aussie/mini Aussies...because to compete in AKC, they must be Aussies. The minis were developed from regular-sized Aussies, so there is some in-breeding stuff going on there.
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Postby Rolex+Deebo » November 11th, 2009, 4:35 pm

hi,
get the ILP with the AKC as a AST.
when you fill the papes out, do not mention any other breeds. And where it asks why you think she is an AST, say that your Vet, and you Trainer say thats what she is.
Thats how I got a ILP for my UKC reg. APBT.
Once you have the AKC ILP
Do the same with the UKC as a APBT.
I know alot of people that have done it with their rescues.
Good luck :wave2:
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