Breaking up Dog Fights

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Postby Michael » October 27th, 2009, 12:07 pm

I appreciate everyone being patient with the new guy. One of the great things about the internet is that it allows anyone with information and skill to have a chance to educate the masses. When I need to learn something about photoshop, basket weaving, Rural Ethiopia or how to install a new sink or something else I'm having trouble with or curious about, I almost invariably go on the internet, and, increasingly, onto YouTube where I can find brilliant, free advice, sometimes from twelve year olds who know how to do certain things better than adults who want to charge me $50 for a book or a DVD.

And yes, you can't trust all the information you get from all these so called internet experts and you should take it all with a grain of salt and use your own judgement.

And I'd like you all, if you would like, to use your own judgement on a video clip I have coming up on dog aggression, dog fighting and how to break up a dog fight, and, more importantly, how to handle the aftermath of the fight.

Here is a screenshot where Jackie Brown gets attacked. You'll see how I deal with the situation.

Thanks and stay tuned!
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Postby mnp13 » October 27th, 2009, 12:31 pm

How did you happen to have a camera handy when your dog got attacked?
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Postby Michael » October 27th, 2009, 12:40 pm

mnp13 wrote:How did you happen to have a camera handy when your dog got attacked?



I'm doing a documentary and on this day, luckily, I had left a camera running in the backyard all morning. The footage goes on for hours, most of it birds chirping . Also, on this day, I had left Jackie alone in the backyard (she was six months old and still a risk to destroy things like the carpet) while the two older males were in the house. In the video clip you see Jackie get all excited as she hears the car come in the driveway. And then I go in the backyard, let the two males out and greet the dogs and start training Jackie Brown. And then Kwame Brown gets jealous and attacks.

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Postby Marinepits » October 27th, 2009, 1:23 pm

How many dogs do you actually have at your house? Ages/sex/breed? I thought you only had the two girls.
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 1:37 pm

Can you elaborate how you dealt with the situation. I am one that needs details. From start to finish.
Did you just grab the other dog around the neck, collar? Was Jackie Brown down because she was being submissive or was just pushed. Where were the other dogs? How would you have handled if all 4 got into it?
Just curious :confused:
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Postby mnp13 » October 27th, 2009, 2:24 pm

Before I post again, I want to make sure that I'm understanding the situation:

Jackie brown was in the back yard, by herself with the other two dogs inside. You came home and let the other two dogs into the back yard with her and then went out and started working with her and the other two were just "hanging out" in the yard in the mean time.

While you were working with Jackie, one of the other two dogs attacked her.

Is that right?
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Postby Michael » October 27th, 2009, 7:35 pm

mnp13 wrote:Before I post again, I want to make sure that I'm understanding the situation:

Jackie brown was in the back yard, by herself with the other two dogs inside. You came home and let the other two dogs into the back yard with her and then went out and started working with her and the other two were just "hanging out" in the yard in the mean time.

While you were working with Jackie, one of the other two dogs attacked her.

Is that right?



Michelle,

The video will answer any questions.

First of all thank you for setting up this website and I'd have my own forum if I was smart enough to set one up, but I truly appreciate you allowing me to borrow yours to introduce this video. I think this is the perfect place for it.

If you are concerned, this was certainly not a staged dog fight. This is a quirky wild type dog who someone else threw away as a puppy seven years ago and who has displayed vicious behavior througout his life and has at one time or another attacked any dog he has lived with. I have handled it all by never looking at his behavior as a "problem" because in the eyes of a dog, it is not a problem. And it's never been a problem for me because I have dealt with even worse aggression in the past. I have also handled it all without any serious injuries occurring, other than the occasional bloody ear or lip.

What you see my do in this video IS risky (the aftermath of the fight) but like I state, it's not a "how to" video, but rather a documentary video of how I did it and how I do it.

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pitbull attacked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obMQTGt6iBk
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Postby mnp13 » October 27th, 2009, 8:01 pm

I didn't ask if it was a staged fight, I asked what the circumstances were. Because if the circumstances were what I posted, then no, it was not staged... but it was basically a situation where you set the dogs up to fail due to poor management.

And then I go in the backyard, let the two males out and greet the dogs and start training Jackie Brown. And then Kwame Brown gets jealous and attacks.


This is a quirky wild type dog who someone else threw away as a puppy seven years ago and who has displayed vicious behavior througout his life and has at one time or another attacked any dog he has lived with


When you have a dog that you know is aggressive and you leave it out loose with other dogs, and then give your undivided attention to another dog - eventually making the aggressive dog jealous enough to attack then the ensuing spat was caused by your mishandling of the dogs.
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Postby amazincc » October 27th, 2009, 8:04 pm

Okay... I don't "get it"... :?

You knowingly let a dog who - in your own words -
has displayed vicious behavior througout his life and has at one time or another attacked any dog he has lived with
out in the yard w/a puppy??? On purpose??? WHY?

I have handled it all by never looking at his behavior as a "problem" because in the eyes of a dog, it is not a problem.

I do have a problem w/that - looks like the puppy got set up. :sad2:


And it's never been a problem for me because I have dealt with even worse aggression in the past. I have also handled it all without any serious injuries occurring, other than the occasional bloody ear or lip.

I bet it's not fun for the dog who receives the injuries. :rolleyes2:

The basket ball thing... what is THAT all about??? I truly don't understand what you're trying to do, other than get some props for yourself on YouTube and knock the Dog Whisperer (whom I am also NOT a fan of).

Personally I think your video smacks of owner/handler irresponsibility in regards to your "pack"... you put your dogs in situations where you could/should expect a fight, and the puppy did get attacked. I find that sad.

It proves nothing to me other than re-enforcing my commitment to crating/rotating IF one of my dogs ever exhibits true DA.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 8:08 pm

So...not only did you allow this to happen due to negligence and bad management...but you allowed this to happen to a PUPPY. :shock: I don't like the idea of this happening to any age of dog, but to have it happen to a puppy, who is still in the prime socialization stage of life... :nono: ay-yi-yi...I try and have my puppies experience as much as possible for the first year, but I also try and protect them from horrible things happening to them...so they in turn don't grow up with major issues. :(
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 8:16 pm

I agree with Christine and Erin. Complete set up to me. :nono:
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Postby amazincc » October 27th, 2009, 8:18 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:I try and have my puppies experience as much as possible for the first year, but I also try and protect them from horrible things happening to them...so they in turn don't grow up with major issues. :(


*sigh*
I'm pretty sure part of Micks DA was created after he got attacked by off-leash dogs twice as a puppy... he definitely developed an "a good offense is the best defense" attitude afterwards. :neutral:
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Postby mnp13 » October 27th, 2009, 8:26 pm

Ok, I watched the video...

First of all, that was far from a fight. Like light years from a fight. That was a snarky, bratty dog bullying a puppy. You grabbed the bully, separated them, then brought him back outside a minute later.

Snarky crap like that happens all the time at my house, it ends on its own most of the time if we tell them to knock it off. In August, when Ruby had stolen a bag of treats fair and square and Inara decided to share in the booty. It actually sounded a lot like that, and I got upstairs, picked Ruby up off of her and that was the end of it. We all hung out in the living room for the rest of the day, (no basketball needed.)

I have no idea what your point was with the basketball. You didn't return to what you were doing previously, training Jackie, you just let them back out in yard and bounced the basketball around.

REAL dog fights don't just end because you pick one dog up. If Jackie had really been into that fight, 2:29 would have been footage of her latching on to the other dog's stomach and there would have been NOTHING you could have done to stop her from doing it.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 8:48 pm

Where did you see the video? I'm confused now...I can't find it. :confused:

I'm pretty sure part of Micks DA was created after he got attacked by off-leash dogs twice as a puppy... he definitely developed an "a good offense is the best defense" attitude afterwards.


A few weeks ago, I worked with a woman with a Dogue de Bordeaux that had been attacked (in a dog park no less...) twice and had taken an offense attitude towards all dogs. The owner had a pretty good relationship with the dog (who is only about 1 year old)...but couldn't handle him when he decided to try and eat a chihuahua or two. We worked on some "There's a Dog in Your Face!" aka "Incoming" and "Look At That" from Control Unleashed...and she reported back today. The big boy now doesn't even curl a lip or raise his hackles...he's rather unconcerned by dogs now. She said that they encountered an aggressive lab today, and they walked right past without incident.

He's not going to be going to dog parks anymore...but can have supervised playdates with appropriate partners (he and Gibbs were best buddies last time we met). This could have turned out much worse.

I just bring this up because no matter the breed, it's really easy to mess up puppies...and having them get attacked can really scar them (in so many ways). I am always really careful about puppies that are in my care, be it foster, client or my own.
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Postby amazincc » October 27th, 2009, 8:52 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Where did you see the video? I'm confused now...I can't find it. :confused:



pitbull attacked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obMQTGt6iBk

I had to look through the whole post TWICE to find the link to it myself... lol
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 9:13 pm

Watched it, thanks...now I'm even more confused than ever.

I have no idea what your point was with the basketball. You didn't return to what you were doing previously, training Jackie, you just let them back out in yard and bounced the basketball around.


He was using body language to move the dogs around...and to instill some form of fear in them. See Jackie's body language back to him? Nervous, calming signals (lip licking, averting eyes, etc), low body ready to flee. She just got attacked, now dad comes back out with some strong body language, and she's completely unsure of what in the hell happened. :bs: Poor girl.

And dogtv...why are you labeling Kwame a "wild dog"...seriously or being funny? :confused:
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 27th, 2009, 9:32 pm

Yeah, I kept waiting on a dog fight to happen, but it didn't. Poor Jackie was jumped out of nowhere due to your own ego, quite frankly. You know that Kwame is jealous and has potential for aggression, but you felt it necessary to test the limits and use training treats and lavish attention on Jackie in front of him. When one of your dogs gets seriously injured, you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

I've seen snarks worse than that. Hell, the first time Michelle and I tried to introduce Inara to Riggs, it was much worse than that, though just as quick. And I can tell you that if either of us had tried to lift one of the dogs up, the other dog would have gone straight for the dog in the air. Even though Inara is pretty soft, I don't doubt that she would have jumped for Riggs if Michelle had picked him up because she was hyped up.

You're fortunate that Jackie seems very mild-mannered and willing to cede to Kwame. But if you keep allowing irresponsible situations like that to happen, Jackie may lose her tolerance. And picking Kwame up won't save him from her then.
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Postby mnp13 » October 27th, 2009, 9:46 pm

oh, and by the way....

Pit Bull is TWO WORDS

Just say'n :|
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Postby SvcDogSawyer » October 27th, 2009, 10:39 pm

So...are you using the basketball to scare the dogs apart? I really don't get it.

That little tiff could have been avoided if you knew how to read the signals the dogs were giving. If you knew it was something that might happen, why did you put them all out together? It seems awfully unfair to put the dogs in that situation in the first place.

You are not being very clear with your explaination. You mentioned you were a dog expert, how did you come to that conclusion(other than living in a multiple dog household for 14 years)?
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Postby DemoDick » October 27th, 2009, 10:43 pm

Please stop calling yourself an expert, trainer, or behaviorist. You are none of these things. You are fumbling your way around the internet in a disorganized and embarassing manner. You're dogs are going to get hurt because of your ignorance, and I can only hope that people who come to your website see your bullshit for what it is, as our members here have done.

Calling oneself an expert without the know-how to back it up is negligent, reckless, and irresponsible. What's even more baffling is your arrogant insistence that you are "the smartest person in the room," when you are clearly not.

Stop. Just stop, now, before you end up with a dead or injured dog and stitches in your own hide.

Cesar will continue to dominate not because he's right. But because you don't have the tools to even begin to challenge him.

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