Breaking up Dog Fights

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Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 1:28 pm

dogtvcom wrote:Waitaminnit, I didn't DECIDE to make such a video. A fight happened, and then I made a video.

Not quite. You set your dogs up to have a fight to further your own ego as a "dog expert." And speaking of your self proclaimed "expert" status, I am removing that from your profile. Put it back and you'll find yourself banned.

I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.

And we do the same. We have watched your actions on your videos, and read your words on your website and here - and by and large, most of the members don't seem all that impressed. Earlier in this thread (or maybe it was the other one) you said something to the effect of "this turned out how I expect it to." Which, frankly, is laughable. You expected to show up on this forum, call yourself an expert, show us videos and have a few dozen members call you out and tell you that you have no idea what you are doing? That's what you expected?? Really? Riiiiiight. No. You expected us to be amazed by you, and to hang on your every word and to beg you to tell us more and to wait for your next video with baited breath. Sorry, not gonna happen.

There are a number of members who have posted training videos, myself included, and I've received a lot of positive and negative feedback. I learn from that. Actually, I posted a link to a video that Liz, Demo and I made last year with Inara and Riggs - which is specifically about dog aggression and body language. I noticed that you didn't bother to comment about that video at all, though since you think you are an expert, you should have had plenty of input there.

If you want to be a productive member of this forum, you are welcome to stay. If you want to hang around and make snide remarks and cause trouble, take a hike. Everyone has something to contribute, but you have done nothing so far but avoid direct questions and get defensive about what you did in that video.

So, start being productive or go away. Your choice, but make it in the immediate future or I'll be making it for you.
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 1:40 pm

If you want to be a productive member of this forum, you are welcome to stay. If you want to hang around and make snide remarks and cause trouble, take a hike. Everyone has something to contribute, but you have done nothing so far but avoid direct questions and get defensive about what you did in that video.

So, start being productive or go away. Your choice, but make it in the immediate future or I'll be making it for you.


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Postby kera09 » October 29th, 2009, 2:06 pm

woweee, thats all i have to add!
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 2:17 pm

mnp13 wrote:
dogtvcom wrote:Waitaminnit, I didn't DECIDE to make such a video. A fight happened, and then I made a video.

Not quite. You set your dogs up to have a fight to further your own ego as a "dog expert." And speaking of your self proclaimed "expert" status, I am removing that from your profile. Put it back and you'll find yourself banned.

I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.

And we do the same. We have watched your actions on your videos, and read your words on your website and here - and by and large, most of the members don't seem all that impressed. Earlier in this thread (or maybe it was the other one) you said something to the effect of "this turned out how I expect it to." Which, frankly, is laughable. You expected to show up on this forum, call yourself an expert, show us videos and have a few dozen members call you out and tell you that you have no idea what you are doing? That's what you expected?? Really? Riiiiiight. No. You expected us to be amazed by you, and to hang on your every word and to beg you to tell us more and to wait for your next video with baited breath. Sorry, not gonna happen.

There are a number of members who have posted training videos, myself included, and I've received a lot of positive and negative feedback. I learn from that. Actually, I posted a link to a video that Liz, Demo and I made last year with Inara and Riggs - which is specifically about dog aggression and body language. I noticed that you didn't bother to comment about that video at all, though since you think you are an expert, you should have had plenty of input there.

If you want to be a productive member of this forum, you are welcome to stay. If you want to hang around and make snide remarks and cause trouble, take a hike. Everyone has something to contribute, but you have done nothing so far but avoid direct questions and get defensive about what you did in that video.

So, start being productive or go away. Your choice, but make it in the immediate future or I'll be making it for you.


If you can control your human aggression and stop attacking me, then I won't have to defend myself and I can take a look at your video. You have a human aggression problem. You are hyper and hypo critical. I guess, as the forum owner you think it is your right to unleash unlimited criticism, but you can't take a little back in your direction?

If you give up the fight and ban me, well, I guess you'll be using the crate and rotate method or you'll be dropping me off at the pound.

I think I'm already being censored because my last post didn't show up.

Look, if I stay here, I'm gonna be me. If you can't handle me, then the choice really is yours.

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Postby SvcDogSawyer » October 29th, 2009, 2:20 pm


Hello Erin,

:GoMods:

You seem like one of the more level headed and reasonable people here.

I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.

So you be Erin and I'll be Michael and Michelle can be Michelle, and you can fondle any boobies or guns you want. Let's all have fun here :mrgreen:

mp


I don't think Erin is going to be that level headed after she reads this.

Again, what makes you a dog expert? I've had Service Dogs for the last 14 years, so does that make me an expert on Service Dogs? Absolutely not. I've rebuilt 2 old cars, I don't call myself an expert on those 2 cars, I know a hell of a lot, but not everything there is to know. Are you even a dog trainer? I really hate to say it but Caesar Milan doesn't even call himself an expert as far as I know.

If we are to judge you by your words then I'd have to say.....Dude you need a breath mint cause your talking out of your ass. :mrgreen:
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Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 2:33 pm

dogtvcom wrote:If you can control your human aggression and stop attacking me, then I won't have to defend myself and I can take a look at your video. You have a human aggression problem. You are hyper and hypo critical. I guess, as the forum owner you think it is your right to unleash unlimited criticism, but you can't take a little back in your direction?

Attack? You haven't seen me attack yet.

You have yet to have any reason to be critical of me, you don't know me or know anything about me. You put up a few posts, you put up a video and myself and a number of members evaluated them... and funny enough ALL OF US came to the EXACT same conclusions on them. If you bother to look around the forum, you might notice that it is very very rare for this many of us to agree on anything. I think dog parks were the last thing that we managed to band together on. Before that, I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

If you give up the fight and ban me, well, I guess you'll be using the crate and rotate method or you'll be dropping me off at the pound.

I don't ban people lightly. In 3 and a half years we've banned less than a dozen people. You have to work to be banned. You are putting in a lot of effort.

There isn't a "fight" to give up on. You have yet to discuss much - there are a LOT of direct questions in this thread, but very few answers so far. How about you start there? Stop the banter and start actual discourse on what you did in the video and why you did it. Between this thread and the other one, you will be quite busy just doing that... and that is being productive.

I think I'm already being censored because my last post didn't show up.

I haven't censored anyone, and I just checked the staff room, and since there isn't a post there stating that any staff member censored you they haven't done so either. So you weren't. We don't screw with people's posts lightly.

Look, if I stay here, I'm gonna be me. If you can't handle me, then the choice really is yours.

Be "you" all you want, I said be productive or be elsewhere.
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 2:39 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:
dogtvcom wrote:I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.


Alright, so you have no training or any other credentials then. Would have been easier to say that from the beginning. Though I guess it's tough to be the dog expert when people know you're just bs'ing them.

And just for the record, Erin isn't a mod here. Those of us with red names are staff members. But yes, Erin is extremely level-headed.



You know what I feel Like pitbullmammaliz,

I feel like Brady Quinn,

Nobody has given me a chance to succeed.

I've shown my wit, speed and atheticism in that video and now you all want to put me on the bench.

I may request a trade.


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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 29th, 2009, 2:51 pm

dogtvcom wrote:Nobody has given me a chance to succeed.


We've given you dozens of chances to succeed and you keep dancing around making snide comments and completely avoiding the questions. Want a chance to succeed? Here, answer these:

1. What is your background/training/experience?
2. If you know Kwame is going to resource guard, why do you set him and Jackie up for failure?

If you read around a bit, you'll see that some of this forum's most heated discussions take place between trainers of different ideologies. Each side has his/her supporters and other members who train the same way. We have nothing against people with differing ideas, as long as they have the knowledge/training to back it up. Erin and Demo used to be at each other's throats, but they still had respect for the other's experiences that led them to their own conclusions. Am I making sense? Part of our whole problem is you are SO incredibly evasive about yourself. You call yourself the dog expert and the smartest guy in the room, but we don't know WHY. You're cocky, not confident.
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Postby LMM » October 29th, 2009, 2:55 pm

dogtvcom wrote:
I've shown my wit, speed and atheticism in that video and now you all want to put me on the bench.


Oh for the love.....are you serious? You haven't shown anything on your video that quite a few of us haven't done ourselves. You don't see any of us breaking our arms trying to pat ourselves on the back or open up shop as resident experts.

What you see as wit, I see as someone who is very bitter that Cesar has a show and you don't. If you mentioned the Dog Whisperer and his 20,000 shows one more time, I'm afraid you would have seen real human aggression. From me.

I would really like to see you address some of the questions that have been posed to you instead of all this unfunny, and quite embarrassing to be perfectly honest, posturing.
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Postby Pit♥bull » October 29th, 2009, 3:06 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:What a line of bullshit... Seems you've had your domain since '98 and I suspect all you are doing is spamming boards with your signature for higher Google ratings.
You'll notice he hasn't denied this. :x
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Postby amazincc » October 29th, 2009, 3:13 pm

dogtvcom wrote:

You know what I feel Like pitbullmammaliz,

I feel like Brady Quinn,

Nobody has given me a chance to succeed.

I've shown my wit, speed and atheticism in that video and now you all want to put me on the bench.

I may request a trade.


Join any reputable Pit Bull/dog forum, and you will get the same reception and responses.
I don't understand why you are being so antagonistic, Michael... no matter how you feel about the members here - you have to recognize by now that we all care deeply about our own and each others dogs.
Jackie being attacked made me cringe, as it did most of the people who commented on your video - I would urge you to consider different management techniques so that doesn't happen again.
Jackie is a beautiful girl, she seems to be very smart - and you are setting her up for failure. Maybe not intentionally... but you are starting to create a dog who will eventually want to retaliate in a big way if she keeps getting bullied.
My first Pit Bull was extremely fear-aggressive - partly due to genetics, partly due to what he experienced as a puppy, and partly due to poor/faulty management on my part. I am not proud of my role in helping to "create" a dog who wouldn't have hesitated to rip the face off a person without any prior warning.
Sometimes good intentions backfire, as they did in my case. However - when I joined PBT things changed for the better for my boy. I took my lumps at first, but I also received a lot of support, advice, and countless tips on how to be a better owner. I learned about dog body language and behavior, I learned about better management, I learned about training... you name it.
In the end my boy was able to receive five months of chemo therapy without injuring the people who administered the drugs once a week... and if you could've known my dog you would also know that it wasn't an easy feat by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm no expert/trainer/behaviorist by any means, but I happen to love dogs and it bothers me when someone handles things so willy-nilly without considering the long-term implications.
I think Jackie has tremendous potential to grow up into a well-mannered, well-trained dog who could be a lovely ambassador for our breed... I hope you are willing to give her that opportunity.
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Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 4:36 pm

Pit♥Bull wrote:
Pit♥Bull wrote:What a line of bullshit... Seems you've had your domain since '98 and I suspect all you are doing is spamming boards with your signature for higher Google ratings.
You'll notice he hasn't denied this. :x


Speaking of which - the link to that site may go in the "places to go" section, it does not belong at the end of every one of your posts. it may also be in your profile. thanks.
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 29th, 2009, 5:03 pm

dogtvcom wrote:
pitbull attacked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obMQTGt6iBk


No offense bro, no matter how you spin it, or how quick you reacted......that wasn't and was never going to be a fight.
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Postby fenella » October 29th, 2009, 7:24 pm

:trollDance: :kissButt:
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 29th, 2009, 7:27 pm

Did someone steal the keys the asylum? We have gotten a few doosies lately. What kind of fresh hell is this???


Dude, want to see a dog fight? Bring one of your dogs to my house to meet Munkee. He will be MORE than happy to show you a REAL dog fight & I will be more than happy to show you how to REALLY break one up. He is a real APBT, in every sense of the word. He gets snarky with my little dog, he is HIGHLY DA with every other canine on the planet. There is no training it out of him or conditioning him. He is what he is. By the way, I am no dog expert, I am no pit bull expert.....I am just a highly experienced pit bull owner. Nothing about your video amused me, instead it made me sad for Jackie.
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 29th, 2009, 7:29 pm

Look, if I stay here, I'm gonna be me. If you can't handle me, then the choice really is yours


Don't make threats, they are not taken lightly here. If you are going to remain a member you will respect the board, it's rules and it's members. End of story.
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Postby kera09 » October 29th, 2009, 7:59 pm

i broke down and watched the video and honeslty i think you set that up and thats just wrong on all accounts!!!! i dont think you should own dogs, imtimidation with a basket ball? omg just go away and find new homes for your dogs already.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 29th, 2009, 10:44 pm

Michael wrote:
TheRedQueen wrote:Michael...what do you consider requirements for being an "expert''? I'm quite curious...as Demo said, the term doesn't quite mean what it used to mean.

The people I consider "experts" in their field have numerous years training not only dogs, but other types of animals...and the ones that I consider experts usually don't consider themselves as such. I was recently at a Kathy Sdao seminar (we all paid to listen to her talk...I consider her an "expert"...she's got many years of working with marine mammals, dogs, and other animals). She mentioned numerous times that she doesn't know everything, and mentioned that she has to ask researchers/scientists about stuff all of the time. She did not spend the entire time tooting her own horn, and when she was puzzled by something the participants mentioned, she told us that she was puzzled and wasn't sure...but told us what she thought was the likely reason.

She's got the credentials to back up calling herself an expert...that works for me.

What do you consider your credentials? I haven't seen anything about your training, schooling, experience so far. I don't normally question people's cred, but the fact that you're proclaiming yourself an expert makes me want to know more.

Though I don't really expect you to respond to this...you've been ignoring my posts to spar with Demo instead. :dance:


Hello Erin,

:GoMods:

You seem like one of the more level headed and reasonable people here.

I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.

So you be Erin and I'll be Michael and Michelle can be Michelle, and you can fondle any boobies or guns you want. Let's all have fun here :mrgreen:

mp


Hi Michael,

I'm not a mod...I'm a Welcome Wagger...I'm here to greet new folks and help them with the forum. We're all in orange...the first PM you got was from a WW. :)

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call myself level-headed, but I try hard. ;)

Anyways, the reason I was asking was honestly I wasn't all that impressed with your training* in the video, nor with anything I read on your website. (*And I'm actually not talking about the fighting/snarky part...I'm talking about the large amount of luring and finger snapping and lack of reading the dogs' body language.) :| Nothing jumped out at me that said "Expert". I'm sure people would have issues with some of the things I put on my website also, but I on the other hand, don't label myself an "Expert" either.

:wave2:

And yes, I'll continue to fondle anything I like...but I won't call myself an expert in fondling...I'm still learning.
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Postby Michael » October 30th, 2009, 12:44 pm

Hello Erin,

That's just goofing around in the backyard. I haven't been impressed with one person here either so no worries. Not impressed at all with the other thread on breaking up dog fights. Just reinforces everything that I already know. Most of you either never had to break up dog fights, or your dogs get ripped up because you use techniques that allows that to happen.

That's fine. No more comments on that subject.

My real specialty is offleash training.

I doubt many of you guys even try that. In the real world. Meaning not in a park or in your backyard.
You'll probably say it's too dangerous and irresponsible. Yada Yada blah blah blah

Jackie Brown is phenomenal. And so are my methods which don't rely on shock collars.

Stay tuned if you're interested.

mp
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 30th, 2009, 1:12 pm

Michael wrote:Hello Erin,

That's just goofing around in the backyard. I haven't been impressed with one person here either so no worries. Not impressed at all with the other thread on breaking up dog fights. Just reinforces everything that I already know. Most of you either never had to break up dog fights, or your dogs get ripped up because you use techniques that allows that to happen.

That's fine. No more comments on that subject.

My real specialty is offleash training.

I doubt many of you guys even try that. In the real world. Meaning not in a park or in your backyard.
You'll probably say it's too dangerous and irresponsible. Yada Yada blah blah blah

Jackie Brown is phenomenal. And so are my methods which don't rely on shock collars.

Stay tuned if you're interested.

mp


I also train off-leash...Liz, Michelle, Demo, Tina, Katrina, Jenn(Fenella), Sarah (Hundilein), and others can all testify that my dogs work mainly off-leash and do very well...yet I still don't call myself an expert. My dogs are rarely on-leash, and we go to MANY places outside of our yard. I don't rely on shock-collars...and I use clicker training and positive reinforcement. You're preaching to the wrong choir here. Back it up with some solid training videos, and I'll be impressed. All I'm seeing now is a lot of talk, without anything to back it up. :|
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