Different techniques to break up a fight

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby LMM » October 29th, 2009, 2:06 pm

I know we've discussed this before but I wanted to point out something specific because I am curious.

pitbullmamaliz wrote:That's a dumb way to break up a fight as well - that poor dog should've bitten him as he was being dragged around by his back legs.


It's shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MshyMYyRzpE

Now I know there are some self-proclaimed dog trainers out there who promote the wheelbarrow method to breaking up a fight. I've always dismissed it because it just seems like such a bad idea. All I can envision, whether it makes sense or not, is my dog whipping around to try and take a chunk out of me as I bend down to grab his back legs during a fight. So anyway, yes, I've just always dismissed it as a bad idea but I've never really known exactly why, although I can guess.

So why is this a bad idea?

What methods have worked for you? Do you think these are good methods or just something that works for your household??

I've never had a true dogfight at my house. Just snarkfests that are easily broken up with me bellowing out "AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" :x

My mom's house is quite a different story. When Molly went after Mojo, she was 100% serious about it. And while Mojo doesn't want to fight her, when she latched on, he was pretty serious about defending himself. I had to break up one of those fights and it was not fun. I did end up kicking the crap out of Molly (yes I feel bad about it now but did not at the time, I just wanted her OFF) and one kick was enough to lift her up by my foot so I could grab her collar while Mojo scampered away. Luckily Mojo was not 100% serious because while I did have a hold of Molly and she was still losing it, Mojo was quite happy to escape her. Had he wanted to go back in, I would have been at a loss as my mom isn't very much help in this department. And yes, they are now on strict crate and rotate.
User avatar
LMM
I'll Kick Your Ass
 
Posts: 1834
Location: Bitch please....

Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 29th, 2009, 2:13 pm

I've been fortunate that I've only had to break up snarks and scuffles, but from what I've read here and learned from talking to people is that one of the worst things you can do when two dogs are latched on to each other is try to pull them apart. That can do a ton of damage if they don't let go. Should Inara ever truly get into it, I'll choke her off - just twist her collar. If there is somebody else there I'll have them do the same to their dog. If it's just me, I'll take the extra minute and backtie one of the dogs, then choke off the other - that way once they're separated I'm in control of one and the other is tied.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby maberi » October 29th, 2009, 2:37 pm

In my experience (which is very limited so take it with a grain of salt) :wink:, dog fights are VERY different based on the breeds involved.

I think many reasons people suggest grabbing the back legs of dogs in a fight is because most breeds do a lot of biting and re-biting. Stick your hands anywhere near a collar in this type of fight and you usually get bitten (I have some nice scars on my left hand from this). I've seen dog fights broken up at the shelter by pulling the back legs, with water, pepper spray etc.. (note these were not pit bulls) and have also seen an old school 60 yr old construction worker use a 2x4 on two hunting dogs in a fight.

The few bully breed fights I have witnessed that escalated, turned into one dog getting the advantage over the other, gripping and shaking (no re-gripping involved). The few I have been involved in, I was able to grab the aggressor, immobilize their hind end using my legs (scissor locking) and lifting the dog up by the collar cutting off their air. Eventually they let go (seems like an eternity when it is happening).

I will say that the few fights I have been involved in there were other people there to help and the other breeds involved were not pits. I know what I would try to do with two pits if I were alone, but I honestly can't fathom how difficult it would be to actually separate two. I know when it is explained on the forum it often sounds easy, but when those bastards get going, it is far from easy to get a hold of them.

I think Michelle's advice about composing yourself for a few seconds before going in is SUPER advice. Sounds crazy to not just rush in when it is happening, but it really is the best thing you can do.

Just my opinion
Look beyond what your own eyes see
User avatar
maberi
I Save My Empty Calories For The Bottle
 
Posts: 2781
Location: rochester, ny

Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 2:39 pm

The only method I ever recommend is choking. A dog that can't breath can not bite, and anything can be used to choke the dog off, a leash, collar, belt, whatever.

If you have two people, straddle the dogs from behind to keep their bodies as still as possible, grab their collars and lift or twist. If you lift, you must both lift so that you are not causing more tearing if one of the dogs don't let go. At some point, lack of oxygen will do the work for you and drag the dogs away from each other and secure them.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 3:07 pm

I have never, or hope to high heaven that I never am faced with a dog fight. The snarkiness is enough for me. With that said when I take the dogs on their seperate walks I carry and extra leash around my neck for the very purpose that Michelle talks about. Of course I learned that here. I have a plan in my head if an off leash dog approaches and I am very observant of my surroundings. I almost always walk by myself so I have to have a plan if another dog and either of mine get into a fight. I have plenty of trees on either side of wear I walk. I have mailboxes that the posts are cemented into the ground so I know that they would be sturdy enough to tie one dog off and use the leash to choke the other one off.

I have been very fortunate that when I have run into off leash dogs I keep walking on the other side of the road and they have kept their distance with barking or posturing.

I always have my cell phone and if I think the risk of passing by is too great or the threat looks like something harmful I call Travis and tell him to come get me.

Remember I live out in the country and these are country dirt roads. Not very many people out to come running to help.
User avatar
madremissy
I have a basketball and I'm not afraid to use it.
 
Posts: 3786
Location: meansville, ga

Postby maberi » October 29th, 2009, 3:09 pm

One last comment from uncle Matt

Learn from my ignorance. The first time I tried to forcibly out Kayden I couldn't get him to out by lifting him up. He was wearing a wide collar and I thought because of the large collar and his stubbornness, it wouldn't work. Someone hit me in the back of the head and told me to lift up higher (higher you expletive) and sure enough, within a few seconds he outed (a badly torn ball I didn't want him to ingest).

Not that I'm suggesting you practice the technique :wave2:, but know what the hell you are doing before you jump in.
Look beyond what your own eyes see
User avatar
maberi
I Save My Empty Calories For The Bottle
 
Posts: 2781
Location: rochester, ny

Postby BigDogBuford » October 29th, 2009, 3:13 pm

I was able to drag the aggressor and smaller dog out the sliding glass door and then slammed the door on her face. I think she was so surprised she just let go! Luckily, at that point there was now a door separating them. It sucked and I had a total asthma attack after so I'm much more strict with the dogs now.
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby Malli » October 29th, 2009, 3:38 pm

maberi wrote:I
I think Michelle's advice about composing yourself for a few seconds before going in is SUPER advice. Sounds crazy to not just rush in when it is happening, but it really is the best thing you can do.


this is true. While I've never broken up a "knock down drag out" fight, I've ended a few "snarky scuffles", and, just the other day at work I broke up a soon-to-be all out fence fight. There were 3 dogs, 1 on one side of the fence and one on the other who were more serious, and one that was kind of just there "for the party". Most dogs at my work don't wear collars so I had to scruff the dog on my side of the fence, I had to do a quick jog to get there, and I think it makes a huge difference if you go in thinking about what you are going to do, "with intention" and a slower steady hand.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07
User avatar
Malli
E-I-E-I-O!
 
Posts: 6341
Location: CANADA EH?

Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 29th, 2009, 4:17 pm

maberi wrote:In my experience (which is very limited so take it with a grain of salt) :wink:, dog fights are VERY different based on the breeds involved.

I think many reasons people suggest grabbing the back legs of dogs in a fight is because most breeds do a lot of biting and re-biting.


I gotta agree with Matt on this one. True APBT's were breed to bite, hold and shake, hence why people say they have a locking jaw. A lot of breeds just bite and re-bite so if you grab the back legs and pull once they re-bite they are off the other dog. Pit bulls will just hold and shake and your pulling can actually do more damage.
Dan+Bec13
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 42
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby airwalk » October 29th, 2009, 4:25 pm

An interesting tidbit I learned in a seminar from Animal Farm Foundation. When they have two dogs out to play, they always carry a can of whipped cream in their pocket. They have found that snarky outbreaks can often be stopped instantly with a well placed stream of whipped cream right in the eyes, nose and mouth. This would undoubtedly not work in an all out fight, but when you catch the snarky they claim this works to distract for just a moment while they get leashes on and dogs separated.

thoughts?
User avatar
airwalk
I live here
 
Posts: 3791
Location: Oregon

Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 4:29 pm

airwalk wrote:This would undoubtedly not work in an all out fight, but when you catch the snarky they claim this works to distract for just a moment while they get leashes on and dogs separated.

thoughts?

That probably would work for the snarky moments - just as loud noises, pepper spray and other things that startle do. If the dogs aren't "into it" breaking the focus of the aggressor is often enough to end things because the non-aggressor isn't into it in the first place.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby BigDogBuford » October 29th, 2009, 4:43 pm

airwalk wrote:An interesting tidbit I learned in a seminar from Animal Farm Foundation. When they have two dogs out to play, they always carry a can of whipped cream in their pocket. They have found that snarky outbreaks can often be stopped instantly with a well placed stream of whipped cream right in the eyes, nose and mouth. This would undoubtedly not work in an all out fight, but when you catch the snarky they claim this works to distract for just a moment while they get leashes on and dogs separated.

thoughts?



Minnie would start snarking at all the other dogs just for a face full of Redi-Whip.... :rolleyes2:
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 29th, 2009, 5:05 pm

Maddie would just sit at your feet and start laping up the whipped cream coming out of the can.......she loooooooooves whipped cream
Dan+Bec13
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 42
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby pocketpit » October 29th, 2009, 6:41 pm

I'm not proud of it but I've been there for my fair share of nasty, full blown dog fights and choking is the only 100% reliable method I've found when working with Pit Bulls. If there's two people involved that are not afraid to jump in, a fight can be stopped very quickly this way and with minimal damage to either participant. I've had to use the method by myself on more than one occasion but of course it took a bit longer and I would definitely reccomend using a barrier to help seperate them if it's available. Depending upon the size of the dogs, keeping them apart after you get them to release their grip is very difficult without one.
And Michelle is right about taking a deep breath and thinking before just jumping in especially if you are alone.
User avatar
pocketpit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1201
Location: WA

Postby airwalk » October 30th, 2009, 1:51 pm

I'm afraid my chunky munkey Scooter would also snark just for a face full :D We do have it here at the shelter and usually try to have it with us when we are doing a dog to dog intro to avoid doing something really big with a citizen in the play yard and having two dog decide to go past snark.
User avatar
airwalk
I live here
 
Posts: 3791
Location: Oregon


Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]

cron