cheekymunkee wrote:I have not read all of the posts in this thread because they are too long and I am too tired. BUT I see a HUGE difference in opinion & frankly, it is because we own pit bulls and you own a boxer mix. Step into my world for a few days & you will wholeheartedly change your mind. I have 2 pit bulls & one spitz mix. All have been heavily socialized on leash & in controlled environments ( friends dogs, no dog parks for ANY of my dogs, bull breeds or not). I do consider Munkee to be a breed ambassador, he is not locked away, he is not hidden from the public, he is just not allowed (nor does he WANT to) play with other dogs. He is around people all of the time, those he knows, those he does not. He loves all of them & they love him. I care about the way he is with HUMANS of all ages & sizes, I could care less if Rover likes him or not. He is from a cold breeding, he has been to numerous dog training classes & has met many many dogs. He was always fine with all but the pushy ones, he got snarky but that was the extent of it. He was that way for 3 years.
He is now almost 10 and will kill or try to kill ANY dog who crosses his path save my spitz mix and he wold kill her in a heart beat if he didnt know I would take his head off. That is not my fault, that is not his fault, that is his heritage, his genetics, his breed. That is who he is, that is what the TRUE pit bull is. Yes, many true pit bulls get along with other dogs, some get along with all dogs, but it is NOT to be expected. If you are going to own this breed you need to know and be prepared for the fact that this dog could possibly, without much warning ( unless you know what to look for) go from playing chase with Fluffy to snapping her neck. A water dish can start a fight, a blade of grass, a look, you name it. My dogs have scuffled over air.
I have owned this breed ALL of my life, I know this breed like the back of my hand. I know what they are capable of and I do not want to hear that 51 years of knowledge & experience is bunk. I do not perpetuate stereotypes, I tell the TRUTH about this breed & I do not sugar coat it. People denying their dogs breed are what have gotten the breed to the point it is now. People who deny that their dog can and will kill another dog and not even think twice about it. Frankly, those are the people who I wish would leave my breed alone. You can believe what ever you want to believe, that does not make it so. My dogs are NOT problem dogs and I resent the implication that they are, they are American Pit Bull Terriers in EVERY since of the words.
I represent my dogs, I fight for my dogs, I have been fighting BSL for many years & I continue to be active in the fight. I also fight irresponsibility with this breed. THAT is why this message board and others like it exist, to teach people HOW to be responsible pit bull owners. We have to be BETTER owners than the average Joe because of our breed of choice. I dont want every Tom, Dick & Harry to own this breed, I would prefer that 99% of the peopel who own it now get another breed & leave this one alone, they are the people who have fucked it up for the responsible people. People who think this breed is just like a poodle or a spaniel or whatever other breeds there are. People who do not understand their dog have screwed it up for the rest of us and I am not going to join in on that little melee or let it take place on this board. I am sorry but I will not let someone who has VERY limited knowledge and experience with this breed tell me that I am 'doing it wrong'. I raise my dogs the way my father & my uncles taught me how to raise it, they apparently knew what they were doing & quite frankly, so do I.
I happen to like my dogs just the way they are, I do not care if someone thinks they are are problem because they are who they are. I KNOW better, I KNOW what an amazing breed it is and I KNOW what it is capable of. You need to understand this breed a lot better before you advocate changes
Megumi-Oni wrote:Am I the only one who finds it humorous that someone would quote 'Murphy's Law' in a scientific context? I guess I didn't preserve that context, but I'm not going to govern myself according to the paranoid cynicism Murphy's Law is based upon.
Megumi-Oni wrote:I must assert that just because you don't agree with my opinion or approach, doesn't mean I don't 'understand the ramifications' of my opinion or approach. Just because my opinion isn't popular, or doesn't match yours, does not in any way mean you have a right to think, or smoothly imply, that I'm ignorant... or by your words "don't appear to fully understand what you're dealing with."
Megumi-Oni wrote:Even the meanest dog can be trained out of their instinct to kill.
Megumi-Oni wrote:So, with that said it seems like many of you seem to be convinced that you want to live your life with your dog in such a way that you succumb to the paranoid sensationalism created in the media from irresponsible dog ownership. The aftermath of the human element when we 1) do stupid things with the more aggressive breeds and 2) allow ourselves to be drawn to fear-mongering media reporting techniques. I don't choose to allow the bad PR to dictate how I socialize my animal, simply put. If that's how you want to operate... go for it. You have that right. But to imply I'm being irresponsible because I don't agree with your motivations is simply wrong.
Megumi-Oni wrote:It's up to the responsible owner to make sure the bad situations are avoided, but that's no reason to stay at home. I believe the reward of a more compassionate and understanding community is greater than just being able to own a dog at home. I believe the reward of lifting the 'aggressive breeds list' from insurance companies and leasing companies so that I can get an apartment anywhere starts with letting the community see how my dog interacts, etc. If we're going to make change, we can't sit back and stay within our own little walls. We have to reach out to the community.
Megumi-Oni wrote:I believe in the progress I'm making, and I believe you should recognize that my efforts are in good faith and have yielded positive results for everyone.
Megumi-Oni wrote:But, when we can all step outside our own fear and paranoia, we can all begin to make the same progress with other animals.
pitbullmamaliz wrote:As I am unable to pinpoint exactly what type/style of dog sets her off, she doesn't get to meet other dogs out in public. Does that make me a bad owner because I don't train train train to the point where simple obedience over-rides her anxiety? Maybe.
Megumi-Oni wrote:I see little difference in taking a dog to a park versus having play dates with different owners / dogs in a back yard someplace. In fact, by your argument, a dog park is a GREAT way to get something new each time and do exactly what you suggest!
Megumi-Oni wrote:As far as our park... it isn't a run of the mill park. There aren't a whole lot of things to have a dispute over. Water dishes? There's at least 9 of them. And I've never seen any animal get territorial over one of them in the months I've been going. Tennis balls? Ok. There's a million of them. Again, never seen a dispute over one. It's basically just a big, open area with a fence around it. And each person using the park knows the rules, and those rules are there to protect the animals and their owners. We all understand that.
Freaking excellent post.
(mods-See how nice I'm being this time? I didn't act anything like I do in real life. I deserve a cookie. )
TheRedQueen wrote:I see little difference in taking a dog to a park versus having play dates with different owners / dogs in a back yard someplace. In fact, by your argument, a dog park is a GREAT way to get something new each time and do exactly what you suggest
Hmmm...well, for starters, I don't have upwards of 50-60 dogs in my backyard when I have playdates. Yeah, most of the dog parks around here are less than an acre (usually smaller than my backyard which is 1/2 acre)...and on any given day there might be 75 or so dogs running around willy-nilly. Not exactly the same thing as having a few hand-picked dogs and friends over for playtime.
The dog beach in our area...overrun with dogs and owners on the weekends...crazy...just shoulder to shoulder on a small strip of beach.
Just for the record...I don't use dog parks, and I don't have APBTs...my guys are mainly herders...and they HATE dog parks.
cheekymunkee wrote:I have owned this breed ALL of my life, I know this breed like the back of my hand. I know what they are capable of and I do not want to hear that 51 years of knowledge & experience is bunk.
...I don't want every Tom, Dick & Harry to own this breed, I would prefer that 99% of the peopel who own it now get another breed & leave this one alone, they are the people who have fucked it up for the responsible people. People who think this breed is just like a poodle or a spaniel or whatever other breeds there are. People who do not understand their dog have screwed it up for the rest of us and I am not going to join in on that little melee or let it take place on this board. I am sorry but I will not let someone who has VERY limited knowledge and experience with this breed tell me that I am 'doing it wrong'.
mnp13 wrote:Megumi-Oni wrote:I must assert that just because you don't agree with my opinion or approach, doesn't mean I don't 'understand the ramifications' of my opinion or approach. Just because my opinion isn't popular, or doesn't match yours, does not in any way mean you have a right to think, or smoothly imply, that I'm ignorant... or by your words "don't appear to fully understand what you're dealing with."
Though I hate to jump ahead, in a later post you sayMegumi-Oni wrote:Even the meanest dog can be trained out of their instinct to kill.
DemoDick wrote:There have been some really excellent, rational posts in this thread clearly illustrating why dog parks are a bad idea and especially so for Pit Bulls. I suspect however, that they are going to probably fall on deaf ears. The OP appears to be a "believer," and no amount of good, solid information based on practical experience is going to tear down that particular wall. She believes in what she is doing, is completely convinced she is correct, and refuses to even consider the possibility that she is wrong, despite decades of experience to the contrary laid out right here in front of her.
Hey, if you want to argue that boa constrictors can be "trained" to socialize with rodents, that's cool. But you might want to listen to people who own and live with the things before you act condescendingly towards them. Besides, condescension only works when one knows what they're talking about.
(mods-See how nice I'm being this time? I didn't act anything like I do in real life. I deserve a cookie. )
Demo Dick
Megumi-Oni wrote:You're assuming much here, my friend. I usually don't see more than a dozen dogs at a time at this park. And, if there are too many, I don't go. Again, you're assuming much without regard to what may actually be the case, and that by definition, is ignorance.
Furthermore, my dog park (as commented on SPBR) is NOT 60-70 dogs running around willy nilly as they say. It's maybe a dozen, max. And when there's too many, I leave. SO, fundamentally, it is NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING A PLAY DATE IN YOUR BACK YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
furever_pit wrote:Doing obedience in a public setting, like a park, is also a great way to represent the breed.
JM2C.
There have been some great posts in this thread!
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