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Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby Mike A. » April 9th, 2006, 8:47 pm

Is anyone in this board from Fl. other than myself? Also if I was to host a Personal Protection tournament in kissimmee Fl. how many people would have an interest in competed in that event. All breeds will be welcomed, as well as all types of Handlers as well lol..... Neither Dog nor Handler will be disappointed in what they encounter.
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Postby PittieLove » April 10th, 2006, 9:42 am

i would like to go!! Im in Orlando FL
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Postby Mike A. » April 11th, 2006, 10:44 am

Are you doing any type of bite work with your dog at this time?
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Postby PittieLove » April 11th, 2006, 2:23 pm

no, i never have. But im sure he would do it.
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Postby Big_Ant » April 24th, 2006, 6:34 pm

PittieLove wrote:no, i never have. But im sure he would do it.


I would highly recommend against this for you and your dog!

After hearing your stories of your dog and his behavior I don't think you need to involve him in anything remotely close to this, EVER, not after training him, etc. etc.

You are too young, blow off advice when given, and don't seem to worry about the stuff that needs to be addressed, and are worried about his weightpulling and sporting instead.

I know this might sound harsh, but I told you the exact same thing on PBF, and you blew me, along with other knowledged members, off and then when you got banned from their, you made it seem like it was all their fault. I don't know who was at fault, don't care, but you have other things to be worrying about and addressing rather than looking into bitesport and weightpulling.

You are still young and have alot to learn, take your time, work on your current dog, and maybe in the future you'll be able to find a dog that is more suited to this and if you are still interested, then by all means go for it.

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Postby PittieLove » April 25th, 2006, 6:34 pm

Big_Ant wrote:
PittieLove wrote:no, i never have. But im sure he would do it.


I would highly recommend against this for you and your dog!

After hearing your stories of your dog and his behavior I don't think you need to involve him in anything remotely close to this, EVER, not after training him, etc. etc.

You are too young, blow off advice when given, and don't seem to worry about the stuff that needs to be addressed, and are worried about his weightpulling and sporting instead.

I know this might sound harsh, but I told you the exact same thing on PBF, and you blew me, along with other knowledged members, off and then when you got banned from their, you made it seem like it was all their fault. I don't know who was at fault, don't care, but you have other things to be worrying about and addressing rather than looking into bitesport and weightpulling.

You are still young and have alot to learn, take your time, work on your current dog, and maybe in the future you'll be able to find a dog that is more suited to this and if you are still interested, then by all means go for it.

- Anthony


i stil dont know what u want me to work on. Thats why i got banned, everyone on their told me "WORK ON UR DOG" and when i said "like how?" they had to answer and got mad at me. SO what am i working on with my dog, i have of yet to figure it out.
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Postby Miakoda » April 25th, 2006, 9:53 pm

PittieLove, when people tell you to "work on your dog" they don't mean take a dog that's already bitten someone & has shown aggression to other people on different accounts & do bite work with it. ESPECIALLY a "pit bull".

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Postby Mike A. » April 29th, 2006, 4:28 pm

Pettie, what better then a dog who has a will to plz you. No matter what people think you know your dog. Bite work doesn't mean making her crazy. those who say this either have a dog with no drive or lack the knowledge on what personal protection is really all about. Think about what i just stated a bodyguard has to able to around people cause you are around people most of the time.



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Postby cheekymunkee » April 29th, 2006, 5:22 pm

Pettie, what better then a dog who has a will to plz you.


Even if that dog which is being called a pit bull pleases you by biting a human being? No one is saying it will make the dog crazy to be protection trained but WHY would you want to provide bite training to a dog who already has no qualms about biting a human? I know nothing of this dog other that what has been stated here but it does not sound like a good training prospect to me. Biting a human and acting aggressivly towrds humans does not sound to me like the will to please, it sounds to me like an unsound pit bull. Wouldn;t a perfectly sound pit bull be a better choice than one who appears to not be?
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Postby Miakoda » April 30th, 2006, 1:45 am

Mike A., the dog in question has already bitten someone for no other reason than outright aggression & desire to do so & has acted very aggressively time & time again towards other people in general. The owner has previously stated that she hates the dog & wants to euthanize it & so on & so forth & other than that, she has done little to correct the dog's behavior. This dog needs another permanent option besides being trained as a protection dog.....the dog is already a walking timebomb & next week's headline.
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Postby Mike A. » April 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm

Okay, upon an evaluation of the dog I would be able to determine the level of aggression. I strongly believe that aggression can be controlled, the dog will understand when to use that aggression toward a potential threat. This is what I call corrective training/or modified behavior training. I have seen these kind of cases before. Their is different kinds of ways dog show his/her aggression most of the time is fear or just lack of socialization with the general public. If not the dog is simply a hoot and might just be the genetic background. If she hated the dog she would have not made inquiry about fixing the problem.


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Postby Mike A. » April 30th, 2006, 9:13 pm

cheeymunkee the reason why I have not replied to your comment is simple. Don't take this personal, I just feel you need to do more research on what Personal Protection Training is really about. I strongly believe that you do not have the simpliest of clues of that is all about. Now I am saying this based on what you said earlier, but then again you are entitled to your own opinion.



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Postby cheekymunkee » April 30th, 2006, 10:10 pm

Well Mike, that is why I was asking you questions. I'm sorry you took offense to them. I won't bother asking you again. However, you may want to take heed what the people on this thread have said about this dog & the behaviours it has exhibited in the past. But, since you seem to know more about this dog in the 3 posts you have read on this thread than the two people who have known this poster & her dog for a few months I wish you luck. I may not know a lot about PP training but I do know it takes more than just a dog that is willing to bite a human.
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Postby Mike A. » April 30th, 2006, 11:49 pm

I say that 90% of dog aggression come from not being socialize with the human race. In a pack when a outsider come into the pic. members of that pack 9 out of 10 will attack to fend off the stranger. For 100 of yrs. people bread pits for fighting that is why they naturally are aggressive towards other dog and anmials. I believe that with behavior training you can break the dog dwn to use the aggression when it has to, and later dwn the road use the pp to let the dog know that it can bite when its told to. A pp dog doesn't have to friendly, but it has to tolerate people when they are around that is called control. An example: I took Molly(american bulldog) to the park so I pick up a game of basketball as I was playing a drunk guy came asking for cigarette. I said that don't smoke he started to come close and the dog did not like that. Molly started to shake cause she want to get at him but remained at a dwn stay and him seeing that he backed up and left. Not because she is my dog but she will bite someone in a heart beat. That came with lots of work and correction so that she can control her emotions, there was couple of steps that I as a handler/owner had to take in order to fix the situtation. The moral is that if you don't put the dog in senarios like that it will never learn and you as the handler will never find out, and you can never fix the problem. A pp dog doesn't always has to bite to protect the handler. I would show a demo c.d but I do not know how to post it.



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Postby Miakoda » May 1st, 2006, 2:32 am

Well, being someone who owns APBTs & takes crap everyday for it, I am STRONGLY against taking a walking time bomb who has already shown his ability to attack people unprovoked & "training" him to do so while obediently listening & obeying the command. The dog is a genetic mistake & by allowing this behavior & encourage it more, we will only endu up creating next months headline into next weeks headline.

edit: we just have very very very different views on what to do with "pit bulls" who are truly threats to people....I prefer to eliminate the threat while obviously you prefer to play with it
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Postby Maryellen » May 1st, 2006, 8:09 am

a pit bull that has bitten people should NOT be doing PP work.. period.. any genetically unstable dog of any breed who has bitten people should NOT be doing PP work... you cant take an unsound dog and do PP work, that is like giving a license to someone to kill whoever they want with no penalties. its just WRONG.
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 1st, 2006, 8:54 am

:o
Molly started to shake cause she want to get at him but remained at a dwn stay and him seeing that he backed up and left. Not because she is my dog but she will bite someone in a heart beat.



Sorry, I cannot imagine having a dog who actively wants to bite a person (not a suit) in a park off leash or tethered away from me. Like leaving a gun on the kid's slide. What if the drunk had tripped and fallen on the dog or near it?!

:shock:
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Postby Mike A. » May 1st, 2006, 12:16 pm

So then you say that the dog will never be able control herself not to bite? cause if so they are other cases with the same issue, and if a good trainer wouldn't be able to findout what the problem is and try to fix it I would be out of business. Now, question wre did the dog bite person in the general public or at her home?
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 1st, 2006, 12:39 pm

The problem is that the trainer only guides the process. Most of the actual training is done at home with the owners, unless they are leaving the dog with you for several weeks. Even then, the dog may and probably will revert back to old behaviors if the owner is the one enabling them.

So anyone who is attempting to teach does so knowing they only can make suggestions and demonstrate the techniques. It is ultimately up to the owner to impliment them.

I have had a client who looked me in the eye and swore she understoond what i was telling her, she would even repeat it verbatum and demonstrate on her dog, then she would go home and do the exact opposite. Her dog would improve by the end of class, then be back at square one the next week. Drove me bonkers. People sometimes are not reliable.
Sometimes it is better to put the dog down than risk the owners not learning, when a mistake is a bite.

Not saying every case, or even this one, but when you have an aggressive pit, and an owner who seems to never get anywhere in handling that aggression, then you really have to think about this.

Encouraging an owner who cannot control a dog who aggressively bites to do PP work seems to me a recipe for disaster. Only solid dogs and solid owners should ever get into PP work. That any layperson should be able to see.
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Postby mnp13 » May 1st, 2006, 12:42 pm

dogcrazyjen wrote:Encouraging an owner who cannot control a dog who aggressively bites to do PP work seems to me a recipe for disaster.


I agree with this statement. The aggression is the first thing to address. Once obedience is solid and the 'issues' are under control the dog could be evauated for PP training.

I'm sure Mike and his mentor Nelson would never do PP training with a dog that was not completely under control and responsibly handled.
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